CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[eyesonly]

The measurement of the remaining gas was also taken into account and was consistent with the distance to Port Perry and return. The problem with that is that it was known that Liz had used an ATM earlier the afternoon of the 19th. Did she put some gas in with that money? Did the person who removed the money add fuel from a Jerry can? Was that actually the reason the car was parked at Haugens, and the driver had walked across the intersection to a nearby gas station to put gas in a Jerry can, and that's why the guy at Haugens never saw a driver?[/QUOTE/]

EB's mom filled up her car the day before and did some running around for the work she was doing at the house. She didn't use that much gas so there would have been more than enough gas to go to pt perry and back if they wanted to and no need for a Gerry can.

 

[eyesonly]

I really hope someone has some information about what was found on the outside of the car. ?

Pretty sure this is in the book Snively, do you have the book? Maybe it's not all in the book, will try and find that out for you.

 

[Snively]

My idea with the Jerry can or Liz topping up the tank was that I think the police were limiting their search to within range of Port Perry only. There was easily enough gas to get to Port Perry and back but did somebody add gas to confuse the distance the police would estimate?

 

[kemo]

The DD JE (Haugens) sightings are crucial to the whole case. Without DD putting the Tercel, with RB driving, near Pt. Perry on Friday June 22, there is no case against RB. If JE can put the Tercel at Haugen's on Wednesday June 20, that would give RB a solid alibi. It would seem the defense should have been able to put the case away with what they had. NCTM doesn't explain how the defense played this situation. To me, the big mystery is how the Crown managed to get a conviction.

Does anyone know the story of how JE was able to recall the "nautical" (foam anchor) key chain? If he just happened to remember that he had seen it in the dumpster when he was being interviewed, and there had been no media reporting of it, it would make this sighting very credible. In light of all the hanky pinky that has gone on during the investigation, I'm real skeptical.

 

[eyesonly]

DD's sighting as it pertains to RB is totally bogus. If you put any stock whatsoever into his sighting you need to take his original report which was called in on July 1st if I recall correctly. He went through at least 3 different versions by the time he got to trial. First was a blond guy with a moustache, then after police contacted him months later and questioned him it changed to dirty blond no facial hair and by the time trial came he pointed out RB as the driver of the car. RB was med to dark brown hair with no facial hair.
When LE got a hold of DD, they did their dirty work and walked him right into the story they wanted. Would love to hear how DD feels today about what he did.

 

[eyesonly]

The DD JE (Haugens) sightings are crucial to the whole case. Without DD putting the Tercel, with RB driving, near Pt. Perry on Friday June 22, there is no case against RB. If JE can put the Tercel at Haugen's on Wednesday June 20, that would give RB a solid alibi. It would seem the defense should have been able to put the case away with what they had. NCTM doesn't explain how the defense played this situation. To me, the big mystery is how the Crown managed to get a conviction.

Does anyone know the story of how JE was able to recall the "nautical" (foam anchor) key chain? If he just happened to remember that he had seen it in the dumpster when he was being interviewed, and there had been no media reporting of it, it would make this sighting very credible. In light of all the hanky pinky that has gone on during the investigation, I'm real skeptical.

Maybe Snively can give a better answer about JE and the nautical chain as he has talked to him on a few occasions.
My understanding was at some point, maybe in sept or so of 1990 I believe they parked her car up in that area with the missing poster sign on it to drum up any possible sightings and this is when JE came forward.
I don't doubt his integrity, however it's hard to believe that someone is going to recall such a random event that happened months earlier and on a specific date and time when there was nothing extraordinary that happened for him to lock it into his memory.
But that is absolutely jmo.

 

[Snively]

JE said he remembered the date and the sighting due to some family event taking place around then, which certainly helped him pin it to the 20th. Sorry, I can't recall the exact details of the family event, but it was easy to check back for the date obviously. The Crown definitely tried to get him to change the date he saw the car to the 22nd since it fit their timeline theory better. JE admitted it may have been Friday, but in private he was 90% sure it was the 20th.

The posters and the media coverage were all over the place at the time and this led him to give the police his information. I believe the police were already on to the Port Perry area even before the information from JE and DD. At the time they were looking into PM as another possible suspect. The first PUBLIC search of Port Perry was on November 15th on a tip from the police, but I think the police may have been up there earlier themselves looking into PM, but I can't recall ever seeing any confirmation officially.

I can't recall if the foam anchor key chain was ever listed on the posters, but JE did say he remembered it because the garbage bins were empty the day he saw the car with no driver, and it was the only thing in the bin and clearly stuck out. At one point he thought the car may be stolen, so he did remember the key chain standing out in an empty bin.

Haugens had (I think they still do) a classic car show every Wednesday night, and JE was very cognizant of his restaurant and parking areas for any, uh, funny "paraphernalia" being left behind. Oshawa and Scarborough also had a reputation of being somewhat of a stolen car haven with cars often being driven up on a joy ride and dumped in and around Port Perry so people were always aware of a strange car being left behind.

 

[kemo]

Who is PM?

 

[Snively]

At the first trial it came out that the police didn't know about PM until long after RB had been arrested. I'm not sure if that's entirely true. In any event, PM was checked out by police and they found no evidence that he wasn't at work on the night of the 19th and his fingerprints were not found in the car. After his arrest on another charge, he fled back to Ireland before his court date.

 

[eyesonly]

Who is PM?

Patrick Mahoney

 

[Woodland]

There is a post here a few pages back that the description of the key chain was in the papers long before anyone came forward.

 

[kemo]

There is a post here a few pages back that the description of the key chain was in the papers long before anyone came forward.

This would mean that JE's sighting is tainted. So how did the defense handle this?

 

[Snively]

This would mean that JE's sighting is tainted. So how did the defense handle this?

Why would it mean that JE's sighting is tainted? Lot's of information was floating around at the time, so if you were to cancel out or rule out someones testimony as tainted based on publicly available information, you would have to eliminate an awful lot of witnesses. Using that logic then anyone who claimed to see her car would have to be tainted since it was on every poster and every news broadcast as soon as she was listed as missing.

Some statistics seem to show that only about 25% of witness testimony is even accurate. Take into account how many tips the police get that they have to track down and follow up and then decide what is real and what is fake or inaccurate, and you can see why many jurisdictions don't even attempt to prosecute without a body.

In this case, at least one Crown prosecutor feel the timeline that was presented in court was flat out wrong as well.

 

[eyesonly]

One thing we need to remember is this happened in 1990. Social media was either non existent or in it's infancy. There wasn't information at your fingertips like it is today. I lived not far and just north east of port perry at the time and I hadn't even heard of the case until a flyer came to my door months after June 19th.

So it is plausible that when the news hit port perry that it could have jogged someone's memory. And it is possible that someone like JE may not have had any prior knowledge of the keychain in the news until months later when the flyer got to his attention.

This doesn't mean I am giving or taking away the credit of JE's sighting of the keychain. We just have to remember what it was like back then as compared to today.

 

[kemo]

People notice things that later turn out to be critical leads that enable Law Enforcement to solve crimes.

People also notice things that might be related to a crime but are not, people imagine seeing things that did not happen after learning about crimes and people make stuff up for any number of reasons.

People who really did see something significant will still get some details wrong, embellish other details and misrepresent their degree of certainty.

Further more, it is not that easy for anyone, including a trained professional, to tell if someone is telling the truth. There are plenty of tools available but most are pretty subjective. The best way to establish credibility is for the witness to have seen something that Law Enforcement knew of that had not been reported, i.e. something the witness couldn't have made up. If you don't have something like that, you have to go on gut feeling and you can never be sure.

 

[eyesonly]

My only Christmas wish this year is that Mrs Bain could know that we have never given up and will we never give up searching for her daughter until she is found.

 

[Snively]

I wasn't able to find the information about what was found on the outside of the car. I flipped through the book, but I must be blind and can't find it.

I'm not sure if you know, but I always wondered if anybody ever did any searches off of Sewells Rd. just north of Old Finch Ave. near where the Rouge River crosses under Sewells? There were a couple of areas you could pull off of Sewells and drive along a trail parallel to the river. It's obviously a lot closer, but there was always one other thing that bothered me.

In 1982, almost to the exact day of Liz's disappearance, Christine Prince was abducted, raped and murdered and her body was disposed of at this exact area off of Sewells Rd. with the murder scene a few hundred metres up stream from where her body was found. She had been abducted near Bathurst and St. Clair, and also her wallet was found on the side of the 401 at Meadowvale. In the case of Prince, I don't think this was the first time this person killed someone, and the FBI profile figured there were two people involved. I always wondered if the Prince murder and Liz's disappearance were done by the same person.

 

[JusticeWillBeServed]

Article on Brian King, a private investigator who worked on overturning Baltovich's conviction.

http://www.justmag.ca/spring2015/fea_devotedToJustice_spring2015.html

Robert Baltovich: Wrongly convicted in 1992 and acquitted in 2008 of the murder of his girlfriend Elizabeth Bain. Only in a defence lawyer’s wildest fantasy – or perhaps a John Grisham novel - could the client be vindicated after investigation led to a notorious serial rapist and murderer. However, life can truly prove stranger than fantasy and fiction. By the time of the trial, the defence was able to point the finger at the as yet unidentified “Scarborough Rapist,” as the possible killer. By the time of the appeal, the Scarborough rapist had been identified as none other than Paul Bernardo, one of the most reviled criminals in Canadian history.

“The case of Robert Baltovich really haunted me, especially after the conviction,” King says. “I felt so strongly about the fact that an injustice had been done that I was not going to give up.”

In his own words: “Believe it or not, the Baltovich case continues behind the scenes. My dream is to eventually find the evidence that will prove who killed Elizabeth Bain.”

Hopefully, this will happen.

 

[eyesonly]

25th anniversary a week tomorrow of elizabeth bains disappearance.
We are trying oh so very hard to get everyone closure on this. The
biggest roadblock right now is the police and their unwillingness to
investigate any other truths that would lead them down another path
than RB. In the end, a beautiful young lady is laying somewhere and deserves
to be brought home to her family for final resting and final peace for everyone
involved.
However it seems that egos and reputations take priority over the truth and
human decency.

 

[CanManEh]

you know i dont live far from toronto and the thing that amazes me is how he/she /they hid the body its not like theres alot of bush around that area so who ever did it must have drove quite a distance to have been able to hide her body so well...unless its in someone house till this day but i dont think those are very good odds.