CANADA Canada - Rhonda Running Bird, 25, Swan Lake Rec Area AB, 26 March 1995

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  • #21
Alta said:
One of my old bosses works for Cn Rail,I am going to email him and ask him.I think the chances are slight that this jane doe is Rhonda,everything seems to be off as per the description.But its worth a shot.I will let you know what I find out about the rail lines doc.
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Thank you. I appreciate your efforts.
 
  • #22
Alta said:
. . .Doc did you see the pictures of the area they searched for Rhonda?
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No I did not see the pics but I have learned to never totally discount the possibility of a body being missed in a search of an area. I suppose she could be out there and was simply missed.
It would not surprise me.
 
  • #23
If you go to this link there are some pics of the area searched,there are 2 pages in all.You can see what a brush and tree filled area it is.Easy for animals to drag the body off or for a person to drag in and leave.

http://tinyurl.com/39rnpl
 
  • #24
Okay, I've been thinking, and I'm not sold on the rail thing at all unless someone was with her. Think about it, she would most likely have to jump onto more than one train to get there, and then get off. With her condition, I don't think this would be very likely.

And it is VERY VERY COLD in Northern Alberta during that time of year. So one should expect that people would be wearing more than one layer of clothing. But the shoe story is odd. My husband and I wear the same respective sized shoes, and there is no way on this earth that I could get my shoe on or over his. And who in their right minds would take an 18 month old baby into that kind of cold -- let alone keep it there for three days when they could have walked out easily (site says the truck was stuck within a mile of the main road.

And I think there is something fishy about that aunt too. Nothing of her story makes sense. Rhonda was described as being woods-saavy, and anyone that is really would not leave in the dark on a very cold night and try to walk that far. And she would have known that she was not well enough to do it anyway.

The police must also know her really well if they knew that the glasses they found could not be hers. Makes one wonder just how much contact they have had with this family in the past. I know that it said the colostomy bag was the result of a beating -- do we know who beat her up? And colostomy bags are NOT something you would find just laying around. They are usually a home-medical supply type of thing that you usually have to have a prescription for. It also usually limits the activities that you do as well.

It seems to me like she should have no reason to be out in that type of area with her toddler anyway -- would one suspect that she was in some way "forced" out there against her better judgement?
 
  • #25
ITA kygal.I think it is just a coincidence another bady was found with a coloscopy bag.Even if the rail line does run from the areas it does not mean that it run by that area the truck was stuck in.her mother stated she could barely walk I cannot imagine her just hopping on a train.

I had read up on this case years ago,and I read somewhere her injuries were from her husband.I will have to go and dig to find this again.This is only my opinion but I believe she was in an abusive relationship,she was hurt.I believe she was forced out on this hunting trip or god forbid something happened to her beforehand and this was a trip to dump her off.What kind of loving husband reports his wife missing than just disappears for 3 days.He never helps search for her,not once, not ever.And as I stated before I do not believe she would take off and leave behind all her children to fend for themselves.




kygal said:
Okay, I've been thinking, and I'm not sold on the rail thing at all unless someone was with her. Think about it, she would most likely have to jump onto more than one train to get there, and then get off. With her condition, I don't think this would be very likely.

And it is VERY VERY COLD in Northern Alberta during that time of year. So one should expect that people would be wearing more than one layer of clothing. But the shoe story is odd. My husband and I wear the same respective sized shoes, and there is no way on this earth that I could get my shoe on or over his. And who in their right minds would take an 18 month old baby into that kind of cold -- let alone keep it there for three days when they could have walked out easily (site says the truck was stuck within a mile of the main road.

And I think there is something fishy about that aunt too. Nothing of her story makes sense. Rhonda was described as being woods-saavy, and anyone that is really would not leave in the dark on a very cold night and try to walk that far. And she would have known that she was not well enough to do it anyway.

The police must also know her really well if they knew that the glasses they found could not be hers. Makes one wonder just how much contact they have had with this family in the past. I know that it said the colostomy bag was the result of a beating -- do we know who beat her up? And colostomy bags are NOT something you would find just laying around. They are usually a home-medical supply type of thing that you usually have to have a prescription for. It also usually limits the activities that you do as well.

It seems to me like she should have no reason to be out in that type of area with her toddler anyway -- would one suspect that she was in some way "forced" out there against her better judgement?
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  • #26
Does anyone have any idea just how much of the area they searched? I know it could be overlooked, but I just was wondering if they searched in the area (like a circular perimeter) or if they just started looking in the direction the aunt told them she went.

I still think that the aunt knows her story makes no sense. I think that Rhonda was out there against her will and that the husband knows EXACTLY where she is. And until (or sadly if) he decides to talk then we'll know for sure. It seems like one cover up after another and a bunch of police officers that either know the family too well, or botched it all together.
 
  • #27
kygal said:
Think about it, she would most likely have to jump onto more than one train to get there, and then get off. With her condition, I don't think this would be very likely.
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CN operates a "T" shaped main line across North America, its trains travel through Canada east to west from cost to coast, and from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico following the Mississippi River to New Orleans with a spur line to Mobile, Alabama. It's the largest railroad operator in the central US and the second largest in the country. Any train using CN tracks could theoretically travel from Alberta to southern Illinois without ever stopping but that's unlikely; on such a route some cars would be taken off the train and some others would be added and this requires stops at rail yards along the way. Same goes for crew changes.

Anyway, I agree that it's very unlikely that a sick person would survive such a journey in very difficult conditions, if she had been aboard she would likely have gotten off after a few hours, not wait 2 days. Unless of course she had gotten herself locked inside a boxcar, but then that would create the mystery of how she had managed to open the door in the middle of nowhere.

And it is VERY VERY COLD in Northern Alberta during that time of year. So one should expect that people would be wearing more than one layer of clothing. But the shoe story is odd. My husband and I wear the same respective sized shoes, and there is no way on this earth that I could get my shoe on or over his. And who in their right minds would take an 18 month old baby into that kind of cold -- let alone keep it there for three days when they could have walked out easily (site says the truck was stuck within a mile of the main road.

And I think there is something fishy about that aunt too. Nothing of her story makes sense. Rhonda was described as being woods-saavy, and anyone that is really would not leave in the dark on a very cold night and try to walk that far. And she would have known that she was not well enough to do it anyway.

The police must also know her really well if they knew that the glasses they found could not be hers. Makes one wonder just how much contact they have had with this family in the past. I know that it said the colostomy bag was the result of a beating -- do we know who beat her up? And colostomy bags are NOT something you would find just laying around. They are usually a home-medical supply type of thing that you usually have to have a prescription for. It also usually limits the activities that you do as well.

It seems to me like she should have no reason to be out in that type of area with her toddler anyway -- would one suspect that she was in some way "forced" out there against her better judgement?
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Those are the reasons why I'm not sure the website has the story straight, there seems to be a few important pieces of the puzzle that are missing.
 
  • #28
kygal said:
Okay, I've been thinking, and I'm not sold on the rail thing at all unless someone was with her. . . .
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That's fine. I am not selling anything so not being sold is cool. (Friendly smile.)

I am, however, suggesting that until it has been properly investigated and ruled out by evidence that it remains a possibility. I can think of more than one way it might have come about that her body turned up far away and have seen nothing yet that rules it to be impossible. It is easy to say something seems unlikely to us but that is not the same as someone investigating and then us knowing one way or the other based on facts.

It seems we have bodies of about the same size with a rail line running fairly directly between the two geographic areas involved and both descriptions mention a colostomy bag. Beyond that we have only vague details. A body found that was evidently there more than 2 years but no outside guess even of how long beyond 2 years (probably not easy to know.)

I actually am not worried about whether the broken truck was found anywhere near a rail line or not since I have no hard info that anyone saw her on that trip in the truck with them just prior to her disappearance.
She may have already been dead and her body either stored or sent on its way to be dumped somewhere and the whole truck thing may have been staged to set up the area for L.E. to look, which of course would not be where she really was at all.

I wonder who last saw her alive other then the husband and his blood relatives and when this was.

The possibility of the truck thing being staged holds true even if the body found in Illinois turns out to not be her. It too is possible until evidence surfaces to rule it out. According to the website info, the truck was not seen by anyone until at least 5 days after the alleged time of her disappearance- there was the night she allegedly disappeared and then one more night until they returned home and then 3 more nights until husband was located and L.E. got taken to the truck by the husband. And on top of all that we do not know for sure that she was ever with them on this little trip or that the truck was not purposely stranded days later and far from where any real crime took place.

Or it is possible it all happened just as the husband and his aunt said it did.

I am just looking at the possibilities and saying things need to be investigated more and the body with the colostomy bag is just one of those things that needs looking into and then to be ruled either in or out.
 
  • #29
kygal said:
And it is VERY VERY COLD in Northern Alberta during that time of year.
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I Googled the location of Swan Lake and it appears that the info given locating it in northern Alberta is incorrect. It's actually located 150 miles northwest of Calgary near Banff National Park, in the Rockies.That would then be in the southern third of Alberta, further south than Edmonton. It's about 200 miles north of the border with Montana.

Not the tropics yet but nothing like the subarctic climate one would find 1000 miles from there in the actual north of the province. I couldn't find any climatological data for Swan Lake itself but in Calgary temps in late March hover around 50 degrees daytime to mid-30's at night. For comparison, it's very similar to Denver, CO. Swan Lake is at a higher altitude than Calgary though, so likely to be colder, but a train heading east would quickly be descending to more hospitable zones.

I'm only posting this to demonstrate that it's possible to get from Alberta to Illinois (or even Louisiana) by rail because there happens to be a major direct rail route between these areas. Personally, I do not think that such a journey is likely in this case, for a variety of reasons.
 
  • #30
Still too cold for someone who is sick and a baby -- especially if that year the weather took a cold spell. I'm not at all familiar with the area (and I googled it too -- there are days when paper maps are much better -- however you are right about that area being incorrect).

Did anyone else look at the geocities link that is on Rhonda's page at Doe? It has pictures of all the children ("Please help US find OUR mother") and while I don't think the composite of JD looks like Rhonda -- it DOES look very similar to the children -- especially the oldest daughter. Perhaps if she had a straight face photo (looking directly into the camera) it may look more like her. I wish the composite was 3-D. Maybe we'd get a better idea of how this JD looked in real live. Actually, I think with adding more weight to the face, it could look very much like her.
 
  • #31
kygal said:
Still too cold for someone who is sick and a baby -- especially if that year the weather took a cold spell. I'm not at all familiar with the area (and I googled it too -- there are days when paper maps are much better -- however you are right about that area being incorrect).

Did anyone else look at the geocities link that is on Rhonda's page at Doe? It has pictures of all the children ("Please help US find OUR mother") and while I don't think the composite of JD looks like Rhonda -- it DOES look very similar to the children -- especially the oldest daughter. Perhaps if she had a straight face photo (looking directly into the camera) it may look more like her. I wish the composite was 3-D. Maybe we'd get a better idea of how this JD looked in real live. Actually, I think with adding more weight to the face, it could look very much like her.
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I agree it's too cold for someone who's not in good shape and not dressed appropriately. Actually if we are to believe the husband and aunt she wasn't even dressed properly for the area they were at to start with. I don't know anyone who'd venture out in the Rockies that time of year wearing tennis shoes, you'd need hiking or rubber boots at the very least. BTW she did not have her baby with her, as far as I know the baby is alive.

As for the resemblance with JD, Rhonda was a Native woman and JD was thought possibly Hispanic if I recall well. I believe Native features are common with Hispanic people, perhaps common enough for them to be hard to tell apart once a body is reduced to bones. Maybe the authorities in Illinois only assumed JD was Hispanic because Hispanics are much more common than Natives in that part of the country?

If this is the case then there would be three connections between both cases: direct rail route, presence of a colostomy bag, and ethnicity. Somewhat compelling but the train ride remains one tall hurdle to jump over. There is also the fact that JD was reportedly found near Norfolk Southern tracks, not Canadian National. However this may either be a mistake or not matter much because according to rail systems maps both companies have tracks that run along each other in southern Illinois. In fact they probably do business with each other since Norfolk Southern would have to rely on Canadian National for any shipping of freight further south of Carbondale.

One factor that does not support the theory however, apart from the weather, is the fact that Swan Lake is located 40 miles of the nearest rail line, either north or south.
 
  • #32
Bumping

missing 13 years now
 
  • #33
  • #34
  • #35
Alberta now has a Provinicial Missing Website. Here is the link. Praying Rhonda will be found safe one day.

http://www.albertamissingpersons.ca/

On behalf of all police agencies within the Province of Alberta and the Chief Medical Examiner's office, welcome to the Alberta Missing Persons and Unidentified Human Remains Website.

As you are aware, there is a growing interest across Canada regarding the response to missing person cases. I am proud to say that Alberta is considered a leader within this area. As far back as 2003, an integrated and collaborative approach was taken with other Albertan and Western Canadian police agencies in the development of the High Risk Missing Persons Project (H.R.M.P.P.) which resulted in Project KARE. The launch of this website is another example of Alberta police and other government agencies' commitment in providing a collaborative, consistent and leading edge approach in dealing with all missing person cases while serving the citizens of Alberta.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1494dfab.html
Rhonda Runningbird
 
  • #36
I really think the UID that Synthia posted up there a while ago fits. Can someone call it in?
 
  • #37
I don't really see how this could be her as where she was last seen in Alberta to where the remains were found is over 1,400 miles away. I suppose someone could have kidnapped her and taken her there. Anything is possible it seems. It would be nice for her family to have closure.
 
  • #38
luckyducky said:
I don't really see how this could be her as where she was last seen in Alberta to where the remains were found is over 1,400 miles away. I suppose someone could have kidnapped her and taken her there. Anything is possible it seems. It would be nice for her family to have closure.
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The husband and his aunt did have 72 hours, to dump her body, maybe driving that far is what blew the motor? Mmmmm.....

I will go see if there is a thread for this Jane ( http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/533ufil.html ) posted by synthia1021 and see about side by side pics... I'll come back and post the thread link....
 
  • #39
  • #40
Dozens of searches over 15 years have failed to offer leads on what happened to Rhonda Running Bird.

One time, they found a few scraps of clothing but don’t know for sure they belonged to the 25-year-old who went missing while on a hunting trip with her common-law husband in 1995.

Still, she is not forgotten by family and friends holding a memorial on Saturday.

Barb Wiebe said Running Bird, who recently become a grandma when one of her three children gave birth, leaves behind a family pained by the mystery of her disappearance.

“We are still looking to find her remains, we just hope she is one of those people where you hear about where someone stumbled across her remains or they found a grave,” said Wiebe, a family friend.

“We always believed she was murdered ... we don’t believe she just up and left.”

Twenty-five-year Running Bird was reported missing on March 26 by her common-law husband, Fred Lagrelle.

{snip}

The story will air on America’s Most Wanted and ultimately the family hopes to put Rhonda to rest by giving her a proper burial on her Sikska First Nation home.

The memorial will be held Saturday at 2 p.m. in Tsuu T’ina Nation.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/03/24/13345531.html
 
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