GUILTY Canada - Melissa Richmond, 28, stabbed to death, Winchester, Ont, 24 July 2013

[matou]

No idea if she was on vacation, but this was taking place during the first week of an annual event that is held down in Butler County, PA, called Pennsic. Many local groups cancel their regular activities during the two weeks that Pennsic is occurring. Pennsic was early this year, right now would usually be the end of the first week of Pennsic.

However, I did see a post, either on the Help Find FB page, or on the page of some mutual friends where someone asked if she didn't show up for work the next day, and the reply was 'she was supposed to meet Howard at the old house at 11 am, and never showed up'. This lead me to think that her and Howard were supposed to fixing up the Queen street house to sell it.

Now, if you are the husband, and the wife goes off for a leisurely drive the night before at 11:30 pm, and nothing is wrong, and by the next morning she still isn't back, do you still wait until 11 am to push the panic button when she doesn't meet you for a scheduled 'meeting' somewhere else? I thought that that sentence right there indicated, at the very least, that HR and MR had a fight the night before, she left, and HR figured she was out cooling down, talking to friends, but when she didn't show up for a scheduled thing at the old house he got worried.

If she was "supposed to meet Howard at the old house at 11 am" that almost sounds as if they weren't even together anymore, IMO. Unless that statement is untrue, of course. Very strange for a couple to meet somewhere the next day if they are happily living together and she didn't come home at all the night before.

 

[Wondergirl]

No idea if she was on vacation, but this was taking place during the first week of an annual event that is held down in Butler County, PA, called Pennsic. Many local groups cancel their regular activities during the two weeks that Pennsic is occurring. Pennsic was early this year, right now would usually be the end of the first week of Pennsic.

However, I did see a post, either on the Help Find FB page, or on the page of some mutual friends where someone asked if she didn't show up for work the next day, and the reply was 'she was supposed to meet Howard at the old house at 11 am, and never showed up'. This lead me to think that her and Howard were supposed to fixing up the Queen street house to sell it.

Now, if you are the husband, and the wife goes off for a leisurely drive the night before at 11:30 pm, and nothing is wrong, and by the next morning she still isn't back, do you still wait until 11 am to push the panic button when she doesn't meet you for a scheduled 'meeting' somewhere else? I thought that that sentence right there indicated, at the very least, that HR and MR had a fight the night before, she left, and HR figured she was out cooling down, talking to friends, but when she didn't show up for a scheduled thing at the old house he got worried.

BBM: Thank-you.

The timing of these things being said would be critical, IMO.

If Howard was the one who indicated she was supposed to meet him at 11:00 a.m. the next day, was he buying himself some time? If he said that, when did he say it?

I'm sorry I've missed it, but, can someone tell me exactly what time and what day Melissa was called in as missing?

Who did Howard contact first and at what time?

 

[LurkingSpectator]

If she was "supposed to meet Howard at the old house at 11 am" that almost sounds as if they weren't even together anymore, IMO. Unless that statement is untrue, of course. Very strange for a couple to meet somewhere the next day if they are happily living together and she didn't come home at all the night before.

That's what I thought when I first saw that line! I thought 'wow, I didn't know they were living separately, but they must have been.' Ends up, I was wrong, they were still living together in the house on Summers Road.

But, according to the 'chatter' they were fixing up the Queen street house, and were meeting other people there who were going to help. My speculation on that was that Howard, Melissa and other people were all supposed to meet at the Queen Street house at 11 am. Not that Howard and Melissa were meeting each other. IF Howard didn't kill her, I could see him thinking when she didn't come home the night before that she was hanging out with friends, complaining about their fighting, etc., but she would definitely still show up at the old house, because it was beginning to sound like a very urgent thing to sell it quickly. Or, that is how he wanted to make it look when he went to the Queen Street house and she wasn't there. That is probably when he first told friends she was missing.

One of the Admins on the Help Find Page sent out a FB post on her mobile early that afternoon asking if anyone knew where Melissa was because the poster had to urgently get in touch with her and she didn't have her phone with her. I don't know what time that went out, but I'm guessing that Admin is one of the people who met at the house to work on it, and noticed MR didn't show up. Probably waited a few hours with HR, and then genuinely started looking and getting worried. JMO

 

[matou]

That's what I thought when I first saw that line! I thought 'wow, I didn't know they were living separately, but they must have been.' Ends up, I was wrong, they were still living together in the house on Summers Road.

But, according to the 'chatter' they were fixing up the Queen street house, and were meeting other people there who were going to help. My speculation on that was that Howard, Melissa and other people were all supposed to meet at the Queen Street house at 11 am. Not that Howard and Melissa were meeting each other. IF Howard didn't kill her, I could see him thinking when she didn't come home the night before that she was hanging out with friends, complaining about their fighting, etc., but she would definitely still show up at the old house, because it was beginning to sound like a very urgent thing to sell it quickly. Or, that is how he wanted to make it look when he went to the Queen Street house and she wasn't there. That is probably when he first told friends she was missing.

One of the Admins on the Help Find Page sent out a FB post on her mobile early that afternoon asking if anyone knew where Melissa was because the poster had to urgently get in touch with her and she didn't have her phone with her. I don't know what time that went out, but I'm guessing that Admin is one of the people who met at the house to work on it, and noticed MR didn't show up. Probably waited a few hours with HR, and then genuinely started looking and getting worried. JMO

Why didn't Howard send out that urgent message, I wonder? Does he not have a mobile phone too?

 

[LurkingSpectator]

BBM: Thank-you.

The timing of these things being said would be critical, IMO.

If Howard was the one who indicated she was supposed to meet him at 11:00 a.m. the next day, was he buying himself some time? If he said that, when did he say it?

I'm sorry I've missed it, but, can someone tell me exactly what time and what day Melissa was called in as missing?

Who did Howard contact first and at what time?

Unfortunately, Howard did not say anything publicly as to what happened. Everything attributed to Howard is through other sources, such as people saying 'he told me this....'. Even that information is sketchy, and the people he did talk directly to aren't talking now. Even back when MR was missing, anyone who asked things like 'where did they go that evening? Who were they with? Were they living together? etc.' were basically told by Admins that all that was speculation (just asking the questions) and was not to be discussed. I had some private conversations not on that FB page, where I was basically told the same thing, no details, and those details weren't relevant to MR being missing.

The quote about meeting at the 'old house' was a reply early on in the Help Find FB page and it was in response to someone asking if Howard realized she was missing because she didn't show up for work or something. One of the Admins, the first one to send out any kind of general Social Media messaging asking people if they knew where Melissa was, was the person who replied to that question saying 'she was supposed to meet Howard at the old house at 11 am ...' This post was early on the Friday morning, when the page had been set up.

That Admin sent out a social media message early Thursday afternoon, but I don't have the time stamp. Howard commented on that post around 3:25 pm, because I remember seeing it, asking 'Anything yet?' and she replied 'No, nothing'. Then, at 5 pm, one of the other Admins did a post on her FB saying MR was missing, and could everyone please keep an eye out for her and her car.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

Why didn't Howard send out that urgent message, I wonder? Does he not have a mobile phone too?

Howard sent out many 'thank you''s in response to posts on his FB page and on the Help Find page via mobile, so yes, I think he had mobile capability.

I'm sure that an argument could be made that he would not be taking the lead in sounding the alarm because his PTSD would have made him a nervous wreck by that time, and he wouldn't be capable of doing much except sob hysterically in a ball in the corner of a room. But, as I have said before, no one is really talking about details, and now that charges have been laid, I'm pretty sure they are under orders from LE to not discuss the case with anyone, especially each other or other potential material witnesses, hence, the cone of silence that has come down around them all.

I feel very badly for all the friends, of both Melissa's and Howards. It is extremely difficult to go through something like this, and NOT be able to talk about it. I know from experience.

 

[Psalms_23]

According to Forces.ca
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/pr-sol/rfncmr-mrfr-eng.asp

HR was making between 6,000 and 6,200 per month. Plus, there's a domestic daily allowance on top of that. You can find the information on the same site. We know MR was also working. It's not clear whether the first house was paid off. Being allowed to take out a 139,000 line of credit on a house they paid 116,000 for seems out of place unless it was paid for, or mostly paid for. Especially when you add the new mortgage of 296,000 into the equation. But then again, banks have done dumber things which we're all still paying for.

Because we don't know whether the first house was paid for it's really hard to know if they did in fact get in over their heads with the loans. I'm speaking in terms of income vs. loan payment amounts. We do know something went horribly wrong, over spending may be? This based on the fact they were being sued for the line of credit, 141,000. There's also the question of down payment
money on the new mortgage. That's a minimum of 20 percent on the 296,000. It's not allowed, as far as I know, to take that from credit cards. If they paid off the old house that doesn't seem to leave a lot of money left to save 20 percent for a 296,000 loan. So, may be a personal loan?

All in all it's clear HR and MR got themselves into a mess of trouble with their finances, somehow. Being sued by a bank for 141,000 is no small basket of eggs.

I know from experience, having been married to someone with PTSD, due to the first Gulf war, they can make some very bad choices with finances. My ex had no troubles at all landing me in BR court due to irrational spending, behind my back, off credit cards. But the PTSD really doesn't say much about the financial choices. People without PTSD can get themselves in as much or more trouble with finances. It would only mean something if HR had a lifelong history of being financially responsible up until he was diagnosed with PTSD.

 

[Lise-Anne]

Hi Lise-Anne, I don't speak French, unfortunately and shame on me, I know, so I can't tell what the voice over is saying, but do they say that is her car? I'm asking, because I don't think it is. It looks very much like a pic that one of the admins posted on the Help Find FB page as a picture of a car that was very 'similar' to MR's, so that people knew which kind of car they were looking for. {respectfully snipped}

The reporter says her body was recovered meters away from where her car was, and I assumed it was *the* car, but you are absolutely right, it was not. It also seemed strange to me that there was no crime scene tape, etc., etc., but I still assumed that it could have been. My mistake.

On closer look afterward, I also noticed that Melissa's car on Queen Street from Google had no side window deflectors, and the car shown in the video had some.

Sorry for the wrong info.:doh:

 

[otto]

BBM: Thank-you.

The timing of these things being said would be critical, IMO.

If Howard was the one who indicated she was supposed to meet him at 11:00 a.m. the next day, was he buying himself some time? If he said that, when did he say it?

I'm sorry I've missed it, but, can someone tell me exactly what time and what day Melissa was called in as missing?

Who did Howard contact first and at what time?

The Wicca professor said that when Melissa didn't return after an hour and then didn't turn up at her parents home in Petawawa (200+ km away) and then they didn't hear from her after 12 hours, then the alarm bells went off.

I'll see if I can find the quote.

Gone for an hour ... but the bells didn't go off for another 12 hours when family members (meaning the husband?) realized that she wasn't in Petawawa - 216 km away? That would be enough to raise the eyebrows of any investator.

"We really thought she had just bugged out to be with a friend or something, or, that she had run off into a ditch and been injured,” Rabinovitch said. “Absolutely nobody assumed that a loved one goes away for an hour and is the victim of random violence.”

...

Alarm bells went off about 12 hours later, when family members realized she hadn’t made her way to Petawawa, where her military family resides, and she wasn’t with friends."

http://www.insideottawavalley.com/n...rth-dundas-woman-as-south-keys-murder-victim/

 

[otto]

The surrogate mother describes Melissa as "we really thought that she had just bugged out ..."

I haven't really heard that phrase before. What does "bugged out" mean?

 

[Public_Hysteria]

The surrogate mother describes Melissa as "we really thought that she had just bugged out ..."

I haven't really heard that phrase before. What does "bugged out" mean?

King of like losing your mind, or going a bit crazy or freaking out for a bit.

 

[Lise-Anne]

In the same interview.

“We really thought she had just bugged out to be with a friend or something…", Rabinovitch said.

"Richmond had been in good spirits when she left her home south of Winchester, she said goodbye to her husband before leaving without her cellphone," Rabinovitch said.

So, which was it, in good spirits or bugged out..??



http://www.insideottawavalley.com/n...rth-dundas-woman-as-south-keys-murder-victim/

 

[echodale]

The surrogate mother describes Melissa as "we really thought that she had just bugged out ..."

I haven't really heard that phrase before. What does "bugged out" mean?

I was going to say it means to act erratic, as in like a bug that flies here and there unpredictably.

The free dictionary says this:

bug out Slang
1. To leave or quit, usually in a hurry.
2. To avoid a responsibility or duty. Often used with on or of: bugged out on his partners at the first sign of trouble.​

Which led me to think of the news article where it said that MR went for an hour drive, ''...which friends said was not unusual''. I thought I remembered STR being to one who said that but I don't know for sure which friend said it.


But, here is a news article that has a friend saying that it WAS unusual for MR to go for a late night drive: ''Her purse was still inside, according to family friends, who said it wouldn’t have been like her to drive that far at night.''

 

[kmclaren]

The surrogate mother describes Melissa as "we really thought that she had just bugged out ..."

I haven't really heard that phrase before. What does "bugged out" mean?

King of like losing your mind, or going a bit crazy or freaking out for a bit.

My x-dh was Canadian military and it was a term they used. If they had to "bug out" meant they had to quickly pack their gear and get to the base, very short notice, usually late at night. I didn't read it as her freaking out, I assumed it had come from HR's vocabulary?

 

[Psalms_23]

In the same interview.

“We really thought she had just bugged out to be with a friend or something…", Rabinovitch said.

"Richmond had been in good spirits when she left her home south of Winchester, she said goodbye to her husband before leaving without her cellphone," Rabinovitch said.

So, which was it, in good spirits or bugged out..??



http://www.insideottawavalley.com/n...rth-dundas-woman-as-south-keys-murder-victim/

From day one STR sailed the ship with the group to help find MR, with the media, and was constantly telling everyone NOT to speak to the media about HR and MR. STR continued to be very adamant about this all the way up until the group was deleted. STR took all the media hits, both written and video. Up until HR came forward for a voice only interview with one of the networks. Spinning a tale of 'fairy tale' proportions about their relationship.

Even the best marriages have their rainy days. Not only was it being spun that they had a great marriage but it was being spun as this 'fairy tale' better than the best marriage. The kind of marriage all little girls dream of some day having. And then, we grow up.

May be it's just my over active mind, but it felt like a web was being spun from the day one.

MR is innocent until proven guilty. I just have to say that all the story spinning didn't do anything, in my mind, to help make him look innocent. If I were a police investigator it would cause the 'red flags' to fly high.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Okay Otto, I understand what you are saying, so please don't take this as not agreeing with you, it's just some clarification, if I can. People with PTSD do NOT make good decisions. Especially financially. Trust me, I have personal experience with it, and I've seen it with others. I have no idea why, it makes no sense to me, but it's like they throw common sense away! I've asked therapists why this happens, and they hand me medical jargon about the receptors in the brain being affected by the chemical outlay of the emotional blockage caused by PTSD, etc. affecting decision making capabilities, and so on. I don't understand it, but I do get that YES the ability to make a logical, sound financial decision is non existent in most Combat PTSD sufferers.

Obviously PTSD stands on it's own - and I really appreciate your insights, Lurking - but I wanted to add a bit of semi-support. I've seen people with depression run up debts trying to make themselves feel better (everything from holidays to new clothes to personal trainers) and get into a spiral where the debt increases the level of depression/stress and thus the need to feel better....

So I can certainly see how that might extend to someone with PTSD, particularly if they're desperate to construct a "normality".

 

[otto]

Kind of like losing your mind, or going a bit crazy or freaking out for a bit.

Thank you. That's an odd way of describing a wife that is supposedly calm, happy and just going for a drive to unwind.

 

[otto]

I was going to say it means to act erratic, as in like a bug that flies here and there unpredictably.

The free dictionary says this:

bug out Slang
1. To leave or quit, usually in a hurry.
2. To avoid a responsibility or duty. Often used with on or of: bugged out on his partners at the first sign of trouble.​

Which led me to think of the news article where it said that MR went for an hour drive, ''...which friends said was not unusual''. I thought I remembered STR being to one who said that but I don't know for sure which friend said it.


But, here is a news article that has a friend saying that it WAS unusual for MR to go for a late night drive: ''Her purse was still inside, according to family friends, who said it wouldn’t have been like her to drive that far at night.''

From the beginning, I thought that it sounded odd that, after spending a day with friends and finally having time to relax quietly at home, Melissa's idea of relaxing was apparently to go for a drive in the middle of the night. I don't know anyone that finds night driving on unlit rural roads relaxing. That activity always demands that the driver be more alert.

We've been told that she was happy, but she was "bugged out". She likes night driving on rural roads to relax. She was gone for an hour, but there was some question about whether she was going to Petawawa - more than 200 km away. She left at 11:30 PM (per the husband) and he wasn't concerned until 11 AM the following day.

If the PTSD diagnosis is going to play a role in the consequences for murder, then the husband will have to plead that he was temporarily insane, and that he suddenly came to his senses and decided to cover up the murder. Somehow, I don't think that will fly.

 

[otto]

My x-dh was Canadian military and it was a term they used. If they had to "bug out" meant they had to quickly pack their gear and get to the base, very short notice, usually late at night. I didn't read it as her freaking out, I assumed it had come from HR's vocabulary?

Thanks. So that would suggest that she abruptly ran out of the house ... but still, that seems to contradict the suggestion that everything was fine when she left.

 

[Kbeb]

Thanks. So that would suggest that she abruptly ran out of the house ... but still, that seems to contradict the suggestion that everything was fine when she left.

Well, he had to paint a 'rosey' picture.


I wonder if perhaps they had an argument, and she may have said she was going to the other home to get away. The homes are about 2 miles apart.