Identified! Canada - Saskatoon, WhtFem 498UFSK, early 1900s murder victim, Jun'06 *Alice Burke Spence*

[JovanSrna]

I seriously doubt that they will ever identify her. The closest they will come is maybe a familial line identification via mtdna. They will be able to put a last name to her, probably never a first name. Too much time has passed.

2012 was a lifetime ago.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

Phenomenal genealogical work.

Her name was Alice Spence: DNA identifies century-old Saskatoon body of 'woman in the well'

After a decades-long investigation into mysterious historical remains, 'the woman in the well' finally has her name again.

thestarphoenix.com

On Monday morning, 19 years to the day since Alice was buried in an unnamed grave in Woodlawn Cemetery, her great-granddaughter C C was finally able to close this chapter of her family’s history.
“My grandmother Idella, who was Alice’s daughter, never spoke about her family,” said C. “She was orphaned at the age of 17, and like so many who have experienced such loss, she chose not to dwell on the past. For decades, we had no idea of the incredible story that surrounded her mother Alice.
C said she, along with her daughters and granddaughter, are talking to a stonemason about getting a new headstone made for Alice’s grave.

 

[Blurgle]

I have been following this case since I first read of it in 2006. I'm so happy they identified her, but how sad that she died leaving a daughter. I guess that at this late date we can't know for certain that her husband was the perpetrator, but if so...if he'd only waited a few years she would have been free.

Phenomenal genealogical work.

Her name was Alice Spence: DNA identifies century-old Saskatoon body of 'woman in the well'

After a decades-long investigation into mysterious historical remains, 'the woman in the well' finally has her name again.

thestarphoenix.com

On Monday morning, 19 years to the day since Alice was buried in an unnamed grave in Woodlawn Cemetery, her great-granddaughter C C was finally able to close this chapter of her family’s history.
“My grandmother Idella, who was Alice’s daughter, never spoke about her family,” said C. “She was orphaned at the age of 17, and like so many who have experienced such loss, she chose not to dwell on the past. For decades, we had no idea of the incredible story that surrounded her mother Alice.
C said she, along with her daughters and granddaughter, are talking to a stonemason about getting a new headstone made for Alice’s grave.

C C looks remarkably like the clay reconstruction of her great-grandmother.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

@othram just solved another Saskatchewan case, so here’s to hoping they’re being sneaky again and working on this case, too!

...and still hoping @othram is being sneaky, since you have solved Saskatchewan cases before

HAH!

After 19 Years, Canada's "Woman in the Well" is Identified

Saskatoon and Toronto Police Services Team with Othram to Identify Canada's "Woman in the Well"

dnasolves.com

 

[UncoolNegated]

Glad they IDed her. I thought I had a pretty good guess on who she was, but you can't argue with DNA. To summarize the Saskatoon Police:

In 2006, construction crews in Saskatoon uncovered a well containing the preserved remains of a woman, later identified as Alice Spence, who moved to Sutherland, SK, from Minnesota in 1913. The Saskatoon Police Service, using investigative genetic genealogy (IGG), DNA testing, and historical records, solved the nearly 20-year-old mystery. Alice, last documented alive in 1916, likely died due to foul play before a 1918 fire destroyed her family’s home. Collaborations with experts and agencies, including the Toronto Police Service’s IGG team, led to identifying her descendants. This marks Canada’s oldest case solved with IGG.

 

[Andreee]

I seriously doubt that they will ever identify her. The closest they will come is maybe a familial line identification via mtdna. They will be able to put a last name to her, probably never a first name. Too much time has passed.

now n 2025 with DNA advances, she could very well be id'ed

 

[Andreee]

now n 2025 with DNA advances, she could very well be id'ed

And I see she was id'ed! Alice Spence.

 

[lightofmine99]

Logging back in after a while to say I'm stunned.

 

[Andreee]

Logging back in after a while to say I'm stunned

I know right?! DNA analysis is amazing, and accurate!

 

[Same Old Stella]

Caught the great news today! She has grown great grandchildren and her name back.

 

[tarabull]

How police solved the century-old mystery of 'the woman in the well' - Canada News

Cindy Camp's great-grandmother was only a name on the family tree until police called.

www.castanet.net

 

[The4TierBridge]

How police solved the century-old mystery of 'the woman in the well' - Canada News

Cindy Camp's great-grandmother was only a name on the family tree until police called.

www.castanet.net

"Searching Alice Spence in records, they discovered she had lived in Saskatoon in 1913 and 1914 with her daughter and husband — metres from the well she was dumped in, said Funk."

So the well was on her own property??? I'm not sure what they would have been able to do in terms of confirmatory DNA work in 2006 and how much effort this case got at the time, but you would think they looked into the owners of the land during the rough PMI timeframe of 1900-1920?

 

[iamshadow21]

"Searching Alice Spence in records, they discovered she had lived in Saskatoon in 1913 and 1914 with her daughter and husband — metres from the well she was dumped in, said Funk."

So the well was on her own property??? I'm not sure what they would have been able to do in terms of confirmatory DNA work in 2006 and how much effort this case got at the time, but you would think they looked into the owners of the land during the rough PMI timeframe of 1900-1920?

That might tell you who owns a property, but not who lived there. Rentals, boarding houses, servants... Lots of people aren't on the title.

Also, census records. Bad time to be looking for someone going missing. For about six years from 1914 to 1920, you've got both the Great War and the influenza pandemic. A lot of names would have gone from one to the next.

MOO

 

[Cedars]

"Searching Alice Spence in records, they discovered she had lived in Saskatoon in 1913 and 1914 with her daughter and husband — metres from the well she was dumped in, said Funk."

So the well was on her own property??? I'm not sure what they would have been able to do in terms of confirmatory DNA work in 2006 and how much effort this case got at the time, but you would think they looked into the owners of the land during the rough PMI timeframe of 1900-1920?

That's a good idea, but IMO would not lead to any proven answers since anyone - not necessarily the property owner - could have put the victim in the well. Eg, perhaps the home was being rented out, or a neighbour did it. Similarly, even if the property owner was a suspect, the woman could have been just visiting, or killed somewhere and the well was just a distant dump site.

IMO, census records are most useful for showing named occupants of a home but they were only conducted in 1911 and 1921, so skipped the timeframe.

I used to be involved with museums etc, and genealogists, particularly retirees, have been intensively compiling lists of names, dates, family relationships, etc from every single source they can find, for decades. Whereas, unfortunately, the history of homes and properties has been entirely neglected in comparison....

JMO

 

[Cedars]

That might tell you who owns a property, but not who lived there. Rentals, boarding houses, servants... Lots of people aren't on the title.

Also, census records. Bad time to be looking for someone going missing. For about six years from 1914 to 1920, you've got both the Great War and the influenza pandemic. A lot of names would have gone from one to the next.

MOO

Snap!

 

[iamshadow21]

That's a good idea, but IMO would not lead to any proven answers since anyone - not necessarily the property owner - could have put the victim in the well. Eg, perhaps the home was being rented out, or a neighbour did it. Similarly, even if the property owner was a suspect, the woman could have been just visiting, or killed somewhere and the well was just a distant dump site.

IMO, census records are most useful for showing named occupants of a home but they were only conducted in 1911 and 1921, so skipped the timeframe.

I used to be involved with museums etc, and genealogists, particularly retirees, have been intensively compiling lists of names, dates, family relationships, etc from every single source they can find, for decades. Whereas, unfortunately, the history of homes and properties has been entirely neglected in comparison....

JMO

Oh snap, we're on the same page. Jinx!

 

[Blurgle]

That's a good idea, but IMO would not lead to any proven answers since anyone - not necessarily the property owner - could have put the victim in the well. Eg, perhaps the home was being rented out, or a neighbour did it. Similarly, even if the property owner was a suspect, the woman could have been just visiting, or killed somewhere and the well was just a distant dump site.

IMO, census records are most useful for showing named occupants of a home but they were only conducted in 1911 and 1921, so skipped the timeframe.

I used to be involved with museums etc, and genealogists, particularly retirees, have been intensively compiling lists of names, dates, family relationships, etc from every single source they can find, for decades. Whereas, unfortunately, the history of homes and properties has been entirely neglected in comparison....

JMO

IIRC the well was on the site of a hotel, that was surrounded by modest homes. I wonder if the Spences rented a house in Sutherland while they were building a house on the lands they would eventually farm.