CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

[Lexiintoronto]

Just wondering why the circled timeframe was used. Why: ‘6:00 am Wednesday, June 20th’, instead of Friday, June 22nd at 2:00pm when the car was officially found?

 

[Snively]

View attachment 205414

Just wondering why the circled timeframe was used. Why: ‘6:00 am Wednesday, June 20th’, instead of Friday, June 22nd at 2:00pm when the car was officially found?

Sure does make you think the police knew the car was parked at the location on Wednesday morning. I don't recall the date of that missing poster.

 

[eyesonly]

The first poster that Mr Bain put out on the first weekend, the 23rd to the 24th stated the time frame of Tuesday 4pm - 10pm.
It then changed to Tuesday 4pm - Wed 6am.

The police knew the car was parked there on Wednesday morning from the statements of the 3r owner and secretary on the 22nd.
The three r owner testifies that he got to work by 7:30am Wed morning and noticed the car there.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The first poster that Mr Bain put out on the first weekend, the 23rd to the 24th stated the time frame of Tuesday 4pm - 10pm.
It then changed to Tuesday 4pm - Wed 6am.

The police knew the car was parked there on Wednesday morning from the statements of the 3r owner and secretary on the 22nd.
The three r owner testifies that he got to work by 7:30am Wed morning and noticed the car there.

Just going from memory here, so please correct me if I’m wrong:

I can get stuck on details, but if R.R. (?), former RCMP officer and then-owner of 3R Autobody, spots the vehicle at 7:30 am on Wednesday why isn’t that on the timeline set in stone?

(‘6:00 am’ on the missing posters that were created in late August. Does someone spot the car at 6:00 am?)

O/T, but I was looking at the approximate spot where EB’s car was found. St. Joseph’s, where she and her family attended, is so close it is in clear view (circled).

@eyesonly - Iirc, I believe you previously mentioned the house I’ve indicated with an arrow?



I could be wrong, but wasn’t it owned by RR (3R owner) at the time of EB’s disappearance? And it was sold in July of 1990? Or do I have the wrong house?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Sure does make you think the police knew the car was parked at the location on Wednesday morning. I don't recall the date of that missing poster.

In the text of the poster they reference the beginning of school, so late August is my guess.

 

[BlackCloud]

I think this girl was murdered. I'm pretty sure...they found blood on her car...
Unfortunately I don't believe Canadian police will be able to solve this murder.
I've heard there are many unsolved murders in Canada due to the smart habit they have to destroy all evidence within a few years...

 

[eyesonly]

Lexiintoronto, post: 15432325, member: 41183"]Just going from memory here, so please correct me if I’m wrong:

I can get stuck on details, but if R.R. (?), former RCMP officer and then-owner of 3R Autobody, spots the vehicle at 7:30 am on Wednesday why isn’t that on the timeline set in stone?
------- his name is M.R. and it was Mr. B that was in charge of creating the posters, not the police. We believe that the first poster end time of 10pm Tuesday night and the following posters of 6am Wednesday morning are specific times related to EB's brother MB. He says he left school at 10pm, we believe that he never attended school that night, and 6am is when he says he got home Wednesday morning and his mother also testifies that MB arrived home at 6am Wednesday morning.

(‘6:00 am’ on the missing posters that were created in late August. Does someone spot the car at 6:00 am?)
------- 6am appeared after the first 4-10pm poster that was created the first weekend of the 23rd-24th. So 6am appeared long before late August. There are no reports of anyone spotting the car at 6am as far as we know. The police say that they had a witness who saw the driver parking the car Wednesday morning but they never gave a time and never produced the witness so we believe that was just a red herring ruse.

O/T, but I was looking at the approximate spot where EB’s car was found. St. Joseph’s, where she and her family attended, is so close it is in clear view (circled).
---------- yes it is in a pretty clear view, but the 3r area is still just south enough that it is easily overlooked if you don't know it's there or even if you do. I would say that 80% of the time I've driven west along old Kingston Rd towards the valley, for the sole purpose of this case, that I pass the intersection of OKR and Morrish Rd and miss looking down to the 3r even though I'm actually thinking about it.

@eyesonly - Iirc, I believe you previously mentioned the house I’ve indicated with an arrow?

View attachment 205835

I could be wrong, but wasn’t it owned by RR (3R owner) at the time of EB’s disappearance? And it was sold in July of 1990? Or do I have the wrong house?
-------- yes it was owned by the 3r owner and was sold, I believe, 10 days or so after Liz's disappearance.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Brought this over from the Lisa Maas thread.

A cold-case group that has had some success.

It gives me some hope EB may be found.

A renewed sense of optimism rests on the shoulders of two local men who have set up a non-profit organization called "Please Bring Me Home."

Nick Oldrieve, a one-time youth worker, and Mathew Nopper, a former reporter, have taken on the seven historic missing person files. They follow up on anonymous tips to their website, interview witnesses and have even carried out more than a dozen excavations and searches, aided by volunteer experts in forensics and search and rescue.

Since the Please Bring Me Home website went up three years ago, Nick and Matt have been bombarded with hundreds of tips. Some have been pivotal in “bringing someone home”.

In 2018, an anonymous tip was posted to their website about the mysterious disappearance of 20-year-old Nolan Panchyshyn from Owen Sound. That tip was passed on to police and Nolan’s remains were discovered. Two suspects have since been charged with his murder.

Finding the missing: The cold case hunters bringing closure to families

 

[Track]

Hi Lexiintoronto. Thanks so much for this link! When I read the Lisa Maas crime details, I was struck by a similarity between it & another Ontario cold case (not EB). In both cases, victim I.D. was thrown from the car by the victim's abductor and was found along roadsides. I sent that tip to police and to pleasebringmehome. You have raised an interesting issue here: There is value when info from various citizen sleuth sources is combined. The other 2 murders are probably not connected to EB's disappearance, but we need to keep crowd-sourcing. One never knows where it may lead.

 

[eyesonly]

We are still working very hard to find you Elizabeth Bain.
We have not and will never give up!

 

[Seratonin]

 

[123coldren]

Trying to read between blurry lines, but is there a suggestion here that EB's killer and body, might be closer to home than some might think? imo, speculation.

I can't remember 100% but I remember it being said that they were Catholic in the Catholic religion suicide is a sin and can cause a black mark on the family one of my theories is she committed suicide and the family found her after and staged this whole thing because it's better to have a daughter missing and probably murdered then to have one commit suicide.

 

[123coldren]

Was it ever disclosed if the amount of blood found pointed to a mortal wound ? And was dna run on all the blood samples obviously back then forensics it's not what it is today.

 

[kemo]

Was it ever disclosed if the amount of blood found pointed to a mortal wound ? And was dna run on all the blood samples obviously back then forensics it's not what it is today.

There was quite a bit of blood on the carpet behind the drivers seat. There was no splatter that would indicate she was assaulted in the car. There was also some smeared blood on the door frame that was considered evidence that her body was moved from outside the car to the area between the front and back seats.

The blood in the car was coagulated and partly dried so the amount of blood could not be measured but there was enough to soak through the carpet. Since the attack occurred outside the car, there would be additional blood at the scene of the attack but that has never been found. A adult can survive the loss of up to two pints of

 

[otto]

There was quite a bit of blood on the carpet behind the drivers seat. There was no splatter that would indicate she was assaulted in the car. There was also some smeared blood on the door frame that was considered evidence that her body was moved from outside the car to the area between the front and back seats.

The blood in the car was coagulated and partly dried so the amount of blood could not be measured but there was enough to soak through the carpet. Since the attack occurred outside the car, there would be additional blood at the scene of the attack but that has never been found. A adult can survive the loss of up to two pints of

I haven't followed this at all - just saw it this evening. My first thought was the date, Scarborough, Paul Bernardo, Scarborough Rapist. I read the articles from 2014 where the boyfriend's trial was stopped in part because Bernardo could not be ruled out.

Bernardo grabbed women at bus stops. The car isn't consistent with Bernardo at first. However, reading further that she was injured and put into her car, and that she had met Bernardo through a mutual friend, suggests to me that he is a possibility.

Other than Bernardo and the boyfriend, are there any likely suspects?

 

[123coldren]

My theories are (1.) She killed her self and because it is taboo in the Catholic religion her parents decided it was better to hide the fact my reasons for thinking this is her father came home earlier than planned possibly because her mother called him and she had previously cut her wrists and her journal entries show a girl that struggled with depression and body image and possibly undiagnosed mental health issues . (2.) She was murdered by the Scarborough rapist. (3.) She planned her disappearance planted her own blood and left (this is unlikely but it was a thought that came to my mind with her last journal entry and the fact that she lies about where she would be that day.)

 

[kemo]

This case reminds me of the West Memphis 3 and the Yogurt Shop Murders. People were convicted of the crime yet later pretty well vindicated. The entities that invested and prosecuted them refuse to acknowledge that an error was made and standby the convictions, making no effort to continue the investigation or determine what really happened.

It is most likely that she was murdered that afternoon and her car was used to transport her body but there is very little evidence as to who did it, why or how it all went down.

The prosecution was based primarily on “sightings” of either Liz or her vehicle at certain times and places. There is no forensic evidence or even compelling circumstantial evidence. It is very hard to ascertain the credibility of “ sightings. Anytime there is a high profile case “witnesses” come out if the woodworks. Some are valid, some sincere but not accurate and some just want to be involved.

A baffling case.

 

[eyesonly]

Was it ever disclosed if the amount of blood found pointed to a mortal wound ? And was dna run on all the blood samples obviously back then forensics it's not what it is today.

CFS stated there was about half a pint of blood in the carpet. Not as much as you'd give donating blood.
Dna was run on the samples that weren't contaminated, as per testimony.
Dna was taken from Liz's parents. It was testified to that the blood in the car was a female offspring of Mr and Mrs
Bain.
Because of all the evidence that was suppressed to convict her bf, we don't know for sure if maybe there was some other dna found in the car or blood from another person and they didn't reveal that evidence.

 

[eyesonly]

123coldren wrote "my reasons for thinking this is her father came home earlier than planned"

He did not come home earlier than planned.
It looks like he actually came home later than planned.
His rental car was due back on the 18th, which was his wedding anniversary date.
He didn't drop it off until the 19th early evening at Tampa airport (which he flew in to on the 12th), and then inexplicably made his way out to the home of friends of his wife's, out in St Petersburg FL.
He arrived there around 10pm, slept on their porch for the night and had them drive him to the St Petersburg airport the next morning which was the 20th.

 

[harry poppins]

He didn't drop it off until the 19th early evening at Tampa airport (which he flew in to on the 12th), and then inexplicably made his way out to the home of friends of his wife's, out in St Petersburg FL.
He arrived there around 10pm, slept on their porch for the night and had them drive him to the St Petersburg airport the next morning which was the 20th.

He probably, all of a sudden, needed a phone to use, to have a very long conversation that night, to tell his family members back home, how they should "take care" of a "certain situation"