GUILTY Canada - Jessica Newman, 24, Calgary, 10 March 2015 #2

  • #401
Not at all, considering I'm the one who posted it. I think you may be confused about "your" bottom line. No one knows what Jessica was "going to do" because it did not occur. All we know is that there was a court hearing that was to take place the following morning to determine whether Jessica's visitation with her son would be shifted to partial custody. Arguing that she was the primary caregiver would have been very difficult as she did not reside with any of her children. We also know, according to her family, that she did not have custody of any of her boys at the time and had not had custody for quite some time. So, using her older boys as leverage in court would have worked against her.

Media reports state that Jessica was hoping for shared custody. I didn't know that Jessica didn't have custody of her sons. I assumed, after hearing many times that the boys will now grow up without a mom, that they were living with their mom. If they weren't living with their mom, then they were already somewhat growing up without a mom - in my opinion.
 
  • #402
Hopefully KCR would have at least been given the opportunity to consult with a lawyer prior to police questioning, to be advised on whether he should answer any of their questions.

Of course Kevin has the right to consult a lawyer prior to being questioned, but he did not have a lawyer present during questioning. His lawyer would tell him to keep his mouth shut, but if he didn't, anything he said can be used against him during trial. Have a look at the interrogation of one of the Victoria Stafford suspects: http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/story/1.1202581
 
  • #403
Media reports state that Jessica was hoping for shared custody. I didn't know that Jessica didn't have custody of her sons. I assumed, after hearing many times that the boys will now grow up without a mom, that they were living with their mom. If they weren't living with their mom, then they were already somewhat growing up without a mom - in my opinion.

Fair enough. Unfortunately the portrait that has been painted is not necessarily accurate regarding Jessica's involvement and parenting of her three kids. I have to agree, in many ways, they were already growing up without their mom. Not to downplay the severity of what has happened, or the tragedy in the boys lives, just to simply clarify that she was not actively parenting on a consistent basis.
 
  • #404
Fair enough. Unfortunately the portrait that has been painted is not necessarily accurate regarding Jessica's involvement and parenting of her three kids. I have to agree, in many ways, they were already growing up without their mom. Not to downplay the severity of what has happened, or the tragedy in the boys lives, just to simply clarify that she was not actively parenting on a consistent basis.

I'm getting the impression that her life was somewhat off the rails before the murder. What was Kevin's situation at the time? Did Jessica have something on him that would level the field in terms of joint custody? I'm having problems understanding why Kevin would murder Jessica over custody if he already had day to day care of their son. I'm also curious about who was looking after their son at the time that he picked Jessica up from work. Was Kevin living with his parents at the time?

I just listened to some of the news footage again and the story that is presented is very much: "Jessica, the mother of three". She definitely gave birth three times, but if the children are all raised by someone else, then "mother" is perhaps not the correct point to emphasize.
 
  • #405
  • #406
I'm getting the impression that her life was somewhat off the rails before the murder. What was Kevin's situation at the time? Did Jessica have something on him that would level the field in terms of joint custody? I'm having problems understanding why Kevin would murder Jessica over custody if he already had day to day care of their son. I'm also curious about who was looking after their son at the time that he picked Jessica up from work. Was Kevin living with his parents at the time?
Assuming he is guilty... Perhaps she told him that she did not live up to the conditions that CFS had asked of her, or that she didn't want shared custody anymore? He needed her to assume shared custody so that he could take a new job. Perhaps he was angry that once again, she was shirking her parental responsibilities. Or maybe, it had nothing to do with the hearing the next day? Unless he confesses, chances are, we will never know.
 
  • #407
An arrest is not always indicative of guilt.

Quite true. Now that I better understand the custody situation, I'm having problems understanding why the father of the two year old would murder Jessica over custody, with the exception that she was going to make claims that he is an unfit father. My guess is that allegations of bad parenting would lead to an psychological assessment of both parents, not the loss of custody. I don't see a motive for murder anymore.
 
  • #408
Assuming he is guilty... Perhaps she told him that she did not live up to the conditions that CFS had asked of her, or that she didn't want shared custody anymore? He needed her to assume shared custody so that he could take a new job. Perhaps he was angry that once again, she was shirking her parental responsibilities. Or maybe, it had nothing to do with the hearing the next day? Unless he confesses, chances are, we will never know.

Why would being a single parent and working be a problem for Kevin? There are so many options for parents in that situation, so many government subsidies for parents with limited resources. I don't understand why he didn't just go forward with his life, or could this have been about Kevin wanting to keep his common law relationship with Jessica?
 
  • #409
Quite true. Now that I better understand the custody situation, I'm having problems understanding why the father of the two year old would murder Jessica over custody, with the exception that she was going to make claims that he is an unfit father. My guess is that allegations of bad parenting would lead to an psychological assessment of both parents, not the loss of custody. I don't see a motive for murder anymore.

Given that CFS was involved and JRN had conditions to be met while KR had sole custody, chances are that he was seen as the stable parent. Whenever a very young child is placed soley with the Father, and the mother has supervised visits, something is clearly wrong with the Mother's parenting abilities. Given that she didn't have custody of any of her children, obviously something was up. I highly doubt that her word carried much weight.
 
  • #410
Why would being a single parent and working be a problem for Kevin? There are so many options for parents in that situation, so many government subsidies for parents with limited resources. I don't understand why he didn't just go forward with his life, or could this have been about Kevin wanting to keep his common law relationship with Jessica?
Not if he has to go out of town for his job, which is what he and his family have claimed. There is no overnight daycare.
 
  • #411
Not if he has to go out of town for his job, which is what he and his family have claimed. There is no overnight daycare.

He wanted to move away from Calgary to work, but Jessica wanted to prevent him from taking their son with him? That would be a problem. I suspect the courts would require that the child remain in Calgary until the custody issues were resolved. With the oil company layoffs, I doubt that an oil job would take him out of the city. Has anyone said what sort of job he wanted to do out of town that he couldn't do in Calgary?

Did he want to move away for work and leave his son behind? There are plenty of options there as well.
 
  • #412
I really see it as a in the heat of the moment murder,

I don't think KR set out that night to harm Jessica, Jessica was not afraid of KR

I think that KR was trying to better his and his son's life by getting a better job,

Very sad I think that addiction plays a big part in this,
 
  • #413
He wanted to move away from Calgary to work, but Jessica wanted to prevent him from taking their son with him? That would be a problem. I suspect the courts would require that the child remain in Calgary until the custody issues were resolved. With the oil company layoffs, I doubt that an oil job would take him out of the city. Has anyone said what sort of job he wanted to do out of town that he couldn't do in Calgary?

Did he want to move away for work and leave his son behind? There are plenty of options there as well.

First the big layoffs in the oil companies wouldn't have started until after the papers would have been filed with the courts, after dealing with family courts I would assume that the paperwork was filed in January.

My understanding is KR drives heavy equipment. If KR was hoping for a camp job he wouldn't take his son, he would need someone in Calgary to be responsible for the little guy while KR was at camp working.

It may not be the case of where he couldn't find the kind of work in Calgary, its the difference in wages, they are making crazy money working in the camps, I have a relative that drives heavy equipment up near Fort McMurray, his home is in Olds with his wife and kids but for 3 weeks a month he lives in a camp, his wife holds down the fort with the kids.

I don't for one second think that KR wanted to move the little guy, I feel that he wanted Jessica to step up and be a mom, like he had stepped up and been a dad.
 
  • #414
I really see it as a in the heat of the moment murder,

I don't think KR set out that night to harm Jessica, Jessica was not afraid of KR

I think that KR was trying to better his and his son's life by getting a better job,

Very sad I think that addiction plays a big part in this,

Calgary seems to be a large city with ample job opportunities for a fit, healthy, capable 30 year old. In fact, salaries in Calgary are higher that any other city in the country. Why would Kevin need to move out of Calgary to earn more money? I'm having problems believing that Kevin couldn't find a work solution in Calgary, where he could continue to raise his son using the many options available to single parents.

Canadian city salaries: http://www.livingin-canada.com/compare-canadian-cities.html
 

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  • #415
He wanted to move away from Calgary to work, but Jessica wanted to prevent him from taking their son with him? That would be a problem. I suspect the courts would require that the child remain in Calgary until the custody issues were resolved. With the oil company layoffs, I doubt that an oil job would take him out of the city. Has anyone said what sort of job he wanted to do out of town that he couldn't do in Calgary?

Did he want to move away for work and leave his son behind? There are plenty of options there as well.
I surmised that it was a construction job. It is very common for those trades to be asked to go out of town. They make more money when out of town.
 
  • #416
First the big layoffs in the oil companies wouldn't have started until after the papers would have been filed with the courts, after dealing with family courts I would assume that the paperwork was filed in January.

My understanding is KR drives heavy equipment. If KR was hoping for a camp job he wouldn't take his son, he would need someone in Calgary to be responsible for the little guy while KR was at camp working.

It may not be the case of where he couldn't find the kind of work in Calgary, its the difference in wages, they are making crazy money working in the camps, I have a relative that drives heavy equipment up near Fort McMurray, his home is in Olds with his wife and kids but for 3 weeks a month he lives in a camp, his wife holds down the fort with the kids.

I don't for one second think that KR wanted to move the little guy, I feel that he wanted Jessica to step up and be a mom, like he had stepped up and been a dad.

Why would he expect that Jessica could parent a child when he knew that she was incapable of parenting the two older children? If the courts deemed her unfit to parent, why would he doubt that ruling? He had to work with the circumstances he created. He had a child with a woman who was an unfit parent. He knew that he was the child's primary caregiver. He, along with every other parent, should have known that his life had changed and his job ambitions had to change too.

The fact that Jessica was hoping for joint custody suggests to me that she wanted more responsibility for the child, so it's not adding up for me that the core issue was that Kevin had no one to look after their son if he moved away to work.

Some people that work in Fort McMurray live in the city, and there is daycare there, so that would be a solution as well - unless Jessica was attempting to prevent Kevin from taking their son out of Calgary.

Did she put him in what he perceived to be an impossible situation such that she couldn't have day to day care of their son, but she was using the courts to prevent Kevin from moving away with their son?
 
  • #417
I surmised that it was a construction job. It is very common for those trades to be asked to go out of town. They make more money when out of town.

Either way, given Kevin's circumstances, an out of town job was not really an option. Jessica lived in Calgary, and the best interests of the child usually dictate that a child should have access to both parents. The best way to achieve that is that both parents live in the same city. If Jessica was unfit, and Kevin wanted to move away for work and leave his child behind, then their son should have been cared for by extended family, or child services. What was the purpose of the custody hearing if Jessica wasn't petitioning for more control of her son? Did Kevin want to leave Calgary for work, and prevent Jessica from caring for their son while he was away?
 
  • #418
I don't think that KR wanted to relocate I think that he wanted Jessica to be able to have the little guy overnight.
 
  • #419
There is so much to read on this thread. Perhaps some questions from posters have been answered. So forgive me, if the following information is being repeated,

Who has have been raising the children: The following comes from another site,

Regarding the kids being placed with her parents, Her mother has had custody of the middle child since he was 9 months old and her father has had her oldest for quite some time, he did give her a chance with the oldest for about a year and a half, but when she was dealing with some issues the oldest went back to live with her dad in Aug of last year. The father of the youngest was given primary care by child services last year around the same time.
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As to our Canadian court system Otto: I believe the following includes the updates to our law. Note (on second thought this is 2012, and I think sentence times may have been changed,( But here are the Canadian definitions of the category of charges.)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/murder-vs-manslaughter-1.1155132

First degree murder

Definition: A culpable homicide that is planned and deliberate — both aspects must be demonstrated in order for the homicide to be considered first-degree murder.

Some homicides are automatically considered first-degree murder — even if they were not intentional or planned:
■The killing of a police officer or prison employee on duty.
■A killing committed in the course of one of the following offences: hijacking, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, forcible confinement, hostage taking, terrorism, intimidation,criminal harassment, any offence committed on behalf of a criminal organization.

Sentence: First -degree murder carries an automatic life sentence with no possibility of parole for 25 years. Offenders who are paroled remain on parole for the rest of their life, even after their release from prison, meaning they must report to a parole officer and are subject to the conditions of their parole. If they break the conditions of their release, they are sent directly back to prison without a hearing.

Second-degree murder

Definition: A deliberate killing carried out without planning that does not fall under any of the categories of first degree murder.

Sentence: The minimum sentence is life in prison with no parole for 10 years, but sentences can be as long as life in prison without parole for 25 years. The date of parole eligibility is at the judge's discretion.

Manslaughter

Definition: A homicide committed without the intention to cause death, although there may have been an intention to cause harm. There are two broad categories of manslaughter:

Unlawful act — when a person commits a crime that unintentionally results in the death of another person. For example, an individual punches someone in the face, and that person dies of his or her injuries, or someone fires their gun carelessly in public and unintentionally shoots a bystander.

Criminal negligence — when the homicide was the result of an act or a failure to act that showed wanton or reckless disregard for the lives of others. An act is generally considered negligent if a reasonable person would have foreseen that the action would endanger a life. A failure to act can only be considered negligence if a person had a duty imposed by law to act — it does not apply, for example, to bystanders who see a person in distress and don't help.

In some instances, a murder charge may be reduced to manslaughter if alcohol or other substances are found to have impaired the mental faculties of the perpetrator or if the homicide was committed in the heat of passion resulting from provocation, which is defined as a wrongful act or insult that would deprive an ordinary person of the power of self-control.

Impaired driving causing death is a separate offence under the Criminal Code that carries a maximum punishment of 14 years in prison.

Sentence: Manslaughter carries no minimum sentence, except when it is committed with a firearm, in which case the minimum sentence is four years in prison. Sentences vary from probation to life in prison.
 
  • #420
I really see it as a in the heat of the moment murder,

I don't think KR set out that night to harm Jessica, Jessica was not afraid of KR

I think that KR was trying to better his and his son's life by getting a better job,

Very sad I think that addiction plays a big part in this,

I agree with skinnycat. It has always been an avoidance of mentioning two things from her family, and I don't blame them.

Jessica had addiction issues. And unfortunately many young people do.
Because of these issues, she was not capable of raising her children. And that is also not uncommon either. We see it everyday. One by one, as she had them and tried, the children had to be spread out in amongst family members, and the last one with the father of the last baby, who is Kevin and is up for Murder. Child Protective Services do not step in unless necessary, and in this case they had to with Jessica.

Science is just beginning to know why some people become addicted and others who have done the same thing, can grow up and walk away from it.
Addiction is an illness - it is not a moral fragmentation.

In spite of these issues, she apparently was loved and understood by her friends and family, if one is to read certain facebooks.

From my research, this man held down two jobs at the same time and was the sole supporter of his son (the 2 year old).

I do not in anyway know Kevin, nor did I know Jessica, and am not taking any sides.

We may never know why this happened the night the two of them met up for the last time.
 

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