GUILTY Canada - Rori Hache, 18, pregnant, found deceased, Oshawa, Ont, 29 Aug 2017

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

But that's what I'm saying, even if he was an aider or an abettor, meaning someone else conducted the physical murder, he can still be charged. It's likely that he isn't giving up any information, and Rori isn't here to say what happened, so they are likely unsure on what degree of murder to charge him with.

They have to be able to prove she was indeed murdered. His defense will be that she OD'd and he panicked, which one of his Facebook defenders already pushed. With so much time passed and damage to her body, proving a COD might be difficult.

Ultimately, IMO, it doesn't matter a whole lot, he'll be lucky if he lives long enough to make it to trial.

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[photographer4]

Hi, new here. Have been reading comments on this case.
I had a thought on the reason why more charges haven't been announced to date.
It's quite possible LE has found other DNA at the scene linking other missing people.

I respectfully disagree. If they had evidence that AS committed this murder, or any other, they wouldn't wait. They'd go ahead and charge him and continue to add charges as evidence surfaced to support further charges on other victims. Bruce McArthur was charged with murder based on photographic evidence (it was in the news last night). They added more charges as more evidence became available and expect even more charges in the future. If police had the evidence to support that AS committed any crime beyond an indignity to a human body, they'd go ahead and hit him with charges accordingly. They wouldn't wait. What is the benefit of waiting? It doesn't mean less paperwork.....

 

[Grey-St]

Hi Chilliblue --
yes, it's possible there is much more for LE to sort and so they're being carefully methodical in taking their time
-- dotting and crossing their letters, as Iclabtech suggests above But if so that's a notable depature from LE in TO who have now charged the alleged serial killer Bruce MCArthur with multiple counts of murder on finding body parts across several of the properties with which he is associated. (At the same time, it appears that LE in that case had to "act fast" since there was another potential victim at risk: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...hur-to-protect-life-of-young-man-sources.html .) There are many dissimilarities across the cases (LE was surveiling McArthur and I don't believe that's true of Strong, for example) so it's perhaps not useful to make comparisons.
Still, perhaps the evidence against the former is more straightforward than the latter?

TPS have found additional evidence to support that McArthur killed these men, thus they laying of the murder charges. DPS have a lot to go through to establish what exactly happened, and maybe they haven't come across the compelling evidence yet that TPS have, or they are still sifting through it all.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://oshawaexpress.ca/man-charged-in-connection-to-rori-hache-murder-still-seeking-council/

Man charged in connection to Rori Hache murder still seeking council

January 30, 2018


"In the meantime, Dionne says she will continue to attend all of Strong’s court dates, where so far, she has sat front row, surrounded by supporters, as she stares down the man arrested in connection to her daughter’s murder.

“I want the judge to see I’m committed to this case,” she said.

Strong is expected back in court on Feb. 6."

 

[Tadpole12]

They have to be able to prove she was indeed murdered. His defense will be that she OD'd and he panicked, which one of his Facebook defenders already pushed. With so much time passed and damage to her body, proving a COD might be difficult.

Ultimately, IMO, it doesn't matter a whole lot, he'll be lucky if he lives long enough to make it to trial.

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I was thinking along similar lines wrt possible defense,
but RH was pregnant at the time?

Also wondering about AS's mental health assessment.
When is that addressed in the legal process?

 

[andreww]

I was thinking along similar lines wrt possible defense,
but RH was pregnant at the time?

Good question. I think originally she told her mom that she "thought" she "might" be pregnant. I don't think anything has shown that she went for a test. Money was tight for her, so I don't think she would spring for an expensive home test.

Also wondering about AS's mental health assessment.
When is that addressed in the legal process?

Likely won't be one. If he were going to go the "Not criminally responsible" route, he'd need one. However I highly doubt that would be the case.

 

[photographer4]

I was thinking along similar lines wrt possible defense,
but RH was pregnant at the time?

Also wondering about AS's mental health assessment.
When is that addressed in the legal process?

What mental health assessment? Unless he shows signs of being unable to understand what he is charged with / what he did / his role in the events, it’s not likely he will be ordered to undergo any mental health assessment. At least not as far as his trial goes. If he aims for mental incompetence then they may but otherwise, it may be left out of legal proceedings. I’ll add that it’s possible if he starts with suicidal ideation or an attempt they may order one but even if they did, odds are we wouldn’t hear about it.

 

[andreww]

I respectfully disagree. If they had evidence that AS committed this murder, or any other, they wouldn't wait. They'd go ahead and charge him and continue to add charges as evidence surfaced to support further charges on other victims. Bruce McArthur was charged with murder based on photographic evidence (it was in the news last night). They added more charges as more evidence became available and expect even more charges in the future. If police had the evidence to support that AS committed any crime beyond an indignity to a human body, they'd go ahead and hit him with charges accordingly. They wouldn't wait. What is the benefit of waiting? It doesn't mean less paperwork.....

Not true. McArthur had apparantly kept info about his victims on his computer. That made LE's job pretty simple. However, more charges will come as the investigation continues. McArthur is also talking to police. Strong on the other hand is likely saying nothing. Its likely going to be a tougher road for DRP because Strong likely acted alone, so there would be no evidence of planning, and since Rori didn't have a phone, tracking the movements of the two of them would be impossible. What generally happens in a case like this is that it would be plead down to M2 or Manslaughter in exchange for a confession, but I don't think LE, the Family or the public would go for that.

 

[andreww]

They have to be able to prove she was indeed murdered. His defense will be that she OD'd and he panicked, which one of his Facebook defenders already pushed. With so much time passed and damage to her body, proving a COD might be difficult.

Ultimately, IMO, it doesn't matter a whole lot, he'll be lucky if he lives long enough to make it to trial.

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BBM, since this guy had body parts in his house all this time, I think it very probable that Rori was frozen or else the smell would have been unbearable. Toxicology tests on the torso were in conclusive and the coroner stated drugs in her system would be non existent after 30 days. I wonder if the frozen samples will yield a more definitive answer? They may not tell us how she died, but they may be able to tell us that she didn't OD.

That becomes important if he did in fact tell EV that she overdosed as he claims. How did she die? Why is he lying about it? Can he now state that she died accidentally during BDSM activity? Sure, but now he is on his second story, and the chance of a jury believing him becomes less likely.

 

[Grey-St]

Not true. McArthur had apparantly kept info about his victims on his computer. That made LE's job pretty simple. However, more charges will come as the investigation continues. McArthur is also talking to police. Strong on the other hand is likely saying nothing. Its likely going to be a tougher road for DRP because Strong likely acted alone, so there would be no evidence of planning, and since Rori didn't have a phone, tracking the movements of the two of them would be impossible. What generally happens in a case like this is that it would be plead down to M2 or Manslaughter in exchange for a confession, but I don't think LE, the Family or the public would go for that.

How do you know McArthur is talking?

But I agree, these two investigations are entirely different.

 

[chrrybnn]

A key reason to why he can’t be charged with murder, is because they need to link the connection between RH and AS. It’s all hearsay that GJ is that connection for sure as of yet. EV was spewing off his mouth so we know he knows something at least.


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[keeleydoll]

Good question. I think originally she told her mom that she "thought" she "might" be pregnant. I don't think anything has shown that she went for a test. Money was tight for her, so I don't think she would spring for an expensive home test.



Likely won't be one. If he were going to go the "Not criminally responsible" route, he'd need one. However I highly doubt that would be the case.

Our Everything’s a Dollar stores and Walmarts where I live sell pregnancy tests that are literally the same as a clinic uses for a dollar or less. I would assume there is something similar in Canada.

Source: I have 5 kids and friends who are a midwife and dr who provides prenatal care


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[photographer4]

Not true. McArthur had apparantly kept info about his victims on his computer. That made LE's job pretty simple. However, more charges will come as the investigation continues. McArthur is also talking to police. Strong on the other hand is likely saying nothing. Its likely going to be a tougher road for DRP because Strong likely acted alone, so there would be no evidence of planning, and since Rori didn't have a phone, tracking the movements of the two of them would be impossible. What generally happens in a case like this is that it would be plead down to M2 or Manslaughter in exchange for a confession, but I don't think LE, the Family or the public would go for that.

To be clear what I disagreed with was that they’re waiting on evidence of more crimes to come up before slapping more charges on. I believe they’ll charge him as evidence becomes available even if that means multiple charges of many weeks or months etc.

 

[Grey-St]

Can we keep Facebook conjecture on Facebook? I don't even know who all these abbreviated folks are. I'm just here for facts. Sorry to be a square.

With that being said, I'll take a look at the page- haven't been on in a while.

 

[Tadpole12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgue#Types_of_cold_chambers

wiki

There are two types of mortuary cold chambers:
Positive temperature
Bodies are kept between 2 °C (36 °F) and 4 °C (39 °F). While this is usually used for keeping bodies for up to several weeks, it does not prevent decomposition, which continues at a slower rate than at room temperature.[3]
Negative temperature
Bodies are kept at between −10 °C (14 °F) and −50 °C (−58 °F). Usually used at forensic institutes, particularly when a body has not been identified. At these temperatures the body is completely frozen and decomposition is very much reduced.[citation needed]

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.anthonydemarco.ca/Crimin...anslaughter-and-Attempted-Murder-Lawyer.shtml

Toronto murder defense law
Anthony De Marco

"[h=2]Representing Clients Through Legal Aid[/h]The individuals charged with these types of offences often do not have the financial ability to secure the legal representation they need. Legal Aid Ontario maintains an Extremely Serious Criminal Matters (ESCM) panel to which I have been admitted. ESCM lawyers must meet strict and demanding experience requirements before they are admitted to the panel. If you or a friend or family member is charged with murder, manslaughter or attempted murder, the case will most likely qualify for Big Case Management, which means that I can negotiate with Legal Aid for a budget that will ensure an effective defence."

 

[Hraefn]

Good question. I think originally she told her mom that she "thought" she "might" be pregnant. I don't think anything has shown that she went for a test. Money was tight for her, so I don't think she would spring for an expensive home test.



Likely won't be one. If he were going to go the "Not criminally responsible" route, he'd need one. However I highly doubt that would be the case.

Many stores have pregnancy tests for a dollar or less so a home test is possible IMO

 

[photographer4]

Many stores have pregnancy tests for a dollar or less so a home test is possible IMO

Additionally, if a woman thinks she is pregnant, in Ontario, pregnancy tests at the doctor's office (blood work) are covered by OHIP. Its not unthinkable that she may have been to a clinic to confirm a pregnancy.... It is also possible that she may have gotten a test from the Refuge... places such as those often carry birth control (condoms) and pregnancy tests.... I don't know if the Refuge is one such place, but it wouldn't shock me....

 

[andreww]

Many stores have pregnancy tests for a dollar or less so a home test is possible IMO

Times have changed then because I recall them being about $15. Nonetheless, I find the whole pregnancy issue a little suspect. I believe the the only reference to this came from the mother who said "In August, she told me she thought she was pregnant". Doesn't seem like there was any confirmation of this that I know of.

 

[andreww]

Additionally, if a woman thinks she is pregnant, in Ontario, pregnancy tests at the doctor's office (blood work) are covered by OHIP. Its not unthinkable that she may have been to a clinic to confirm a pregnancy.... It is also possible that she may have gotten a test from the Refuge... places such as those often carry birth control (condoms) and pregnancy tests.... I don't know if the Refuge is one such place, but it wouldn't shock me....

It is possible for sure, and I'm certain that would be the route someone like Rori would have taken. However, if she did, don't you think she would have let her mother know about the positive result? Its not like she was keeping it from her as she had already raised the possibility to her.