Deceased/Not Found Canada - Lyle, 78, & Marie McCann, 77, Alberta, 5 July 2010 #2 *T. Vader guilty*

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  • #321
From witnesses statements at Minnow Lake

- Motor home first seen at Minnow Lake when it pulled in around supper time, on Sunday, July 4th (driver was not Mr. McCann).

- Next day both vehicles were seen parked at campground at 6:30 am, again at 12:30 pm (knocked at door, no answer) ... RV burning later that evening.

- SUV found east of Minnow Lake

Would it be possible that the McCanns reached their first planned destination (Blue River)? Or perhaps they made another short stop prior to reaching Blue River?

Now that we know it was not the McCann's RV the one the fisherman saw at Chip Lake, and knowing that both the RV and the SUV were spotted at Minnow Lake, I am now thinking that the McCanns could have been attacked and even disposed of west of Minnow Lake, somewhere between their first planned stop and Minnow Lake.

If someone local could help us with times and distances, to try to find out how far would they have been able to drive (westbound) before being attacked and (disposed of :( ), in order for their attackers to turn around and arrive at Minnow Lake the next day, around supper time? The McCanns left Edmonton, AB Saturday, July 3rd, around 9 am.

Here is a new MAP showing the first stop they planned, and all other locations we already had. I have removed Chip Lake since that was not the McCanns RV.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=MacKay,+Alberta+(TV+apprehended)&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Unknown+road+to:Trans-Canada+Hwy%2FYellowhead+Hwy+W%2FAB-16+W+to:Carrot+Creek,+Alberta+(just+a+reference)+to:Peers,+Alberta+(unconfirmed+sightings+of+TV)+to:Range+Road+144,+Yellowhead+County,+Division+No.+14,+Alberta+T0E+0G0+to:Minnow+Lake,+Alberta+(RV+found+burned)+to:Blue+River,+BC+(first+stop+on+itinerary)&geocode=FciIMgMdrVUc-SnPxX_rGu2eUzH2BECUr-BKsQ%3BFU8FMgMdkwQc-Q%3BFVHDMQMd-7ob-Q%3BFfQhMgMd-noZ-Q%3BFVAGMgMd1iwY-SmfT1Qh55CeUzFGHyNytI0utA%3BFRnnMgMd2yoW-SlFW_lrIJieUzHCZSGbtH8H2g%3BFeNqMQMdELwV-SldDvmTkZueUzHE0lEOZW6pVA%3BFZkxLgMdaWwV-Snr8VB99yqcUzEO34xziw7-Bw%3BFZUAGwMdP3Tj-Cl3ALv9MhaCUzGDemz9SCzAwA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.88443,-117.504295&sspn=1.945673,5.817261&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=8

( A ) MacKay, Alberta ---> (where TV was apprehended)

( B ) Nojack campground ---> (searched by LE)

( C ) New Searches ---> (dugout)

( D) Niton Junction, Alberta ---> (where TV grew up)

( E ) Carrot Creek, Alberta ---> (just a reference)

( F ) Peers, Alberta ---> (unconfirmed sightings of TV)

( G ) Range Road 144, Alberta ---> (where SUV was found hidden under trees)

( H ) Minnow Lake, Alberta ---> (where RV found burned)

( I ) Blue River, British Columbia ---> (first stop in the McCann's itinerary)
 
  • #322
Hazel said:
from Video 1:

The motorhome backing onto trees (as per fisherman statement) at the other Lake (Chip Lake) was NOT the McCanns
Click to expand...

Then the whereabouts of the motorhome and SUV on that day becomes once again a mystery.
 
  • #323
St Albert to Jasper 4.0 hrs 360 km.
St Albert to Valemont 5.25 hrs 480 km.
St Albert to Blue River 6.25 hrs 570 km.

However the motorhome would definitely need fuel to make the return trip. Many drivers would fill their vehicles and even more likely a motorhome driver in Alberta, eg; Edson, Hinton and less likely Jasper, because the cost of fuel is significantly less in Alberta than it is in BC.
The early reports on this site indicate the McCanns creditcards had not been used after St Albert. So I think it unlikely they stopped for fuel and hence probably did not leave Alberta. Its possible the perpetrators filled the vehicle perhaps with cash or their own credit card but that would seem high risk to me and why bother. I think the crime was most likely committed in Alberta close to that final camp site. I just wonder where it was for the missing day. As I mentioned there is a motorhome friendly fueling station/rest stop at Niton Junction.
 
  • #324
I researched the RV or Motor Home earlier, and according to the spec's,

The fuel tank on the RV a 1999 Gulf Sun Voyager 37 ft. is typically 80 gallons. I do not know if that is imperial gallons or US gallons, Imp. is what we use in Canada, and they are larger, but the RV I believe is mfg., in the USA, so it could well be US gallons.
It typically averages 10 miles to the gallon, that includes pulling a four door auto behind, so roughly 800 miles on a tank of fuel.

St. Albert to:
Tete Jaune Cache, B.C. junction of #16 and #5 286.5 miles (461 km) 5 hours 21 min.
Blue River BC: 354 miles (570km) 6hrs 34 min.
Minnow Lake, Alberta to:
Tete Jaune Cache, B.C. 197.6 miles (318km) 4 hr 2 min
Blue River B.C. is 265 miles (426km) 5 hrs and 14 min

So a trip from St. Albert to Blue River and back to Minnow Lake, 619 miles, approx. 11 hr. 48 min.
A trip from St. Albert to the Junct. of 16 and 5 and back to Minnow Lake, 484.1 miles, approx. 9 hrs and 23 min.

There are two places for RV's and travelers to pull over just West of Hinton, one is a permit pull in, and the other a rest area. I believe the McCann's from a past clip someone said they would not have stopped at a rest area I am not sure where I heard that. But since Lyle was a retired trucker he may have pulled into a permit checking place and it is not far East of the Rest Area, a little closer to Hinton.
There would have still been plenty of gas in the RV to get to
Blue River, or near there, or form the cut off onto Hwy 5 from 16 and then to turn around and go back to Minnow Lake Campground.

The other possiblity is that they, the perps took the RV and headed for Prince George to sell it. 456 miles (734 km) 8 hrs 50 min.
and back to Minnow Lake, 367 miles (590km) 7hrs 31 min. total 16 hrs 21 min. without doing anything else.
These long driving spells would be nothing to someone who is stoked on cocaine or crystal meth. From 10 am. on Saturday to 10 am on Sunday is 24 hours. What time did the RV pull into Minnow Lake Campground? Total of 823 miles so stretching the tank of fuel and it could be why they burned it because maybe it ran out of fuel, when they where trying to escape in the cut line. Maybe they got turned down at the scrap yard in Prince George. Somebody ought to do some detective work on that.
The 823 miles could be done on a tank of gas, because the figure of 10 miles to the gallon is specified as while towing a 4 door sedan vehicle. The SUV would have weighed considerabley less than that.

The idea of a motor home driving up and down the major highway, would mean it would fit right in, driving a motor home up and down back roads, would certainly draw attention. I think they the perps just drove it. Remember they think they are clever and above the law.

I still think they stopped somewhere between Hinton and Blue River and that their bodies will be found in the rocks or in the river along near Hinton or closer to the Junct. of Hwy 16 and 5.
Burning the RV, I do not believe was their intention.
It either got stuck, or it ran out of fuel.

Zort said:
St Albert to Jasper 4.0 hrs 360 km.
St Albert to Valemont 5.25 hrs 480 km.
St Albert to Blue River 6.25 hrs 570 km.

However the motorhome would definitely need fuel to make the return trip. Many drivers would fill their vehicles and even more likely a motorhome driver in Alberta, eg; Edson, Hinton and less likely Jasper, because the cost of fuel is significantly less in Alberta than it is in BC.
The early reports on this site indicate the McCanns creditcards had not been used after St Albert. So I think it unlikely they stopped for fuel and hence probably did not leave Alberta. Its possible the perpetrators filled the vehicle perhaps with cash or their own credit card but that would seem high risk to me and why bother. I think the crime was most likely committed in Alberta close to that final camp site. I just wonder where it was for the missing day. As I mentioned there is a motorhome friendly fueling station/rest stop at Niton Junction.
Click to expand...
 
  • #325
DEEA said:
There would have still been plenty of gas in the RV to get to Blue River, or near there, or form the cut off onto Hwy 5 from 16 and then to turn around and go back to Minnow Lake Campground.


These long driving spells would be nothing to someone who is stoked on cocaine or crystal meth. From 10 am. on Saturday to 10 am on Sunday is 24 hours. What time did the RV pull into Minnow Lake Campground? Total of 823 miles so stretching the tank of fuel and it could be why they burned it because maybe it ran out of fuel, when they where trying to escape in the cut line. Maybe they got turned down at the scrap yard in Prince George. Somebody ought to do some detective work on that.
The 823 miles could be done on a tank of gas, because the figure of 10 miles to the gallon is specified as while towing a 4 door sedan vehicle. The SUV would have weighed considerabley less than that.

The idea of a motor home driving up and down the major highway, would mean it would fit right in, driving a motor home up and down back roads, would certainly draw attention. I think they the perps just drove it. Remember they think they are clever and above the law.

I still think they stopped somewhere between Hinton and Blue River and that their bodies will be found in the rocks or in the river along near Hinton or closer to the Junct. of Hwy 16 and 5.
Click to expand...
respectfully snipped by me for brevity

That is exactly what I am thinking now that we know the McCanns were not the ones at Chip Lake. IMO they had no reason to stop so early at Niton Junction, they could have just driven for hours according to their plans. I feel they stopped for the night, and that's when the perps approached them. The question is WHERE? That is such a vast area!

If all the searches around Minnow Lake have yield nothing, it could be the perps had already disposed of them before pulling into the campground.
ITA with you that their bodies could be around the area you mentioned. This is all just too sad :(
Hazel said:
From witnesses statements at Minnow Lake

- Motor home first seen at Minnow Lake when it pulled in around supper time, on Sunday, July 4th (driver was not Mr. McCann).
Click to expand...

If perps were seen at Minnow Lake with both vehicles, and then the SUV was abandoned east of Minnow Lake, seems they were driving in the opposite direction as if they had made a U-turn somewhere.
I am wondering if no other tire tracks or footprints were found around the area where the SUV was located.
Seems obvious that the perps left in another vehicle. Was that 'other vehicle' also at Minnow Lake? Or did someone else picked them up from the location the SUV was found? Or did they leave on foot? From watching the second video, I am now not too sure Vader was one of them :confused: . LE seems to be very sure he was involved, though, and we know LE knows a lot more than what they tell us.

For the time being I'm not considering them going all the way to Prince George, IMO that would be too much of a stretch, besides only the SUV was allegedly seen there.
 
  • #326
For the time being I'm not considering them going all the way to Prince George, IMO that would be too much of a stretch, besides only the SUV was allegedly seen there
Click to expand...

Hazel you could well be right that it is a big stretch, but on the other hand even if they got as far as the pull in for the permits or the rest area, west of Hinton, or even all the way to Blue River, there is a lot time not accounted for. I wish we knew... I sure hope someone comes forward with some concrete evidence soon.

The SUV was seen in PG on the Thursday July 8th., three days after the RV burned. A young fellow on the McCann's FB page early on said that he saw the SUV in Prince George, at a scrap yard, but I cannot prove that because that was comment was removed almost right away, once Al got involved.
Makes me wonder. The MOTIVE will most likely be money. So why burn anything. The SUV was too hot to handle by the 13th of July... so they had to ditch it. Burning it would have only drawn attention to it.
 
  • #327
Alberta RCMP accused of bungling case of elderly couple missing since summer

Published On Wed Nov 10 2010

EDMONTON—The father of a man considered by RCMP as the primary suspect in the disappearance of an elderly Alberta couple says police have “bungled” the case.

Ed Vader told CTV Edmonton that his son Travis Vader, 38, was an “easy pick” for police for focus their efforts on.

He admits his son has had his troubles, has a short fuse and can be physically intimidating.

But he also says he’s talked to Travis and his son denies having any hand in what became of Lyle and Marie McCann.
Click to expand...
RSBM
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/888449--alberta-rcmp-accused-of-bungling-case-of-elderly-couple-missing-since-summer

(this seems to be from one of the videos, JMHO)
 
  • #328
I still think they stopped somewhere between Hinton and Blue River and that their bodies will be found in the rocks or in the river along near Hinton or closer to the Junct. of Hwy 16 and 5.
Burning the RV, I do not believe was their intention.
It either got stuck, or it ran out of fuel. [/QUOTE]
Thanks Deea,
You make a very good point. I imagine a partly full tank of fuel would make quite an explosion particularly as it is large. eg 800 gallons, and leave tell tale signs. Looking at the burn photo of the RV doesn't look to me as though it exploded. The frame is more or less intact. Where would the gas tank be. Front side rear. http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2010/07/14/edm-burned-rv.jpg
 
  • #329
On the RCMP's Alberta page, there is a list of events. One being the disappearance of the McCann's date listed as July 10th, here is that link:http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ab/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.htm
But when you click on that from the list, the date that is on the report of their being missing is July 7th. It is the RCMP St. Albert News Release. I called once to that detachment and mentioned it as well as some other things and still it has not been changed. I am wondering, if they have evidence that would indicate that the McCann's where seen or that there is some known something that brings them to using July 7th, rather than when they where reported missing on July 10th, or last seen July 3rd. But the question is, is there a reason that the LE would use the date of July 7th? I question was someone seen driving their SUV on July 7th, with them in it. I know this sounds shocking, or abstract, but... this whole case is. The link to the news release: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ab/news-nouvelles/100710_mccann_01-eng.htm

It also does not mention any thing about the found, and burned Motor Home. It just states that they and their vehicles where last seen at 9:00am on Sat. July 3rd. in St. Albert. So I guess that answers the questions I had about being seen. This is, Odd, Odd, Odd.....
 
  • #330
  • #331
The weather has changed, winter is here, snow is soon.
When i didn't pick up my dogs poop (i used to live in Manitoba) i noticed that areas around them would defrost quickly. Compost thing i guess.

Maybe when the thaw starts, it would be a good time to start searching. My elder parents like to drive from Manitoba to Bc, it would be so easy to loose them, they don't like cell phones.

I so hope Lyle and Marie reunite with their family
 
  • #332
  • #333
  • #334
Vader Family and where is Travis Vader's Biological Mother?

Where does Travis Vader's Biological Mother live? What is her surname now?
I have found someone in mind who looks very much like Travis Vader, but it is only a hunch, and there are pile of the same surnames in the St. Albert, Gladstone Cres. vicinity. Just a hunch, but if he has abandonment issues and it would appear that he might. He may well be raging against elders and others for this reason. He may have been somewhat stalking his biological mother and been in the McCann neighbouring neighbourhood for that reason. If the person I think is his mother actually is and actually lives there. Or who ever she is lives there. Then that would explain a bit more about this case.
  • Does anyone out there know her Surname now, and where she lived on July 3 2010?[/LIST]

    From Family tree online: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/v/a/d/Barbara-Vader/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0875.html

    Edward Robert Vader
    Edward Robert Vader (son of Edward Garret Vader and Elizabeth Powels).
    He married (1) Barbara Ann May.
    He married (2) Jennifer Mary E. Hicks.

    Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May:
    Children of Edward Robert Vader and Barbara Ann May are:
    Shane Michael Vader, b. September 4, 1968, d. December 2, 1982, Houston, Harris County,Texas.
    +Travis Edward Vader. [ I added: Born approx 1972]
    Bobbi-Jo Vader.

    Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks:
    Children of Edward Robert Vader and Jennifer Mary E. Hicks are:
    Alicia Kate Vader.
    Elizabeth Brooke Vader. [I added: no source, but I have heard that she died.]

    Things I have discovered:
    Class of 64’ I find Edward Robert Vader... Ardrossan Jr Sr High School, in Ardrossan Alberta. Not sure if he was born in Alberta or moved there and went to school there.
    Found an Edward R. Vader, born Oct 15 1946 don’t know year he’s in 58a RR 3 Box Weimer Texas.
    Edward R. Vader age 35 and Linda L. Lawrence age 37 married on April 23, 1982 in Montgomery, Texas
    Edward R. Vader age 37 and Jennifer M Hicks age 21 Married on 15 Jun 1984 in Fayette County Texas
    Alicia Vader was born in Colorado County Texas, to Edward Vader and Jennifer Hicks in 28 Apr 1984
    Looks like Ed Vader was in Niton Jnt. In 1995 by the telephone directory listings.
    From the Toronto Sun about Travis Vader: http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/07/19/14756441.html
    Vader attended high school in Niton Junction, about 45 km east of Edson, in the area where Lyle and Marie McCann's burned-out RV was discovered earlier this month.

    I realize this thread is not about Mr. Vader's parents, but it about finding the McCann's and I am presenting these informations in search of a link, that could give some sort of link to their disappearance.
 
  • #335
P.S. Elizabeth Brooke Vader is not dead, according to someone who somewhat knows the family.
 
  • #336
  • #337
Travis"s Mom Barbara Ann May was from Cremona Alberta. Has a wack of siblings.
 
  • #338
Any idea where his mum lives now? Canada? USA? Any chance she or her family knew any of the McCann Family? I believe I read somewhere last summer that one of Travis' elder children, a son or step-son, said that he thought the McCanns looked familiar, that he thought there was some connection somehow, between Travis and/or his family, and one or more of the McCann Family.
 
  • #339
I believe Edmonton Area.
 
  • #340
darth720 said:
I believe Edmonton Area.
Click to expand...

Do you know her now married name Darth? Just curious. Wondered if she may live in St. Albert, or maybe she would know something about the comings and goings of her son. Maybe she may hold some clues.

But I guess what really matters is where are Lyle and Marie McCann tonight.
 
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