CANADA Canada - Lloyd Larsfolk, 14, & John McCormick, 15, Caledon ON, Aug 1981

Wow, creepy! I did a Toronto Star archive search of this David Norris person referenced above. He was a Star staff reporter throughout the 1970s. Disturbingly, some of his articles concerned crime stories, including one about the infamous murder of shoeshine boy Emanuel Jaques in 1977, and one about castrating dangerous sex offenders. If the daughter's accusations are true, he was writing about what he knew best.
It should be stressed that David Norris has not been convicted. I found nothing further in the Star archives by or about the man after 1980.

http://blog.unsolvedcanada.ca/2007/10/yvonne-leroux-north-york-on-murdered.html
A reporter for the Toronto Star is suspected for being a serial killer in the Toronto area using his position to gain access to victims.
 
I wonder if the police take her seriously. She sounds like she's relying on "reclaimed" memories which have been shown to be notoriously unreliable. It's just so odd. Realize that she's been "working really hard to remember" things since, 1984, she says.

I'm not saying that terrible things did not happen to her. I just wonder if anything at all can be verified about her story. "Consistent with" is a long way from "identified as" when talking about something as important as a murder weapon. I've found no references to her father other than her YouTube articles and one guy (supposedly a true crime writer) querying a forum looking for people who knew him. Her father's dead, so there's no hearing her side. She has a tape, which sounds like it was done during her mother's final illness but again, it's unconvincing as absolute proof.

I hate to be a doubter, but I do not see any information that can be verified here.

Interestingly, the reason that she's recovered all of these memories is the disappearance of her brother Kelvin Norris in 1984.
http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401726S

I thought that he had been discussed here before, but did not find any threads. There is as little information on him as on their father.
 
^^I agree, which is why I approach this angle with a lot of skepticism. It's all conjecture, at least from the perspectives of outsiders like us, including the murder of this Yvonne Leroux girl in 1972 ( http://www.police.york.on.ca/cold_cases/leroux.htm ). The daughter says "We know he killed...", but the Leroux case is still officially open. I found nothing in the newspaper archives about the man ever having been under suspicion for anything.
Still, it's a tantalizing new storyline, and I found it hair-raising to read what he happened to be writing about during his days at the Star.
 
Okay I will say this. If that boy was being beaten so badly, and was afraid when he got home, he may have planned to run away so he would not be beaten again. If he was good enough friends with the other boy, perhaps they left together. But the bikes being left behind is what throws that theory off a bit, I would think if they planned to leave they would have used their bikes to get further away faster, unless they were planning on taking a bus or something. On the other hand, the way that the one mother said that the kids were supposed to be at the other house reminds me of a time I wanted to go to a party, and had a friend cover for me, saying that I was at her house, we had also told her parents she was at my house, to cover for her. We got caught and in very big trouble... Could they have been invited to a party or something that night, and something happened?
 
I sent the the tip on the YouTube Video and the people from Canada's Missing Children are going to be watching the video later today. The lady told me that it would not be difficult at all to search the hole she speaks about and make sure there are no bodies there. She told me if there is nothing in that hole, than at least they can rule this tip out. If there is... Well that's the best scenario and at least what is left of the families will know what happened to the kids and who did it. So she told me either way it is a good tip and thanked me for it. Apparentally this woman has not contacted them about the tip. Instead she went on YouTube. Which confuses me a bit...
 
It's pretty clear McCormick Sr killed the boys. Ms. McCormick probably knew the truth but was too afraid to speak, given that she lived with this human horror show of a husband. It says the boys tracks lead to the fence by the gravel pit then disappear. They probably don't "disappear" but the police can no longer track them, happens all the time. I bet the older McCormick followed them, killed them in the gravel pits and never looked back. LE will often keep the case open even if they know who the suspect is. How terrible a story, two young men just getting strated, one living a hell on earth....best friends who died together. I know McCormick rots in hell.
 
I sent the the tip on the YouTube Video and the people from Canada's Missing Children are going to be watching the video later today. The lady told me that it would not be difficult at all to search the hole she speaks about and make sure there are no bodies there. She told me if there is nothing in that hole, than at least they can rule this tip out. If there is... Well that's the best scenario and at least what is left of the families will know what happened to the kids and who did it. So she told me either way it is a good tip and thanked me for it. Apparentally this woman has not contacted them about the tip. Instead she went on YouTube. Which confuses me a bit...
Maybe she contacted the police and they showed no interest. Anyway, thanks for forwarding the woman's tip. If nothing comes of it, then it looks more and more like the father (McCormick) did it, as many suspect.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the father did it. However, a few things about that video caught my attention. First off, she says that her own father tried to murder her. That's interesting. Someone who would murder his own child wouldn't think twice about killing children other than his own. He lived very close to where these children went missing, which again is interesting. The mother and father packing up the one boy's room as if they knew what happened to him, welp on the surface does seem to show they knew what happened. But look beyond that, it makes me think that they believed their son was sick of the abuse and ran away. Perhaps this made the father angry and he packed up the room, kind of like if he comes back he isn't welcome here. Perhaps he had threatened to leave in the past, and they had told him if he ran away he couldn't come back home. If he had made threats and than disappeared, they would believe he just followed through on his threats. And perhaps they just figured he got his best friend to go with him. Now this other guy. The daughter says he tried to kill her. She also states her own brother went missing two years after these two boys, and his body was never found. The father lived so close to where the kids went misisng, makes me think he would have had no trouble getting to them. And the hole... That's interesting. Dug a big hole, said he was going to put in a pool, than filled in the hole quite soon after the boys go missing. Why than? What made him so interested in this case that he followed it so closely? Just makes me wonder... Either he did it or a lot of coincidences.
 
Laura Bean, any updates on whether the woman's Youtube video brought about any searches or renewed investigation? Perhaps they're waiting until spring before starting any digging.
 
.

David Norris did own the property. I am planning on going there next weekend, meet the new owners and ask for permission to dig. I may have to confirm the address at that time.

It would be great to get as much help as necessary to dig up that hole properly, it is a big undertaking.

The detective in charge of this investigation is on vacation until September 7th, so we will not know their position until then.

The police I have spoken to so far have agreed that who ever killed one of those girls likely killed all three of them. In 1972, so far it is believed that David Norris killed two girls, he definitely killed Yvonne Leroux. Since he did kill her it is likely that he killed the two in 1974 as well, Dianne Singh and Charyle Hanson. The murder of Veronica Kaye, in 1980 is a copy cat of the murder of Yvonne Leroux.

The cops I have so far spoken to seemed to be stumped as well as to why that property has not been dug up yet. I think we are all in agreement that it should be. It is just not looking as if they actually will do it anytime soon, if at all.
 
Thank you for your reply.

A couple of quick questions.

Where, when and how did you originally get the address ?

Where did you get your image of the property from? I see it's pertaining to Google, but it doesn't appear to be Google Maps. Perhaps Google Earth? So another similar program belonging to Google?

Thank you in advance.
 
I will try to answer your questions sleuthhound. Last summer I went up and found the house. I recognized the house as I had been there when David Norris owned it. I will check my records, or confirm the address when I go there again next week. I believe that was the number posted on the road across from the house, as they post house numbers this way in the country.

I got my images from Google Earth.
 
The police I have spoken to so far have agreed that who ever killed one of those girls likely killed all three of them. In 1972, so far it is believed that David Norris killed two girls, he definitely killed Yvonne Leroux. Since he did kill her it is likely that he killed the two in 1974 as well, Dianne Singh and Charyle Hanson. The murder of Veronica Kaye, in 1980 is a copy cat of the murder of Yvonne Leroux.
Interesting, but a few reservations. Firstly, where do you, and the Norris daughter, whose Youtube video I posted earlier, get your certitude that Norris killed Leroux. What solid evidence is there? Secondly, we don't know for sure that Cheryl Hanson is dead. We can assume, but as of now she's still only missing. Thirdly, what I find a serious anomaly is the diversity of victims alleged to have been killed by Norris. The teenaged girls and young women I can understand (Leroux, Singh, Kaye), but Hanson was a 7-year-old little girl, and of course Larsfolk and McCormick were teenage boys. The victimology is atypical to say the least.

I also wonder if perhaps the same person abducted Ingrid Bauer along Islington Ave. in Kleinburg in August, 1972.
 
Thirdly, what I find a serious anomaly is the diversity of victims alleged to have been killed by Norris. The teenaged girls and young women I can understand (Leroux, Singh, Kaye), but Hanson was a 7-year-old little girl, and of course Larsfolk and McCormick were teenage boys. The victimology is atypical to say the least.

Hello CrimeSolver,

If in fact this David Norris character is a serial killer, keep in mind there is no actual profile for a serial killer. There are, however, numerous profiles for identified serial killers, but they vary.

I understand that in many cases, a serial killer is known to target a certain person and even place, but that does not necessarily mean each person that commits serial homicide has a certain characteristic, sex, age, location, etc. that they look for. Some simply do it for the pleasure they get out of killing and that's all there is to it for them.

It's very complex, and even the FBI and the U.S. government don't even share the same definitions when it comes to serial homicides.

Is it possible David Norris killed each person mentioned above? Even considering the irregularities of some of the victims? Absolutely.

But again, as you stated, these are all allegations until evidence is found, or witnesses come forward, that confirm this.
 
...but that does not necessarily mean each person that commits serial homicide has a certain characteristic, sex, age, location, etc. that they look for. Some simply do it for the pleasure they get out of killing and that's all there is to it for them.
That's a very rare serial killer, sleuthhound. Think about some famous examples. Dahmer? Almost exclusively young black males. Green River Killer? Exclusively prostitutes. Gacy? Young Caucasian men in their teens or early twenties. Bundy? University-age young women, with one exception in his last killing, that of 12-year-old Kimberly Leach. Jack the Ripper? Prostitutes. Kemper? As with Bundy, university-age women, though he also killed his grandparents, his mother, and a friend of his mother's. Ramirez? Random only in the sense that his victims were people whose houses he invaded in the middle of the night.
Henry Lee Lucas and Ottis Toole might be seen as exceptions to the rule in that they supposedly killed some men (and Adam Walsh) along with all the women. BTK is also an exception, but I can't think of many others.

Serial killers usually have a pathological urge to victimize a certain type of person, and no one else, whether it be for sexual (most often) or other reasons.
Is it possible one person, such as David Norris, killed all the victims mentioned in this thread? It is, but I just highly doubt it.
 
As with Bundy, university-age women, though he also killed his grandparents, his mother, and a friend of his mother's.
O/T but this is the first Ive ever heard of this & Ive read at least 3 books on Bundy.Where did you hear this?
 
To your questions CrimeSolver. I am the Norris daughter. I gave the O.P.P the weapon used to kill Yvonne. It was a dear antler walking stick from Scotland, with very distinct markings. The markings are consistent with the wounds on her head. I also gave a very detailed account of her murder. Before I spoke to the police I had not read anything about her murder. Everything I said was different from what had been previously published and from what had been rumored to be true. I was correct, the first publications and rumors were wrong.

For instance, it was rumored that Yvonne had been raped. This is the first question the police asked me before deciding to come see me. I said no she wasn’t. If I had said yes, as was widely rumored, they would not have bothered to come see me as she was not raped. Her pants came down as the result of being dragged after death.

It was written in a Toronto Star article after her murder that she was killed just minutes before being found at 8am. I said she was killed with in hours of being picked up, at night. I was right, the article was wrong.

I described what side of her head got the brunt force of the brutal attack, it was her right side, as she was laying on her left side. If you are able to access this information I believe you will find that I am correct. I also stated that she was dragged after death. Again I am correct. I also stated that the killer went near the trees and moved brush around. I believe that he was planing on putting her there but got spoked off and he did leave in a hurry. This again is only something that someone who was there would have known. Nobody in the police department will say that he did not kill Yvonne Leroux.

As I am sure you are aware, that in a case where the suspect is dead and can’t be charged the police can not name the suspect. I was told that this is for civil reasons. For instance, without a trial the person’s family can sue them for slander if they state this without the benefit of trial. This is the practice in Ontario.

The police will not confirm nor deny. I do understand their reasoning. However at the same time I feel that it is not fair to the victims family who will never know what happened to their loved one. This is the reason why I started speaking out and went on youtube. I knew that the police would not tell the boys families that my dad lived close to them and had killed before. Without that knowledge the families would not be able to make a choice to search his property or not. I believe that is a choice that the families have a right to make.

I don’t think to many people believe Cheryl Hanson is still alive. Statistics would not bare this probability out.

You described as a “serious anomaly is the diversity of victims” I don’t know how it is an anomaly that someone would kill a 16 year old but not a 7 year old. Anyone who would kill a 16 year old, attempt to kill his 12 year old daughter is not going to have the good moral character not to kill a 7 year old. These people do not think like us nor see people as anything but objects.
I think sleuthhound response is good. Sometimes they go for what is accessible and what they think they can get away with. They kill for the pleasure of killing. David also wanted to kill his mothers boyfriend. The only reason could be for power and control, what he would have got from killing anybody.

There were things happening at the Norris house at the time the boys went missing that I find of interest. I am not able to publish what it was. Did David Norris have anything to do with the boys disappearance, I don’t know. But I do think it should be checked.

Curiously, when I entered his safety deposit box, there was a cheep black plastic men’s comb. Rather a strange abject to put in a safety depot box.

The case of Ingrid Bauer has always interested me. She was abducted in David’s cruising area. This was the area where he was working for the Toronto Star and would drive around looking for stories.
 
To your questions CrimeSolver. I am the Norris daughter. I gave the O.P.P the weapon used to kill Yvonne. It was a dear antler walking stick from Scotland, with very distinct markings. The markings are consistent with the wounds on her head. I also gave a very detailed account of her murder. Before I spoke to the police I had not read anything about her murder. Everything I said was different from what had been previously published and from what had been rumored to be true. I was correct, the first publications and rumors were wrong.

For instance, it was rumored that Yvonne had been raped. This is the first question the police asked me before deciding to come see me. I said no she wasn’t. If I had said yes, as was widely rumored, they would not have bothered to come see me as she was not raped. Her pants came down as the result of being dragged after death.

It was written in a Toronto Star article after her murder that she was killed just minutes before being found at 8am. I said she was killed with in hours of being picked up, at night. I was right, the article was wrong.

I described what side of her head got the brunt force of the brutal attack, it was her right side, as she was laying on her left side. If you are able to access this information I believe you will find that I am correct. I also stated that she was dragged after death. Again I am correct. I also stated that the killer went near the trees and moved brush around. I believe that he was planing on putting her there but got spoked off and he did leave in a hurry. This again is only something that someone who was there would have known. Nobody in the police department will say that he did not kill Yvonne Leroux.

As I am sure you are aware, that in a case where the suspect is dead and can’t be charged the police can not name the suspect. I was told that this is for civil reasons. For instance, without a trial the person’s family can sue them for slander if they state this without the benefit of trial. This is the practice in Ontario.

The police will not confirm nor deny. I do understand their reasoning. However at the same time I feel that it is not fair to the victims family who will never know what happened to their loved one. This is the reason why I started speaking out and went on youtube. I knew that the police would not tell the boys families that my dad lived close to them and had killed before. Without that knowledge the families would not be able to make a choice to search his property or not. I believe that is a choice that the families have a right to make.

I don’t think to many people believe Cheryl Hanson is still alive. Statistics would not bare this probability out.

You described as a “serious anomaly is the diversity of victims” I don’t know how it is an anomaly that someone would kill a 16 year old but not a 7 year old. Anyone who would kill a 16 year old, attempt to kill his 12 year old daughter is not going to have the good moral character not to kill a 7 year old. These people do not think like us nor see people as anything but objects.
I think sleuthhound response is good. Sometimes they go for what is accessible and what they think they can get away with. They kill for the pleasure of killing. David also wanted to kill his mothers boyfriend. The only reason could be for power and control, what he would have got from killing anybody.

There were things happening at the Norris house at the time the boys went missing that I find of interest. I am not able to publish what it was. Did David Norris have anything to do with the boys disappearance, I don’t know. But I do think it should be checked.

Curiously, when I entered his safety deposit box, there was a cheep black plastic men’s comb. Rather a strange abject to put in a safety depot box.

The case of Ingrid Bauer has always interested me. She was abducted in David’s cruising area. This was the area where he was working for the Toronto Star and would drive around looking for stories.
Thanks for this post, Liquidlounge. Interesting stuff, indeed. If you actually witnessed the Leroux murder (presumably as a child), I certainly have no reason to disbelieve you. It is understandable, though frustrating, that after a suspect's death, he/she cannot be publicly named, no matter how compelling the evidence. Reminds me of the Marianne Schuett case, in which there was apparently a strong suspect who is now deceased. He also remains unnamed.
Did the police "persuade" you to take down the Youtube videos? I noticed today that they are no longer there.
I am in full agreement that the former Norris property should be searched for Larsfolk/McCormick, and that he should be investigated in any cases that have parallels to Leroux. I am simply declaring that, whether you agree with it or not, most serial killers have patterns and are driven by compulsions, and that includes their choices of victims. I have acknowledged that there are exceptions, and Norris may be one of them.
 
I've read several mentions of this video, and even came across the links several times but each time they were unavailable as they had been removed by the user.

Is there anyway to have these videos uploaded again? As CrimeSolver asked as well, what were the reasons for it being taken down?
 

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