CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

[Snively]

Your missing my point entirely,

If somebody was to leave her car at a GO Station like you suggest, then maybe LE would begin a more thorough search of the Bain house, something they might have been trying to avoid,

During that search, maybe other "things" or "items" might have been discovered, that somebody was trying to conceal or hide,

Maybe there were blood stains in the house, for an example,

With a crime scene "planted" elsewhere, there is no reason to search the house,

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think you quite follow how the police work. If the person is considered an adult, thus over 18, the police only do a cursory look for a reported disappearance unless they have reason to believe there was serious danger for the person. You just have to look at the Tess Richey incident to see that.

Now if a car is found at a GO Station and if you believe the family was involved, do you think the family would insist she didn't just run away? You would go right along with the idea she ran away and the police would never look in your house.

There are so many runaways and disappearances reported every single day to police agencies all over that adults fall down the list of priorities. That's sad, but that is the reality.

 

[eyesonly]

Thinking of you Elizabeth Bain on this day, the 30th anniversary of your disappearance.

We have not forgotten you and will never give up until you are found.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Does anyone know if anyone in the Bain family has a lawyer or spokesperson etc.? A website or place to contact someone close to the family who might still be pursuing leads or willing to take a question?

 

[eyesonly]

The family had made it very clear that they had accepted EB's disappearance and have all moved on and rebuilt their lives. I received replies from two of the children saying this.
Here is a quote verbatim from EB's sister to myself in 2016
""Lisa has been gone for many years and my family has rebuilt our lives.. we have accepted her disappearance,""

There is no active lawyer and never was as far as known and there wasn't a spokesperson for them either as far as known and if I knew of one I would definitely tell you.

The only people that are pursuing anything to find the truth and EB's whereabouts are myself, JS, and RB himself (that are considered close to this case).

That's as close as you're going to get to anyone who still gives a damn Lexi, in relation to being close to the case. At least as far as I know.

You're welcome to send your lead or question to the TPS and see where that goes.
If there's anything that I can help answer or try to find an answer for you, pm or email me if you want.

As for EB's family, there is no website, I guess you'd just have to phone Mr and Mrs Bain or write them a letter.
Just be careful about causing them to relive very painful memories.

EB isn't even on the TPS website for their cold case missing persons. I've recently sent an inquiry if they would put her up there but have received no response yet.

 

[harry poppins]

Does anyone know if anyone in the Bain family has a lawyer or spokesperson etc.? A website or place to contact someone close to the family who might still be pursuing leads or willing to take a question?

No they do not,

The Bain family will not reply to any inquiries about this case,

All of EB's siblings (PB included, although he was adopted) conveniently packed up, fled the city, and went into hiding, shortly after RB was convicted, any coincidence there?

Time passes, and the "supposed killer" in RB is then proven to be not guilty and acquitted (and rightfully so),

Even after RB is acquitted and set free, the family still do not want the case to be re-opened, or re-investigated.....why not?

Put yourself in their position.....that makes no sense,

So assuming EB was murdered (although still not proven to this day), that means the real killer (assuming they have not passed away) is still out there somewhere,

But the family doesn't seem to want to try to find, or even help find this supposed killer??....again makes no sense,

If somebodies daughter has been missing for 30 years, and never found, dead or alive, why wouldn't the family of that child want the case to be re-opened, and re-investigated?

 

[Snively]

You know why they don't want it re-investigated and the Toronto Police won't list it as a cold case. They believe they got the right guy, but as with all no body cases, far too much was circumstantial. There are a lot of cases they know perfectly well who did it but they know there is no chance for a conviction.

When it comes to cold cases, the Crown won't even take a case to court unless there is DNA evidence and the police won't do more than a cursory read through of a cold case without DNA evidence.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I have been a follower of this case since it happened and a quiet observer on these threads for many years.

I grew up not too far from where EB lived and her disappearance always stuck with me.

I want to thank those of you actively posting for being dedicated to keeping these threads fact-based and victim-friendly, for the sake of EB, RB and especially the Bain family.

Every so often, when a 'new' poster pokes their head in with what sounds like 'inside' info I hope that they will gain the courage to become verified and post what they knew to be true 30 years ago.

A small detail may be all it takes to break this case open.

If this knowledge ends up in resulting having to re-think who the victims are here, then at least EB will have another voice speaking on her behalf. She is, after all, the true victim here and deserves to be represented by someone.

A question for @eyesonly or anyone who may know....was there any SW's issued for 'Spinner's' trailer in the last 5 or so years?

I recall a search of an unnamed 'place of interest' being mentioned many years back but don't recall seeing an update about this....but it is possible I missed seeing it.

JMO

 

[eyesonly]

Bradfordsleuth wrote: A question for @eyesonly or anyone who may know....was there any SW's issued for 'Spinner's' trailer in the last 5 or so years?

No there wasn't.

 

[eyesonly]

You know why they don't want it re-investigated and the Toronto Police won't list it as a cold case. They believe they got the right guy, but as with all no body cases, far too much was circumstantial. There are a lot of cases they know perfectly well who did it but they know there is no chance for a conviction.

When it comes to cold cases, the Crown won't even take a case to court unless there is DNA evidence and the police won't do more than a cursory read through of a cold case without DNA evidence.

Why won't they at least have EB's picture posted on their new missing persons website since the subject of why the file was opened in the first place is still missing.
Putting aside who may or may not have been responsible, there still might be someone who sees it and comes forward with information.
Isn't that the whole idea of them creating their new missing persons unit a couple of years ago.

 

[harry poppins]

You know why they don't want it re-investigated and the Toronto Police won't list it as a cold case. They believe they got the right guy

No,

LE/Toronto Police are just too stubborn to re-investigate it, because they don't want to admit their mistakes, and they don't want to admit that they were wrong about RB, even though it has been PROVEN THAT THEY WERE WRONG,

The family probably don't want the case re-investigated because they are probably afraid that.....eerrr.....uumm.....well, yeah

What harm would there be to leaving the case open for investigation?

 

[harry poppins]

Every so often, when a 'new' poster pokes their head in with what sounds like 'inside' info I hope that they will gain the courage to become verified and post what they knew to be true 30 years ago.

Being, or becoming a verified member does not increase, or decrease, ones knowledge about any case

 

[Snively]

No,

LE/Toronto Police are just too stubborn to re-investigate it, because they don't want to admit their mistakes, and they don't want to admit that they were wrong about RB, even though it has been PROVEN THAT THEY WERE WRONG,

The family probably don't want the case re-investigated because they are probably afraid that.....eerrr.....uumm.....well, yeah

What harm would there be to leaving the case open for investigation?

It wasn't proven they were wrong, it was proven they never had enough to convict. Big difference.

 

[eyesonly]

Our justice system was never set up as a fair system to an accused.
It was set up with the absolute intentions for the gov't to have a landslide advantage.
The biggest farce and wool pulled over our eyes is our jury system. They sell this system as the jury being your peers so to speak.
But what it is most all of the time is members of the public who are basically retarded idiots in their minds.
Average people who don't have a clue about the law, or the verbiage of the law. And in this respect is how they've set up the arrest and trial part of the system.
There is no such thing in our justice system as innocent until proven guilty and never has been. That's all been a sale of goods to our psychology.
Here's the reality of how the system has been set up to affect our subconscious minds.
1) the police arrested the person. They wouldn't do that unless they had evidence the person is guilty.
2) the person is in a "prisoner's" box. That wouldn't happen if the person was innocent.
3) this trial must be costing a lot of money. There's no way the gov't/crown would go ahead and be spending this kind of time and money unless they really believed and had evidence of the person's guilt.
4) the crown would have seen the person's innocence had the police missed it. Surely both couldn't be wrong.

These are the subconscious thoughts and images that our system was designed to instill in our minds so the "innocence until proven guilty" moniker actually becomes "guilty until I see clear proof the person's innocent".

Notice how it is "guilty" or "not guilty" rather than "guilty" or "innocent".
Despite what you may think that "not guilty" means innocent, it really doesn't or they would have just put the word innocent instead of not guilty.
The term "not guilty" allows the gov't the advantage to keep the case closed at their will because all it means in the justice system is that the gov't lost the trial, not that they had the wrong person.

 

[eyesonly]

Found EB on this site and she's on the doenetwork site as well as per the link when you click on the file number.
Toronto homicide has their number listed to contact.
So why not put EB up on their TPS missing persons site as well?

Missing Adults Search Results – Ontario's Missing Adults

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Being, or becoming a verified member does not increase, or decrease, ones knowledge about any case

It could add credibility to information that is being posted/shared here in a manner that appears to be more than just an opinion, or a theory.

If the right pair of eyes sees the right piece of information, 'cold cases' can change to 'active' with just one tip.

Especially if the tip comes from someone who knew EB and any other people close to this case 30 years ago.

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It could add credibility to information that is being posted/shared here in a manner that appears to be more than just an opinion, or a theory.

If the right pair of eyes sees the right piece of information, 'cold cases' can change to 'active' with just one tip.

Especially if the tip comes from someone who knew EB and any other people close to this case 30 years ago.

JMO

I have always hoped a VI would participate in this thread. I’ve followed a couple of threads here with a VI and the police and some journalists monitored, and sometimes participated, in the discussion. Just as you suggested.

One member here actually accurately suggested where one victim (Jeffrey Boucher) could be found, based on a past case they followed. It was uncanny.

The difference might be that in the other threads the main focus was on finding the victim. Maps, SAR knowledge, locals familiar with the area who could search, and so on, made it so anyone could participate.

This thread can be polarizing because it is often about suspects—and there has only ever been one suspect named by LE—and he was ultimately found not guilty.

EB’s car was the greatest source of hard evidence. I haven’t heard of a case before where the victim’s car was used to likely transport the remains and then the car was RETURNED back to the area where the victim’s car was last seen. Close to her house. Steps away from her family church. Right across from an active auto body shop that was owned by a former RCMP officer...

And they reversed the car in, leave it in reverse, likely wipe their prints but not the blood evidence...drives me batty—why there?

And could the evidence photos be analyzed again? We have 3o more years of knowledge.

Please, TPS cold case squad, open this case up to fresh eyes. For example, Criminologist Mike Arntfield and his students could be very useful and they’ve had success.

ETA: grammar. And how do we know for sure gas wasn’t siphoned out of her car by the killer or someone else (unrelated to the killing), explaining the fuel level?

/end of rant

 

[harry poppins]

I haven’t heard of a case before where the victim’s car was used to likely transport the remains and then the car was RETURNED back to the area where the victim’s car was last seen. Close to her house.

Simple explanation really,

Maybe the killer or killers lived close by, and they needed a way to get home.

After disposing of a body (I can only assume) the suspect or suspects would have some form of evidence on their bodies or clothing. Skin fibers, hair fibers, etc etc.

So maybe they wouldn't want to use ANOTHER vehicle, or their OWN vehicle to get back home, or they would be contaminating a second vehicle with evidence.

So maybe they dump the body, drive the car back, and park it within a distance that the killer or killers can walk home, without the fear of contaminating another vehicle, or their own vehicle.

If EB had ever been inside the killers home (while alive), then the killer or killers wouldn't have to worry about contaminating their own home, because evidence of EB (skin fiber, hair fibers, etc etc) would already be present in that house/home.


A second explanation would be, maybe the vehicle never even left that area, and maybe EB is much closer to home then a lot of people think.

Maybe the car only traveled to the tennis courts/UOT and a few other places within the area.

The sightings of the car on the 401, or in Port Perry area were never 100% confirmed.

In either case, my belief is the killer or killers walked home after parking the car.

And they reversed the car in, leave it in reverse, likely wipe their prints but not the blood evidence...drives me batty—why there?

If the killer, or killers, were somebody who had driven that vehicle in the past, they would have no reason or need to wipe their finger prints,

Their finger prints would already be all over the vehicle, prior to the incident



.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Naturally, I forgot my point: having a verified VI draws often draws attention from media and the police. It might spark change.

In order for the media to cover this story again, they would likely want fresh information that moves the story forward.

Open the case, the media will follow, and new leads might come in.

My small hope would be that EB’s family might participate, but I completely understand why they would not.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I have always hoped a VI would participate in this thread. I’ve followed a couple of threads here with a VI and the police and some journalists monitored, and sometimes participated, in the discussion. Just as you suggested.

One member here actually accurately suggested where one victim (Jeffrey Boucher) could be found, based on a past case they followed. It was uncanny.

The difference might be that in the other threads the main focus was on finding the victim. Maps, SAR knowledge, locals familiar with the area who could search, and so on, made it so anyone could participate.

This thread can be polarizing because it is often about suspects—and there has only ever been one suspect named by LE—and he was ultimately found not guilty.

EB’s car was the greatest source of hard evidence. I haven’t heard of a case before where the victim’s car was used to likely transport the remains and then the car was RETURNED back to the area where the victim’s car was last seen. Close to her house. Steps away from her family church. Right across from an active auto body shop that was owned by a former RCMP officer...

And they reversed the car in, leave it in reverse, likely wipe their prints but not the blood evidence...drives me batty—why there?

And could the evidence photos be analyzed again? We have 3o more years of knowledge.

Please, TPS cold case squad, open this case up to fresh eyes. For example, Criminologist Mike Arntfield and his students could be very useful and they’ve had success.

ETA: grammar. And how do we know for sure gas wasn’t siphoned out of her car by the killer or someone else (unrelated to the killing), explaining the fuel level?

/end of rant

I remember the JB case very well and read all of those threads while he was still missing and remember very clearly the day his shoes were found...and then later, his remains.

A very good example of how someone sitting behind their computer can contribute solid ideas to help with a search of someone who is missing.

I very much agree with having a cold case squad opening up this case to fresh eyes. With some key pieces of evidence being uncovered after the trial in this case, it would be an ideal scenario to have someone brand new come in and have a look. DNA evidence has come such a long way in the past 30 years, surely there could be something new to find or even finally confirm that the blood was EB's and not that of another family member, as often suggested?

DNA would be on both the drivers and passengers seat belts, as well as perhaps the possibility of fingerprints on other areas (seat positioner) and or footprints on the gas and brake pedals.

The vehicle being found left in reverse has always been a real puzzle to me as well, as though the person who left it that way didn't have a clue how to drive a standard vehicle.

Simple explanation really,


A second explanation would be, maybe the vehicle never even left that area, and maybe EB is much closer to home then a lot of people think.

Maybe the car only traveled to the tennis courts/UOT and a few other places within the area.

The sightings of the car on the 401, or in Port Perry area were never 100% confirmed.

.

Quoted snipped and bbm

If the car was ever moved from the shop, I think that the person who moved it would have left it NOT somewhere where he could last be placed with EB by a potential witness, but back at the campus where it could blend in more easily and where she was last expected to be at.

I have always had my doubts about the 401 sighting.
It would also make sense to me that if someone was going to take an unwilling EB across the highway to Lake Scuggog, they would have first disabled her and then put her into the trunk area to minimize the risk of her alerting the attention of another driver. In addition, I think that there would have been more than one sighting of her on the 401 that day. JMO

EB could very well be much closer to where her car was found, somewhere well-concealed.

Sorry, I know I am not bringing anything new to this discussion, just hoping there would be some way to re-ignite it so that the right person takes interest and decides to breathe new life into the investigation.

This is one case that I have always felt can and will be solved. Just a feeling I've got.
I have never discounted PB for this case. He got increasingly violent towards his victims when he was working solo as the Scarborough Rapist.

JMO

 

[harry poppins]

The vehicle being found left in reverse has always been a real puzzle to me as well, as though the person who left it that way didn't have a clue how to drive a standard vehicle.

It is actually quite the opposite,

That tells me the person driving it knew A LOT about cars, and manual transmissions, and how to drive them,

It is very common to leave a manual transmission in reverse gear when parked, and most mechanics will suggest their customers do so.

Which Gear Should You Leave a Manual Transmission Car Parked In?



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