CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Australian & g/f Chynna Deese, American, murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019

[otto]

Otto - I think SillyBilly May have answered your question further back in the thread.

Thanks! I saw that - that some people who do not live in Alberta will try to obtain Alberta insurance because it is cheaper than BC insurance. That doesn't mean it's legal. People who live in BC have to insure and register their vehicles in BC. Lucas Fowler was living in BC and he bought a vehicle in BC, yet he had Alberta plates. How did he do that?

Furthermore, by registering the vehicle in Alberta, the licence would have tracked to an Alberta address - one where Lucas did not live. I think that this goal to pay lower insurance delayed in the identification of the victims for 3 days.

 

[PingTheRouter]

Thanks! I saw that - that some people who do not live in Alberta will try to obtain Alberta insurance because it is cheaper than BC insurance. That doesn't mean it's legal. People who live in BC have to insure and register their vehicles in BC. Lucas Fowler was living in BC and he bought a vehicle in BC, yet he had Alberta plates. How did he do that?

Furthermore, by registering the vehicle in Alberta, the licence would have tracked to an Alberta address - one where Lucas did not live. I think that this goal to pay lower insurance delayed in the identification of the victims for 3 days.

i think your focus on the insurance issue may be skewing your deduction skills and normally from your post you are pretty good at that
if that is the way they tried to identify their bodies, does this mean their wallets were gone including the males passport ( females was found later hidden but not the guys)
meaning not really did the insurance cause a delay but primary ID being missing probably caused the longer delay as normally in these cases those are found on the victim
this means it could maybe be a robbery situation

 

[otto]

i think your focus on the insurance issue may be skewing your deduction skills and normally from your post you are pretty good at that
if that is the way they tried to identify their bodies, does this mean their wallets were gone including the males passport ( females was found later hidden but not the guys)
meaning not really did the insurance cause a delay but primary ID being missing probably caused the longer delay as normally in these cases those are found on the victim
this means it could maybe be a robbery situation

We know that police were unable to identify the bodies for 3 days. Vehicle licence plate should lead police directly to the owner's address. That was not possible because the vehicle was registered in a province where the owner did not live.

"It appears robbery may have been the motive with the couple’s identification missing.

Mr Deese said investigators eventually found his sister’s passport hidden in the van."​

Eerie final sighting of murdered Aussie

 

[PingTheRouter]

We know that police were unable to identify the bodies for 3 days. Vehicle licence plate should lead police directly to the owner's address. That was not possible because the vehicle was registered in a province where the owner did not live.

"It appears robbery may have been the motive with the couple’s identification missing.

Mr Deese said investigators eventually found his sister’s passport hidden in the van."​

Eerie final sighting of murdered Aussie

im not trying to cause a fight just a discussion i just think you are dealing with a whole other kettle of fish when you are dealing with people who are travelers from overseas / across the border
if the person was a local i think the insurance issues you bring up would probably be a bigger deal
i think we all just assumed its because of cheaper rates or someone they knew helped them out to register the van and get it insured

 

[JudgeJudi]

They were found 12 miles from Liard Hot Springs.

From the press conference:

"20 kms south of Liard Hot Springs".

 

[otto]

im not trying to cause a fight just a discussion i just think you are dealing with a whole other kettle of fish when you are dealing with people who are travelers from overseas / across the border
if the person was a local i think the insurance issues you bring up would probably be a bigger deal
i think we all just assumed its because of cheaper rates or someone they knew helped them out to register the van and get it insured

Perhaps it's not unusual for youthful travellers to try to get around, or ignore, the laws of countries they visit, but it was a very bad idea for these tourists. Skirting the law contributed to a 3 day delay in their identification.

Lucas lived and worked in BC. He owned and purchased the vehicle in BC. That was his home jurisdiction. If he had registered the vehicle with his ranch address, police would have identified the victims immediately. Police would have had a head start on the investigation if they knew something about the victims when they were found.

"If you're just driving in B.C. as a tourist, you can drive with your existing insurance for up to six months — as long as you have a valid out-of-province driver's licence and your vehicle is properly licensed in your home jurisdiction."​

Insurance for students, military personnel and tourists

 

[Zella]

Does anyone know when he purchased the van? Is it very recent or had he had it awhile?

 

[JudgeJudi]

This may assist people who are late joining the thread.

Transcript of first press conference (Janelle Shoihet, Media Relations Officer at the BC RCMP)

"I’m here today to provide some further details and ask for public assistance in advancing an investigation into the double homicide that occurred in northern British Columbia earlier this week.

On Monday, July 15th, 2019 at approximately 7:19 a.m. Northern Rockies RCMP frontline officers were called to an area of the Alaska Highway approx. 20 kms south of Liard Hot Springs.

When officers arrived, they found the bodies of two individuals – a woman and a man, who were deceased. A blue 1986 Chevrolet van bearing Alberta licence plates was found at the scene. Early in the investigation these deaths were deemed suspicious and investigators from both the North District and BC RCMP Major Crime Units were called to assist. These investigators remain in the area and will draw up on any additional resources or specialised units that are required as this investigation unfolds. In order to further the investigation and to determine a timeline leading up to their deaths, we can now confirm that Chynna Noelle Deese, 24, of the United States and Lucas Robertson Fowler, 23, of Australia were victims of homicide.

Investigators are asking to speak with anybody who may have been travelling in the area of Liard Hot Springs, including any outlying camping areas in that area or along the Alaska Highway 97, from July 14th at 4:00 p.m. to July 15th, which was a Monday, at 8:00 a.m. We’re particularly interested in speaking to anybody who have dash cam video or who have spoken to or seen Lucas or Chynna in the area or this blue van. If you have information and haven’t already spoken to police you are asked to call the Northern Rockies RCMP at 250 774 2700.

The Deese and Fowler families have been notified and the RCMP has and will continue to offer any and all support to these families, just as we would with any family that has to deal with such with such a tragic loss.

We understand that Lucas’ family is travelling to Canada and that his father is an active member of the NSW Police Force. He is accompanied by a number of police officers from Australia. These investigators from Australia are here to support the Fowler family and will not form part of the BC RCMP investigative team here in Canada. In addition to working with the police liaison officer in Australia, to notify Lucas’ family, we have been working closely with our partners at the FBI in the United States in order to notify Chynna’s family.

We recognise that news is troubling for the entire community and absolutely appreciate that there may be concerns for safety in an area that’s popular area with outdoor enthusiasts and tourists alike. The investigation is in its very infancy and it’s not yet clear whether Chynna and Lucas were targeted or this was a crime of opportunity. At this point, we have nothing to indicate that their deaths are linked to any other active and ongoing investigations or previous investigations here in British Columbia or that there is a heightened risk to public safety.

Our investigators will consider any and all information carefully as the investigation unfolds. Should you have been in the area and have information and have not yet spoken to police, we are asking you once again to contact us at 250 774 2700. Thank you."

 

[janewall]

This is apparently the thread where multi-quote comes in super handy.

A couple of articles have said that he owned the vehicle, so insurance and registration should be in his name. He would need to live in Alberta to qualify for Alberta insurance and registration. He lived in BC and bought the van in BC. This is probably one reason why police needed 3 days to identify them - the registration address would have been useless.

I'm still not clear on either the van ownership, or on the licensing and insurance status of foreign nationals. Do we know how long Lucas had been living in Canada? Was he an official BC resident, or on a work or tourist visa? I really wonder if the van was not still owned by the ranchers and he had borrowed it for their cross-Canada adventure.

Speaking of which, I have a link for Venator Ranch where Lucas worked. Am I allowed to post it here? If not it's easy enough to search. They raise Angus cattle and bison, and it's located NW of Hudson's Hope on Beryl Prairie Road.

I'm not a gun person, but I truly wish this young couple had been carrying one in their van. JMO

Due to their being foreign nationals, it could have been tricky for either of them to obtain a firearm, and far more so to bring one into Canada. Although as a ranch hand Lucas may have been deemed to have a valid reason for possessing a firearm.

From the press conference:

"20 kms south of Liard Hot Springs".

Yes. 1 km = 0.61 miles; 20 kms = 12.2 miles.

 

[otto]

Does anyone know when he purchased the van? Is it very recent or had he had it awhile?

All we know is that he bought it at the ranch - could be from another ranch hand. There's no other information. As a mechanic, he probably did some work on the vehicle in preparation for the trip.

Just found this. It sounds like Fowler left the ranch on July 14 and the van broke down 4-5 hours into their trip.

"A Canadian family has confirmed Mr Fowler left their ranch the day before it is believed he was killed, and where he died is only a few hours away.
...

"It's about four and a half, five hours from our place here, it's just unbelievable, we're shocked — I don't know what to say," she said."​

Policeman's son and his girlfriend shot dead in Canada, NSW police say

 

[PingTheRouter]

i just saw a post saying that the first live stream for the presser had to be cancelled because they put the cat ears VR thing on the police liason officer oh my how terrible

otto i'll get back to you soon reading up on insurance for visa holders and or travelers within BC and other regions in canada including restrictions

this seems to be the only restrictions to car insurance and ownership for travelers

Buying A Car In Canada As A Foreigner. It is completely legal for a foreigner topurchase a vehicle in Canada, even if on a tourist visa. For the most part the only thing you will need is a valid international drivers license, some money and somewhere you can put down as a local address.

catears

 

[Zella]

All we know is that he bought it at the ranch - could be from another ranch hand. There's no other information. As a mechanic, he probably did some work on the vehicle in preparation for the trip.

Just found this. It sounds like Fowler left the ranch on July 14 and the van broke down 4-5 hours into their trip.

"A Canadian family has confirmed Mr Fowler left their ranch the day before it is believed he was killed, and where he died is only a few hours away.
...

"It's about four and a half, five hours from our place here, it's just unbelievable, we're shocked — I don't know what to say," she said."​

Policeman's son and his girlfriend shot dead in Canada, NSW police say

Okay thanks! Hmm. I had wondered if it was a recent purchase or if it was borrowed, so maybe that's why the registration wasn't immediate confirmation. But it sounds like he would have had time to change the registration. As old as the van was, I expect you're right about him possibly doing work on it before the trip.

 

[Zella]

because they put the cat ears VR thing on the police liason officer

SBM

Sorry--what does this mean?

 

[dotr]

Lucas Fowler's family 'crushed' by shooting deaths of son and girlfriend in Canada
"NSW Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Jones said on Saturday they had been told the young couple was shot in "what can only be described as horrific circumstances".

"This stretch of the highway ... is a very popular tourist destination and a homicide like this is very unprecedented," she said."

"Northern British Columbians are super friendly and super excited to see all these people who come from all over the world and so to see this ... incident happen, it's very shocking and upsetting.

"We spoke to the ranching couple that had hosted Lucas Fowler as a ranch hand and they were devastated, they thought he was such a lovely person and he had just left on Saturday from their home."

 

[PingTheRouter]

there is a link in my post iv edited called cat ears just click on it, and for some reason this forum didn't like the link to the picture

or here is the news story based on it
Cat filter mistakenly applied during police news conference on double murder

 

[Gardenista]

@Zella

Cat ears put on cop in B.C. homicide news conference streamed live on Facebook

 

[Zella]

there is a link in my post iv edited called cat ears just click on it, and for some reason this forum didn't like the link to the picture

or here is the news story based on it
Cat filter mistakenly applied during police news conference on double murder

@Zella

Cat ears put on cop in B.C. homicide news conference streamed live on Facebook

Oh wow. I wasn't quite sure what to think but had no idea it was that.

 

[al66pine]

A Safer Spot off Highway?

I think they would be foolish to camp on the side of a 2 lane highway. If the van was working, they should have moved to a safer spot. Therefore, I think something happened before they could repair the van.
Given how casual they were on Sunday, it seemed that they expected the van would cool down and they would be on their way. Police have said they think something happened in the evening.

Not sure how close the van was to traffic lanes or shoulder. On the shoulder? Or off the shoulder far enough so as not to inhibit traffic and far enough to leave space for another vehicle to use the shoulder for pulling off, say to change drivers?

A safer spot? From what standpoint? Van being rear-ended by a vehicle drifting out of traffic lane? Or safer from person/ppl intent on robbing/attacking/doing them other harm? If the latter, would moving van 50 ft/50 yds/1 mi/5 mi make them less vulnerable to robbers/murderers, assuming they were able to move van? Doubtful, but jmo.
Sad, sad, sad.

 

[JudgeJudi]

The couple met in 2017 and spent the next two years sharing their love of travel by visiting Central and South America, Japan and South East Asia.

‘Not many people would leave everything behind to be with the person they love, but he did,’ Mr Barrios told The Daily Telegraph. The couple visited Mr Barrios in Peru last year and he knew the young travellers were head-over-heels for each other. ‘For the short time we got to know each other, I can say she was lovely and loved Lucas as much as he loved her,’ Mr Barrios said.

Mr Fowler was a student at Ku-ring-gai High, in Sydney’s north, when Mr Barrios arrived at the school from Peru in 2010.

Mr Fowler left the high school in year 10 where he began an apprenticeship with a mechanic and saved up money for his world travels. ‘He decided to take the time to travel to see what he wanted to do afterwards,’ Mr Barrios said.

Mr Fowler and Ms Deese returned from Peru late 2018 and stayed with her family in North Carolina for about three months.

The last post on Mr Fowler’s Instagram is a picture of Ms Deese shared on January 2, 2019 with the caption ‘I’ll miss this lil basket case’.

Ms Deese, a recent graduate in psychology and business from Appalachian State University, was wearing a shirt with the school’s name emblazoned on the front.

Lucas was working at Venator Ranches in Hudson’s Hope, in remote British Columbia by February.

Ms Deese made her way to the ranch Mr Fowler was working at just over a week ago ahead of their travels ‘through the top half of the globe’

Australian man and girlfriend murdered in Canada travelled world together after meeting in Croatia | News You May Be Able To Use

 

[Kaie]

i think what is sad is that the bodies are being expatriated back to Australia and carolina which means they won't be burried together as lovers that is sad to me

I can see what you mean. I think their families have probably had to make some really tough decisions.