CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Frank Magazine was unapproved as a source. Please do not continue to discuss content from that publication.

Thank you.

 

[maddiel]

<modsnip: removed info sourced from Halifax Examiner>

The Macleans article that is a transcript of the RCMP has some times that don't make sense too.:

"More than 12 hours after our initial arrival in Portapique, we began receiving a second series of 911 calls in an area more than 60 km away"
Nova Scotia shootings: The RCMP’s step-by-step account of what happened (full transcript)

Since they arrived in Portapique at 10:26 pm, the RCMP is saying it was AFTER 10:26 am on Sunday that they started getting 911 calls from the Wentworth area. That doesn't make any sense.

The map they used says"Markers depict locations where victims were found as well as the start time of each incident: Portapique (11:26 pm, April 18); Wentworth (9:35 am, April 19); Debert (10:06 am, April 19) (RCMP)"

They might have gotten the first 911 call specifically about gunshots at 9:35 am,, but that can't have been the beginning of the Wentworth crimes - there wouldn't have been time for him to do everything on Hunter Road plus kill three more people in three different incidents, visit the house where they didn't answer his knock and drive 65 Km on back roads and make it to the gas station in Brookfield by 10:30ish

 

[CCxJ]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I'm from the area. The chances of someone calling the police for one or even 5 gunshots on a regular day is slim. The only reason someone might call is if they heard of the shooting in Portapique before going to bed.

The house on Hunter Rd was extremely secluded. There's one house across the street and one approximately 1 km down the road which appears to be a cottage.

I agree that it's extremely likely that the police car was reported after the fact. There are a few abandoned cottages and logging type roads in the area where he could have easily hid, but I fond it unlikely that he was just sitting in his car while adrenaline rushed through him after the initial 13 killings. Perhaps he spent a significant amount of time at the Hunter Rd home.

 

[Satchie]

There was a question earlier about main stream media, I don't think WS keeps a list, but I'd start with members of what used to be called the press council List of members | National NewsMedia Council
(updated with better link)

For the myriad shorthand codes,
Websleuths Lingo

PS Welcome new members!

 

[deugirtni]

I am confused.. very confused..

It is said that the shooter's gf enlightened police that the shooter was driving a police car and dressed in police uniform. The gf had been attacked and hidden in the woods until something like 7am on Sunday morning.

But yet, I read this:

Campbell [Royal Canadian Mounted Police Supt. Darren Campbell] said they found 13 deceased victims in the rural community of Portapique, a quiet community of 100 residents where the suspect lived part time. He said when police arrived, they discovered a man shot. The man reported he was driving when someone in what looked like a police car shot him. He survived and was transported to hospital.
...
Authorities initially thought the suspect might have committed suicide and was in one of the homes that was on fire, he said.
Canada mass shooting started with suspect's assault on girlfriend

Is this incorrect info too?

Does this not indicate that police therefore knew upon their initial arrival in Portapique that the suspect was seen to be driving a police car?

 

[LadyL]

<modsnip> a TO Sun article indicates it was "about a decade ago" that the father's brother, Glynn contacted him saying GW had said he was going to kill his mother and father. <modsnip> This is a link to an article from another journalist who spoke the the father.
WARMINGTON: Father of Nova Scotia mass killer heartbroken | The Chronicle Herald

I think he was in his late 30's when Cuba happened.

 

[flipflop]

I wonder how far in the bush she hid? If close enough to hear firetrucks and police vehicles why not come out and tell the police what her boyfriend/killer was driving then? Hindsight is 20/20 I know. She was the only witness left alive to give the description of what he was driving and wearing right? JMO

I remember reading that the gf was treated for shock, so I imagine she was frozen and couldn’t function as she was in shock in the woods.

 

[Kent]

I am confused.. very confused..

It is said that the shooter's gf enlightened police that the shooter was driving a police car and dressed in police uniform. The gf had been attacked and hidden in the woods until something like 7am on Sunday morning.

But yet, I read this:

Campbell [Royal Canadian Mounted Police Supt. Darren Campbell] said they found 13 deceased victims in the rural community of Portapique, a quiet community of 100 residents where the suspect lived part time. He said when police arrived, they discovered a man shot. The man reported he was driving when someone in what looked like a police car shot him. He survived and was transported to hospital.
...
Authorities initially thought the suspect might have committed suicide and was in one of the homes that was on fire, he said.
Canada mass shooting started with suspect's assault on girlfriend

Is this incorrect info too?

Does this not indicate that police therefore knew upon their initial arrival in Portapique that the suspect was seen to be driving a police car?

The info appears to be correct, but it seems that they interpreted "what looked like a police car" to mean one of GW's unmarked white Ford Taurus, rather than a perfect replica of an RCMP car. Once they accounted for all three of his cars, it sounds like they didn't think he had another police car at his disposal.

 

[Satchie]

I am confused.. very confused..

It is said that the shooter's gf enlightened police that the shooter was driving a police car and dressed in police uniform. The gf had been attacked and hidden in the woods until something like 7am on Sunday morning.

But yet, I read this:

Campbell [Royal Canadian Mounted Police Supt. Darren Campbell] said they found 13 deceased victims in the rural community of Portapique, a quiet community of 100 residents where the suspect lived part time. He said when police arrived, they discovered a man shot. The man reported he was driving when someone in what looked like a police car shot him. He survived and was transported to hospital.
...
Authorities initially thought the suspect might have committed suicide and was in one of the homes that was on fire, he said.
Canada mass shooting started with suspect's assault on girlfriend

Is this incorrect info too?

Does this not indicate that police therefore knew upon their initial arrival in Portapique that the suspect was seen to be driving a police car?

I think police have different levels of 'knowing'. The comment by the shooting victim, who would have been in shock, would not, IMO, be proof of anything. Lord knows what confusion a shooting victim in the dark might be in.

I think police would keep it in mind, but would need corroborating evidence. Once they learned thru a title search that the perp had multiple registered decomissoned cop cars, they may have assumed it was one of those.

 

[deugirtni]

The info appears to be correct, but it seems that they interpreted "what looked like a police car" to mean one of GW's unmarked white Ford Taurus, rather than a perfect replica of an RCMP car. Once they accounted for all three of his cars, it sounds like they didn't think he had another police car at his disposal.

I think police have different levels of 'knowing'. The comment by the shooting victim, who would have been in shock, would not, IMO, be proof of anything. Lord knows what confusion a shooting victim in the dark might be in.

I think police would keep it in mind, but would need corroborating evidence. Once they learned thru a title search that the perp had multiple registered decomissoned cop cars, they may have assumed it was one of those.

But this was a man said to have also been driving at the time. It isn't that difficult to tell a police vehicle on the road while driving. Nobody is saying they had to have already known at that point who exactly the shooter was, but it seems they did have evidence that the shooter was driving a police vehicle. Whether it was a white taurus or a fully marked RCMP cruiser or whether it belonged to GW is irrelevant as far as them apparently knowing in the VERY early stages on Saturday evening, that the perp was driving a police vehicle. imo.

 

[Kent]

But this was a man said to have also been driving at the time. It isn't that difficult to tell a police vehicle on the road while driving. Nobody is saying they had to have already known at that point who exactly the shooter was, but it seems they did have evidence that the shooter was driving a police vehicle. Whether it was a white taurus or a fully marked RCMP cruiser or whether it belonged to GW is irrelevant as far as them apparently knowing in the VERY early stages on Saturday evening, that the perp was driving a police vehicle. imo.

Yes, it does seem that they knew from very early on that GW *had been* driving some sort of police vehicle when he shot the surviving victim, but they had no reason to believe that he was still driving one because all three of his known vehicles were accounted for (two burning in Portapique, one at his home/office in Dartmouth).

 

[Vern]

But this was a man said to have also been driving at the time. It isn't that difficult to tell a police vehicle on the road while driving. Nobody is saying they had to have already known at that point who exactly the shooter was, but it seems they did have evidence that the shooter was driving a police vehicle. Whether it was a white taurus or a fully marked RCMP cruiser or whether it belonged to GW is irrelevant as far as them apparently knowing in the VERY early stages on Saturday evening, that the perp was driving a police vehicle. imo.

"Seemed to be driving a police car." "Seemed" is a pretty important word in that sentence. Police then headed to his residence where they accounted for his three cars, including other replica police vehicles, but all were on fire along with his house. There was a thought that he may have suicided inside his home just after torching it and his vehicles.

Police were not aware until the next morning when his girlfriend came out of the woods at 0630hrs that there was a FOURTH vehicle which was also another fake-RCMP vehicle. They then immediately got the BOLO out.

They thought they had all of his vehicles, including all his replica cars accounted for Saturday night.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Frank Magazine was unapproved as a source. Please do not continue to discuss content from that publication.

Thank you.

After checking further, we are also unapproving Halifax Examiner as an MSM source.

As a result, some posts have been removed and others edited to remove references to information that has come from both the above sources. (That info includes references to a brother, and some info re discrepancy in Hunter Road timeline).

We've tried to retain as much MSM info as possible from the modsnipped posts while removing info from unapproved sources. Sorry if the flow of discussion might seem a bit wonky at times.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, it does seem that they knew from very early on that GW *had been* driving some sort of police vehicle when he shot the surviving victim, but they had no reason to believe that he was still driving one because all three of his known vehicles were accounted for (two burning in Portapique, one at his home/office in Dartmouth).

I'm not assuming that the escaped shooting victim who knew he'd been shot by someone who appeared to be driving a police vehicle would have necessarily known who was holding the gun. All I'm saying is that it seemed to be practically right away that police had reason to suspect the perp may have been driving a police vehicle. Not saying they should've by that point also known his name, where he lived, and how many replica police cruisers he may have owned. Only that perhaps police may have let other officers know, as well as the area residents, to beware of what might appear to be a police officer in a police vehicle. Also saying that it seemed they did not need to necessarily wait until 6 or 7am the next morning for another live victim to tell them the exact specs. imo. Didn't two women on their way to work on Sunday morning get apprehended by him in his cruiser? Did he stop them, or did he just randomly shoot at them while they were driving?

 

[Vern]

<modsnip: removed info sourced from Halifax Examiner>

The Macleans article that is a transcript of the RCMP has some times that don't make sense too.:

"More than 12 hours after our initial arrival in Portapique, we began receiving a second series of 911 calls in an area more than 60 km away"
Nova Scotia shootings: The RCMP’s step-by-step account of what happened (full transcript)

Since they arrived in Portapique at 10:26 pm, the RCMP is saying it was AFTER 10:26 am on Sunday that they started getting 911 calls from the Wentworth area. That doesn't make any sense.

The map they used says"Markers depict locations where victims were found as well as the start time of each incident: Portapique (11:26 pm, April 18); Wentworth (9:35 am, April 19); Debert (10:06 am, April 19) (RCMP)"

They might have gotten the first 911 call specifically about gunshots at 9:35 am,, but that can't have been the beginning of the Wentworth crimes - there wouldn't have been time for him to do everything on Hunter Road plus kill three more people in three different incidents, visit the house where they didn't answer his knock and drive 65 Km on back roads and make it to the gas station in Brookfield by 10:30ish

The sources say that the 911 calls started coming in at 0935hrs Saturday morning fm Hunter Rd/Wentworth. That's plural, so it could have been numerous calls all coming in near the same time.

In Debert by 10:06 (911 call and witness to those 2 X executions) and dead at gas station at 1135hrs. Not sure where you are getting the Brookfield at 1030hrs timing. ??

 

[deugirtni]

"Seemed to be driving a police car." "Seemed" is a pretty important word in that sentence. Police then headed to his residence where they accounted for his three cars, including other replica police vehicles, but all were on fire along with his house. There was a thought that he may have suicided inside his home just after torching it and his vehicles.

Police were not aware until the next morning when his girlfriend came out of the woods at 0630hrs that there was a FOURTH vehicle which was also another fake-RCMP vehicle. They then immediately got the BOLO out.

They thought they had all of his vehicles, including all his replica cars accounted for Saturday night.

If police arrive to shooting and fires and dead victims.. and 'seems' is all they've got.. one might hope that might be enough to at least be wary of it and perhaps advise whoever would have an interest in knowing? In the quoted post above, it seems you are speaking of 'heading to *his* residence', accounting for *his* three cars, and how his cars were accounted for at *his* house. I haven't suggested that police should've known WHO the suspect was.. but they had a LIVE victim telling them he'd been shot at by a guy in a police vehicle. Why not run with *that*? imo. It's not like they had to figure out the 'who' at that point, and where he lived and how many replicas he owned and whether or not they were all accounted for before warning other police and public?

 

[Vern]

I'm not assuming that the escaped shooting victim who knew he'd been shot by someone who appeared to be driving a police vehicle would have necessarily known who was holding the gun. All I'm saying is that it seemed to be practically right away that police had reason to suspect the perp may have been driving a police vehicle. Not saying they should've by that point also known his name, where he lived, and how many replica police cruisers he may have owned. Only that perhaps police may have let other officers know, as well as the area residents, to beware of what might appear to be a police officer in a police vehicle. Also saying that it seemed they did not need to necessarily wait until 6 or 7am the next morning for another live victim to tell them the exact specs. imo. Didn't two women on their way to work on Sunday morning get apprehended by him in his cruiser? Did he stop them, or did he just randomly shoot at them while they were driving?

Practically, they had accounted for his known police cars (3 owned vehicles) at his residence Saturday night when they were found in flames along with his house. He only had three vehicles registered to that address. Ergo their thoughts that he may have suicided and be inside the burning residence. ONLY when his girlfriend came out of the woods at 0630hrs Sunday morning did they learn there was a 4th vehicle he owned (unregistered) and that it was also a fake-RCMP vehicle. That vehicle, in photos, doesn't have a plate, so I assume it was not yet registered. The victim who was shot by what "appeared" to be a police vehicle still works with these facts. Just no one realized there was a 4th vehicle that night.

The guy who was shot by the Fake-RCMP car wasn't the only survivor at that cluster. There was others … others who probably identified exactly who he was and where he lived. Police go there and find all three of his vehicles, including a fake-RCMP vehicle in flames along with his house.

Those were the two nurses, travelling separately, who he pulled over as "traffic stops" in Debert and executed. There were witnesses to these events and 911 call was received at 1004hrs Sunday morning.

 

[Kent]

I'm not assuming that the escaped shooting victim who knew he'd been shot by someone who appeared to be driving a police vehicle would have necessarily known who was holding the gun. All I'm saying is that it seemed to be practically right away that police had reason to suspect the perp may have been driving a police vehicle. Not saying they should've by that point also known his name, where he lived, and how many replica police cruisers he may have owned. Only that perhaps police may have let other officers know, as well as the area residents, to beware of what might appear to be a police officer in a police vehicle. Also saying that it seemed they did not need to necessarily wait until 6 or 7am the next morning for another live victim to tell them the exact specs. imo. Didn't two women on their way to work on Sunday morning get apprehended by him in his cruiser? Did he stop them, or did he just randomly shoot at them while they were driving?

If police arrive to shooting and fires and dead victims.. and 'seems' is all they've got.. one might hope that might be enough to at least be wary of it and perhaps advise whoever would have an interest in knowing? In the quoted post above, it seems you are speaking of 'heading to *his* residence', accounting for *his* three cars, and how his cars were accounted for at *his* house. I haven't suggested that police should've known WHO the suspect was.. but they had a LIVE victim telling them he'd been shot at by a guy in a police vehicle. Why not run with *that*? imo. It's not like they had to figure out the 'who' at that point, and where he lived and how many replicas he owned and whether or not they were all accounted for before warning other police and public?

I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, but what reason would they have to notify the public their suspect had shot someone from a police-looking car if they no longer believed him to be driving it? It sounds like they very quickly identified their suspect and located all of his known police vehicles, so this would likely have been done before the first public alert was sent out on Twitter.

 

[Vern]

I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, but what reason would they have to notify the public their suspect had shot someone from a police-looking car if they no longer believed him to be driving it? It sounds like they very quickly identified their suspect and located all of his known police vehicles, so this would likely have been done before the first public alert was sent out on Twitter.

Especially as they had located a torched replica Police car at his burning residence along with the two other vehicles he had registered.

They'd already talked to survivors from the party too … they knew who they were looking for.

IMO, they believed he had also killed the girlfriend and suicided and was inside that house. Boy, were they in for a shock when she walked out of the woods at 0630hrs and told them there was another, unregistered, also fake-RCMP vehicle out there.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, but what reason would they have to notify the public their suspect had shot someone from a police-looking car if they no longer believed him to be driving it? It sounds like they very quickly identified their suspect and located all of his known police vehicles, so this would likely have been done before the first public alert was sent out on Twitter.

Why would they assume and believe the shooter was no longer likely to be driving it? LE showed up to bodies, fires and mayhem and were given a witness account that the perp was driving a police vehicle. I'm not educated on police matters, but if it were me, I'd hope police would have shared that piece of information with other police, and I would think it would be quite pertinent to use every means possible to advise the public as well, in case they might see an officer show up at their door, or an officer pull their vehicle over? It seems like you are believing they had their entire investigation already wrapped up with a bow at the same time they heard from the live shooting victim, which they did not,.. or at least such an assumption should not have been made at that early point in time? jmo.