CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

[deugirtni]

I don’t recall reading anything to indicate the shooter was actively shooting at random drivers on the road after police arrived on site to discover the devastation at Portapique that same Saturday evening.

After showing up to mayhem and this surviving shooting victim who'd been shot at while driving on the road, why assume it would just suddenly end just because police showed up at Portapique?

 

[BearCatSafari]

Also to add, I've never been through police academy, but I suspect one rule is that, when tracking down a rampaging killer, you focus your efforts on the area where he was last seen, until a solid lead takes you elsewhere.

Police had no evidence he'd left the scene, they couldn't afford the time and energy to speculate on scenarios, such as he jumped in a boat and was headed for New Brunswick, etc. They had to protect the neighbourhood where he was known to have just been shooting, killing and setting fires.

Just because we now know what happened, doesn't mean police should have known what was going to happen.

LE also stated the scene was a heavily wooded area. That leaves a lot of area to cover.

I would imagine last summer's killings involving the two young male shooters hiding in the woods may have reshaped the way the RCMP looks at searches in heavily wooded areas, but that's just me speculating.

The reality is the Portapique scene was stated as being heavily wooded. Given that and the fact it's the scene where he was last seen it's no wonder they focused their efforts there, as per protocol.

 

[MistyWaters]

No one knows what the surviving victim said to the police. He could have said looks like unmarked police vehicle, looks like fully marked police vehicle with lights etc, or he could have said looks like retired/decommissioned police vehicle.

Every one of these would have elicited a different response from attending officers. If he had three "police type" vehicles registered, and they accounted for three "police type" vehicles, why should they think he "might" have a fourth, and possibly cause panic and officer safety issues by alerting the public of a suspicion?

When they had actual documentation of the fully marked and kitted vehicle provided by the partner, then they took appropriate action and alerted via Twitter (which wasn't enough IMO).

I can understand why the RCMP wouldn’t have been able to predict the Sunday outcome. Public alerts are not issued on the basis of maybe this or maybe that.

This is my understanding of the sequence of events, short form.

The initial responding officers set up a parameter around Portapique, which is one road in, one road out to prevent the unknown shooter from fleeing. Darkness, no street lights, bodies found along the road, homes burning....it must’ve looked like a surreal apocalypse-like setting. GW was identified as a suspect at some point although the RCMP stated they didn’t know if others were involved. One residence reported the area was bright with search floodlights later that night. His known vehicles were all burning as was his residence. He wasn’t located however the burning or smouldering buildings would still be far too hot for searchers to shift through, looking for his body.

IMO it’s a reasonable possibility he was either hiding somewhere in the area or after he committed these atrocities he chose to take his own life, murdering his partner who was not located either, then set fire to his residence/outbuilding. The other possibility that might’ve been considered was he died in an explosion while committing arson of one of the other buildings/residences.

At some point in time on Sunday, the RCMP learned a police cruiser was sighted driving through a field on Saturday night and it’s now believed this was how GW escaped the area. At the time, given Portapique was swarmed by police vehicles arriving on site from specialized divisions and other detachments, whoever sighted this vehicle couldn’t have possibly known it was important enough to immediately relay to police. No time has been given and during one of the PCs iirc it was stated he may have fled prior to the initial arrival of police. That leads me to believe, due to the panicked state of the sighted, they might not recall the exact time.

I like how Satchie put it - “Just because we now know what happened, doesn't mean police should have known what was going to happen.”

 

[deugirtni]

No one knows what the surviving victim said to the police. He could have said looks like unmarked police vehicle, looks like fully marked police vehicle with lights etc, or he could have said looks like retired/decommissioned police vehicle.

Every one of these would have elicited a different response from attending officers. If he had three "police type" vehicles registered, and they accounted for three "police type" vehicles, why should they think he "might" have a fourth, and possibly cause panic and officer safety issues by alerting the public of a suspicion?

When they had actual documentation of the fully marked and kitted vehicle provided by the partner, then they took appropriate action and alerted via Twitter (which wasn't enough IMO).

Police show up.. there's a live victim who was shot while driving whom tells police the shooter appeared to be driving a police vehicle. At that point in time, right away, that is what they knew. All of this interviewing of non injured people and figuring out who the shooter might be, and where he lived and what kind and how many vehicles he had and how many properties he owned in how many locations and which vehicles were registered or licensed or not licensed, etc... would have been part of the investigation that was to come following their arrival on scene. Should they wait until they figure all of that out before alerting the public and other police about a mass murderer unaccounted for who is reported to be in a police vehicle?

 

[MistyWaters]

After showing up to mayhem and this surviving shooting victim who'd been shot at while driving on the road, why assume it would just suddenly end just because police showed up at Portapique?

I’m not sure what road you’re referring to? Portapique is a small coastal village, a quasi summer community with residences located along side of access via a highway. Reports indicate the first responding officers met this man who had been shot as he was leaving Portapique, where the shootings occurred, believed to have been committed by a known resident.

 

[MistyWaters]

Police show up.. there's a live victim who was shot while driving whom tells police the shooter appeared to be driving a police vehicle. At that point in time, right away, that is what they knew. All of this interviewing of non injured people and figuring out who the shooter might be, and where he lived and what kind and how many vehicles he had and how many properties he owned in how many locations and which vehicles were registered or licensed or not licensed, etc... would have been part of the investigation that was to come following their arrival on scene. Should they wait until they figure all of that out before alerting the public and other police about a mass murderer unaccounted for who is reported to be in a police vehicle?

Emergency alerts are issued to specific locations believed to be endangered due to a specific risk. As the RCMP wasn’t able to determine the suspect had left the area of Portapique in a mock-up police cruiser let alone which direct he was headed, where should this alert have been issued?

ETA - Just imagine the pandemonium it would cause - creating fear of all the investigating officers by the general public as well. This is one reason twitter was somewhat appropriate because at least they were able to circulate a photo of the suspect along with a photo of the mockup cruiser including the location of the different serial #.

 

[susiQ]

They didn't really have all the information. According to their records, the suspect had 3 vehicles and all were accounted for. They could cross him off their list, regardless of what anyone said about a fake police car. 8 hours later, they discovered that he had a 4th car. Only then could they take the first report seriously.

Reporting that someone identified the suspect and the fact that he was driving a police-looking car the night before, but it turns out all vehicles owned by that man are at his house, doesn't help.

ETA: Registered but not plated means that a fourth car belonged to him, but had no insurance or plates and could not be legally driven on roads. I wonder if that was enough for them to dismiss it? Did they know that it existed?

Wasn’t one of those vehicles parked by his office/residence in Dartmouth? I thought I read somewhere that that vehicle was towed a day later around the time they took those “teeth” off the building.

 

[TrishLiv]

Emergency alerts are issued to specific locations believed to be endangered due to a specific risk. As the RCMP wasn’t able to determine the suspect had left the area of Portapique in a mock-up police cruiser let alone which direct he was headed, where should this alert have been issued?

ETA - Just imagine the pandemonium it would cause - creating fear of all the investigating officers by the general public as well. This is one reason twitter was somewhat appropriate because at least they were able to circulate a photo of the suspect along with a photo of the mockup cruiser including the location of the different serial #.

To respectfully address some of your questions- RCMP could have followed some the current amber alert protocol. I believe its perimeters would be province wide.

Personally, I feel it was negligent to not issue an alert in the form of emergency broadcasts on TV, cell phones, and radio new outlets. I'm sorry if that is a harsh judgement but this is why:

There was a victim who survived, was shot by "someone in a police car" driving away and police had that info while attending the initial scene. He's their living witness who saw the shooter drive away. They discovered the shooter had numerous replica police vehicles registered to him. 7 people were injured or dead, I believe, and multiple fires.....

This already is worthy of an emergency alert. multiple fires, shooters not located, mass shooting. We literally send alerts for teenagers who miss school to hang out with their bf's (certain amber alerts I recall in my area) and I don't disagree with doing this. Because its always better to be safe! Pandemonium was already in progress. Letting people know would have been wise.

If there's red tape about the emergency alert system criteria not being met, then they could have called the local media to give them the tweet info. Think outside the box. Police and media work together all the time to get important info out to the public quickly.

As a former ambulance dispatcher in Ontario, I feel that if this were Ontario the media would have picked it up like a hoover. To not find the shooter at a scene with over 5 dead is a very scary and unusual situation. Obviously rural NS and Toronto are very different creatures. Crazy stuff happening in big cities is more "normal" and easier for us to believe and act quickly on.

Employees in that NS ambulance dispatch centre would have been on the edge of their seats waiting for the news that they found the shooter. Because the crews are in danger until the perpetrator is found. When there's a shooting and the gunman has not been located, EMS won't actually help anyone in medical distress. Until the scene is deemed safe by the police, they can not enter.

LE may have hoped the killer was dead but they didn't have confirmation! To inform the public would have been the difficult but right decision to make. IMO

 

[BearCatSafari]

Wasn’t one of those vehicles parked by his office/residence in Dartmouth? I thought I read somewhere that that vehicle was towed a day later around the time they took those “teeth” off the building.

I would like some clarity on this. At the press conference the other day it was stated that a third mock cruiser was located at a residence belonging to the killer in Halifax. However I believe I also read it reported that a cruiser was parked at his denture clinic, which someone mentioned he lived above, in Dartmouth.

So was the car at the clinic in Dartmouth or a residence in Halifax?

 

[Kent]

I would like some clarity on this. At the press conference the other day it was stated that a third mock cruiser was located at a residence belonging to the killer in Halifax. However I believe I also read it reported that a cruiser was parked at his denture clinic, which someone mentioned he lived above, in Dartmouth.

So was the car at the clinic in Dartmouth or a residence in Halifax?

At the press conference, they said the 3rd vehicle was located at his residence in the Halifax Regional Municipality. His denture clinic in Dartmouth was also his residence, and Dartmouth is within the Halifax Regional Municipality.

 

[joshmxpx]

Police show up.. there's a live victim who was shot while driving whom tells police the shooter appeared to be driving a police vehicle. At that point in time, right away, that is what they knew. All of this interviewing of non injured people and figuring out who the shooter might be, and where he lived and what kind and how many vehicles he had and how many properties he owned in how many locations and which vehicles were registered or licensed or not licensed, etc... would have been part of the investigation that was to come following their arrival on scene. Should they wait until they figure all of that out before alerting the public and other police about a mass murderer unaccounted for who is reported to be in a police vehicle?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

As far as police were concerned, all vehicles were accounted for, single road into area was covered, and suspect's residence was engulfed (unable to be searched).

Occam's Razor would have them believe that the killer and his wife were likely inside their residence, and I'm sure they would have consulted with crime units and supervisors who would have concluded the same.

When more information was revealed in the morning, further investigative steps were taken.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, no one knows the state of mind of the surviving initial victim, or exactly what he said to police, so to speculate what he told them and what the police "should" have done is pointless. Of course hindsight is going to be 20/20 and easy to criticize after the fact.

I disagree that alerts should have been sent out with the single statement from the initial survivor, especially without knowing what was said to police initially. When police had solid/concrete/documented evidence the next morning, alerts were issued (though the emergency system should have been utilized).

 

[MistyWaters]

To respectfully address some of your questions- RCMP could have followed some the current amber alert protocol. I believe its perimeters would be province wide.

Personally, I feel it was negligent to not issue an alert in the form of emergency broadcasts on TV, cell phones, and radio new outlets. I'm sorry if that is a harsh judgement but this is why:

There was a victim who survived, was shot by "someone in a police car" driving away and police had that info while attending the initial scene. He's their living witness who saw the shooter drive away. They discovered the shooter had numerous replica police vehicles registered to him. 7 people were injured or dead, I believe, and multiple fires.....

This already is worthy of an emergency alert. multiple fires, shooters not located, mass shooting. We literally send alerts for teenagers who miss school to hang out with their bf's (certain amber alerts I recall in my area) and I don't disagree with doing this. Because its always better to be safe! Pandemonium was already in progress. Letting people know would have been wise.

If there's red tape about the emergency alert system criteria not being met, then they could have called the local media to give them the tweet info. Think outside the box. Police and media work together all the time to get important info out to the public quickly.

As a former ambulance dispatcher in Ontario, I feel that if this were Ontario the media would have picked it up like a hoover. To not find the shooter at a scene with over 5 dead is a very scary and unusual situation. Obviously rural NS and Toronto are very different creatures. Crazy stuff happening in big cities is more "normal" and easier for us to believe and act quickly on.

Employees in that NS ambulance dispatch centre would have been on the edge of their seats waiting for the news that they found the shooter. Because the crews are in danger until the perpetrator is found. When there's a shooting and the gunman has not been located, EMS won't actually help anyone in medical distress. Until the scene is deemed safe by the police, they can not enter.

LE may have hoped the killer was dead but they didn't have confirmation! To inform the public would have been the difficult but right decision to make. IMO

An Amber Alert involves citizens watching out for a specific vehicle in order to report the sighting to police. That’s the exact opposite of an Emergency Warning involving an active shooter IMO.

I’m not so sure it was a situation where they hoped the killer was dead. Listening to the OC, it appeared police considered all possibilities and none indicated he’d left the area of Portapigue.

Do people really want provincial-wide emergency alerts about potential shooters who might be in their area without it based on any factual information? What then, people throughout a province would be asked to lock their doors and hide inside? Aside from the possibility the suspect might’ve been driving a police car and wearing a uniform, people do have the right to defend themselves. Who are they being asked to protect themselves from? Anyone who they think might be the shooter, including a police officer? Minimizing accidental panicked and pandemonium in general is one reason why I think Emergency Alerts should only be issued with precise information respective to the location at risk, including descriptive/identifiable information.

If the RCMP had issued Emergency Alerts last summer when the two suspects were fleeing from BC given all the false sightings in Ontario, if any of those people had access to guns I wonder how many innocent people would’ve been shot?

 

[Marp]

Three comments and queries about the discussions above of what the RCMP decisions should have been.

1. The injured driver said the shooter in the mocked up police car was driving IN to the community. One report had said toward the beach. From google maps it appears there’s no other road out. The driving through the field report came later.

“A police car had just driven by in the other direction, toward the beach, and the driver fired at him as they passed on the Portapique Beach Road. He could see the shooter, a middle aged white man, was dressed like an RCMP officer.” Police found Nova Scotia community in flames, with seven homes on fire and 13 people dead

2. There are no reports of survivors from the “party” except perhaps the gf. Was there a party? In the major timeline PC there was no mention of a party. He begins with the gf being restrained at home.

3. Lots of references in WS to mock up RCMP cars. The three originally found were all decommissioned vehicles with no RCMP insignia that I’ve seen in reports. These are available for any of us to purchase. So IMO there was only one faked RCMP vehicle headed down a dead end road.

 

[joshmxpx]

3. Lots of references in WS to mock up RCMP cars. The three originally found were all decommissioned vehicles with no RCMP insignia that I’ve seen in reports. These are available for any of us to purchase. So IMO there was only one faked RCMP vehicle headed down a dead end road.

I was going to post the same thing. Reading so many comments on here talking about "mock police cars" and multiple police cars, etc. Everything I've seen/read indicates that the other vehicles he had were decommissioned police vehicles. Ie Ford Taurus, which is just a normal vehicle. Nowhere is it stated or referenced that any of these other vehicles had any police markings/equipment.

 

[Marp]

O, one more thing! In the press conference the cars were only referred to as “plated” or “unplated”. Originally I thought that “registered” might be an interchangeable word but I think they chose their words very carefully for the PC.

 

[joshmxpx]

An Amber Alert involves citizens watching out for a specific vehicle in order to report the sighting to police. That’s the exact opposite of an Emergency Warning involving an active shooter IMO.

I’m not so sure it was a situation where they hoped the killer was dead. Listening to the OC, it appeared police considered all possibilities and none indicated he’d left the area of Portapigue.

Do people really want provincial-wide emergency alerts about potential shooters who might be in their area without it based on any factual information? What then, people throughout a province would be asked to lock their doors and hide inside? Aside from the possibility the suspect might’ve been driving a police car and wearing a uniform, people do have the right to defend themselves. Who are they being asked to protect themselves from? Anyone who they think might be the shooter, including a police officer? Minimizing accidental panicked and pandemonium in general is one reason why I think Emergency Alerts should only be issued with precise information respective to the location at risk, including descriptive/identifiable information.

If the RCMP had issued Emergency Alerts last summer when the two suspects were fleeing from BC given all the false sightings in Ontario, if any of those people had access to guns I wonder how many innocent people would’ve been shot?

Very well said. Also, what would the alert include? "Possible police vehicle"? That could be marked, unmarked, taurus, crown Vic, charger, explorer, Tahoe, on and on.

Having been involved in multiple Amber Alerts personally (Ontario), when these go out, the Communication Centres recieve about a call every five minutes at least from someone claiming to have seen the vehicle, and resources are sent everywhere trying to locate it based on these numerous calls. A generic alert issued on the initial information would have no investigative value and would have further spread the already limited resources even thinner, responding to numerous possible sightings.

 

[MistyWaters]

Three comments and queries about the discussions above of what the RCMP decisions should have been.

1. The injured driver said the shooter in the mocked up police car was driving IN to the community. One report had said toward the beach. From google maps it appears there’s no other road out. The driving through the field report came later.

“A police car had just driven by in the other direction, toward the beach, and the driver fired at him as they passed on the Portapique Beach Road. He could see the shooter, a middle aged white man, was dressed like an RCMP officer.” Police found Nova Scotia community in flames, with seven homes on fire and 13 people dead

2. There are no reports of survivors from the “party” except perhaps the gf. Was there a party? In the major timeline PC there was no mention of a party. He begins with the gf being restrained at home.

3. Lots of references in WS to mock up RCMP cars. The three originally found were all decommissioned vehicles with no RCMP insignia that I’ve seen in reports. These are available for any of us to purchase. So IMO there was only one faked RCMP vehicle headed down a dead end road.

And as the other two cars were burning outside of his residence by the time police arrived, it would’ve been impossible to immediately determine if he had earlier used one of the two, then drove back to his place and set everything afire. It appears he’d already murdered everyone who went outside to see what was going on, including the victim across the street, thereby eliminating possible witnesses for police to question.

All the chaos considered, I can understand why it became difficult for the RCMP to determine the sequence of events that occurred during the horrific devastation and as they’ve stated, the investigation is still ongoing.

 

[MistyWaters]

Can anyone confirm - the closest police detachment responsible for Portapique is in Bible Hill? If so, that’s 41 km away. This obviously is a very small police station, population less than 9000. During one of the early RCMP press conferences, I also recall it mentioned officers from other police detachments in NS were called in for support. But they’d be posted even further away. Portapique to Halifax is 128km. .....just getting these straight in my head because it’s unrealistic that Portapique was swarming with police officers the minute the first 911 call was made..

As posters here familiar with northern NS have already said, this by no means was similar to police response and investigation of a crime scene in a highly populated urban area.

 

[susiQ]

MOO

"EMERGENCY ALERT!!!
Active shooter in the Portapique Area. Multiple gunshot victims and numerous structure fires. Gunman reported to be driving a vehicle resembling a police cruiser. Gunman has not been located. Take shelter indoors until further updates."

Just my take on what I would like to see if such a situation ever broke out in my area.
MOO

 

[Marp]

Can anyone confirm - the closest police detachment responsible for Portapique is in Bible Hill? If so, that’s 41 km away. This obviously is a very small police station, population less than 9000. During one of the early RCMP press conferences, I also recall it mentioned officers from other police detachments in NS were called in for support. But they’d be posted even further away. Portapique to Halifax is 128km. .....just getting these straight in my head because it’s unrealistic that Portapique was swarming with police officers the minute the first 911 call was made..

As posters here familiar with northern NS have already said, this by no means was similar to police response and investigation of a crime scene in a highly populated urban area.

I see RCMP here in Bible Hill 35 min., Millbrook 33 min and Parrsboro 42 min
Find a detachment - Nova Scotia