CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983

[dotr]

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...wont-heat-up-without-law-change-cops-say.html
By Michelle McQuiggeThe Canadian Press
June 8, 2016

A man stalked the streets of Toronto, a 45-year-old mother of four in his sights.

He mapped her movements through her downtown neighbourhood, plotted his attack, then savagely struck one August night in 1983. When he was done, Susan Tice lay sexually assaulted, stabbed and breathing her last in her own bedroom.

Four months later, the scene played out again, this time during the Christmas rush in the heart of Yorkville — one of the city’s most posh neighbourhoods. The victim, 22-year-old aspiring fashion designer Erin Gilmour, suffered the same horrific fate.

That’s what detectives at the Toronto cold case unit believe happened. In both cases, they say the assailants left behind traces of his DNA, captured by police.

Seventeen years later in 2000, DNA technology enabled investigators to confirm what they suspected all along — both women were killed by the same man. It seemed a resolution was imminent now that a central DNA databank was taking shape in Canada.

But 16 years after that key clue, the cases remain cold.

For police, the lack of closure on the Tice and Gilmour murders stands as a striking example of why Canada is a particularly difficult place in which to solve cold cases.

Susan Tice, 45. Erin Gilmour, 22

 

[dotr]

By Robyn Doolittle
Aug. 31, 2009

Two women linked by serial killer

Erin Gilmour's mind was likely elsewhere as she hurried to close up that night. Her boyfriend would be by soon to take her out for dinner. Maybe Chinese food – her favourite.

Through the Yorkville boutique's front window, her killer would have been able to watch virtually unnoticed as the beautiful, young blond woman turned off the lights and locked up around 8:45 p.m.

He was waiting for her outside. Gilmour, just 22, lived in the apartment upstairs. It was scarcely 15 metres from the store's entrance to her front door.

Did he follow her upstairs? Did he trick her? Did she invite him up? Did she know her killer? This was Dec. 20, 1983. To this day her death is still a mystery.

Gilmour had been tied up, sexually assaulted and stabbed repeatedly. The fatal blow went through her heart, an autopsy later revealed.

"It was a brutal crime. A brutal crime scene," said Pitts. "I was just a young police officer at the time. I remember coming here that night. The place was swarming with homicide detectives. We searched this area far and wide trying to find the knife – unsuccessfully.

Just four months before Gilmour's slaying, on Aug. 17, Tice was found dead in her bedroom on the second floor of her Grace St. home in Toronto. There was no sign of forced entry. Like Gilmour, she had been sexually assaulted and stabbed repeatedly in the chest. The crime scenes were only a few kilometres apart.

The murders were officially linked through DNA in 2000, but investigators always suspected they were dealing with a serial predator.

The problem was the two women had nothing in common. Tice was a mother of four who had recently moved back to Toronto from Calgary after separating from her husband. She worked with disadvantaged children and had a nursing degree from McMaster University and a master's degree in social work from the University of Toronto. She had spent much of her marriage following her husband from job to job as he climbed the corporate ladder.

 

[dotr]

$ 200,000 reward!
Rbbm.
http://tpsnews.ca/stories/2016/03/cold-cases-linked-dna/

He said both cases have been extensively examined.

“We are looking for people who were common to both women,” Gallant noted. “We are going through everything we have and reaching out to the public for names of people who might be in common with the two women.”

At various times, Tice ate and shopped in Yorkville, where Gilmour resided.

“We do have a common area between the two of them,” said Gallant. “What we are looking for is that common person who may have met both of them independently, or may have crossed paths with them both at the same time. With the occurrences happening in their own homes, it’s obvious that the offender determined somehow where they both lived and started to follow them. Or, he could have had a relationship with them.”

Gallant is confident that the killer, if he’s alive, will be arrested.

“With the passage of time, people who commit crimes like these may have spoken to someone else that would help that person form a belief that he may be responsible,” he said. “It’s more than likely that he told someone.”

The holder of a nursing degree from McMaster University and a Master’s in social work from the University of Toronto, Tice worked with disadvantaged children.

An aspiring fashion designer, Gilmour worked at an upscale Yorkville boutique.

We just need the right tip from someone. We have the DNA and we know who the person responsible for these heinous crimes is. We just need a name.”

Anyone with information is asked to contact police at 416-808-7400, or to give a tip to Crime Stoppers anonymously at 416-222-TIPS (8477), online at222tips.com, text TOR and your message to CRIMES (274637).

 

[Chorley8]

I am not sure if the fact that Erin had rich parents is overvalued or undervalued. One one hand Susan Tice at that time had a better job and her own house. Presumably Erin would have gotten a boost, a loan to start up something on her own but we don't know that. Did Susan Tice's husband climb the corporate ladder quite high? Remember Susan is eating and drinking in Yorkville as well. The idea that the perp lived somewhere between the two is no doubt true but that includes tens of thousands of men at least. Is it true ( I am going from memory) that Susan came back from up north (around Owen Sound, Leith where she is buried) on the holiday weekend. Was she killed then? And not found till the 17th? What is mysterious about Gilmour is the tremendous luck the perp would have to have as there was only a 20 minute window (correct?) for her to be followed or to invite the perp in before her boyfriend came over and found her dead. And when you look at pics of Tice's house those long stairs going up to the house...very exposed if that is how he arrived. On another site someone mentions EG had threatening phone calls they couldn't trace. Is this true? Early on , even in a LE video a few years ago the fact that Erin was attractive and Susan not (and of course was much older) was highlighted obviously somebody complained or they realized this was not a correct way to describe Susan. But there IS a clash in terms of their appearance they are very different looking.

 

[dotr]

There were a number of restaurants and clubs in the area that were very popular and would be appealing to both a 22 year old Erin G. and to a 45 year old Susan T,
wishing LE would release the names of the appropriate establishments where they might have encountered the killer.
Also hoping a snapshot of perp could be developed too, that might help to spark someone's memory.
imo.
https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/

 

[dotr]

I am not sure if the fact that Erin had rich parents is overvalued or undervalued. One one hand Susan Tice at that time had a better job and her own house. Presumably Erin would have gotten a boost, a loan to start up something on her own but we don't know that. Did Susan Tice's husband climb the corporate ladder quite high? Remember Susan is eating and drinking in Yorkville as well. The idea that the perp lived somewhere between the two is no doubt true but that includes tens of thousands of men at least. Is it true ( I am going from memory) that Susan came back from up north (around Owen Sound, Leith where she is buried) on the holiday weekend. Was she killed then? And not found till the 17th? What is mysterious about Gilmour is the tremendous luck the perp would have to have as there was only a 20 minute window (correct?) for her to be followed or to invite the perp in before her boyfriend came over and found her dead. And when you look at pics of Tice's house those long stairs going up to the house...very exposed if that is how he arrived. On another site someone mentions EG had threatening phone calls they couldn't trace. Is this true? Early on , even in a LE video a few years ago the fact that Erin was attractive and Susan not (and of course was much older) was highlighted obviously somebody complained or they realized this was not a correct way to describe Susan. But there IS a clash in terms of their appearance they are very different looking.

Have not yet read anything about Susan T receiving unpleasant calls, but presuming the perp did not care about how either woman's age or appearance, because imo, he was really angry at those two women in particular. If he just generally hated females, i assume he would be linked to more murders, ( unless there are others yet to be connected to him) So why angry at Erin and Susan?
Wondering if Susan shopped at the store where Erin worked beneath her apartment?
imo, speculation

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/293438
rbbm.

Erin was bound to her bed and had been stabbed several times. An autopsy found that one of the wounds pierced her heart.
In the days before her murder she had received obscene and threatening phone calls but the police have not been able to trace them

Just noticed that both women had recently moved into the dwellings where each was murdered, also, whomever was watching, was watching closely, imo fwiw.

http://mytowncrier.ca/news/still-waiting-for-cold-case-answers/
rbbm.

It was five days before Christmas, a year and a half after Erin Gilmour had moved from home on Oriole Parkway to a Yorkville apartment.

The Bishop Strachan School graduate had studied fashion at Ryerson and was taking her first steps towards a career in that field, working in a nearby boutique.

“It was a snowy evening,” McCowan recalls. “My mom and my stepfather had gone out for the evening. Erin had been at my mom’s house that day and she was heading out that evening for some Christmas-related function.

“I had stayed at her apartment the day before. I was supposed to see her the next day as well.”

Shortly after she closed up shop at the Yorkville boutique where she worked, somebody raped and murdered Erin Gilmour and then vanished.

Just 35 minutes or so after she closed up Robin’s Knits, her friend arrived at her Hazelton Avenue

Just four months before, 45-year-old Susan Tice had been discovered in her apartment at 341 Grace St., a 10-minute drive from Gilmour’s apartment. The mother of four had recently moved to Toronto from Calgary after separating from her husband.

 

[gregjrichards]

There were a number of restaurants and clubs in the area that were very popular and would be appealing to both a 22 year old Erin G. and to a 45 year old Susan T,
wishing LE would release the names of the appropriate establishments where they might have encountered the killer.
Also hoping a snapshot of perp could be developed too, that might help to spark someone's memory.
imo.
https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/

Wow the snapshot technology is amazing I didn't know it existed it could make such a difference to cases just like this.

Do the police believe this perp attacked twice in a relatively short space of time and as far as they know stopped?

 

[dotr]

Wow the snapshot technology is amazing I didn't know it existed it could make such a difference to cases just like this.

Do the police believe this perp attacked twice in a relatively short space of time and as far as they know stopped?

The attacks were 4 months apart from each other and a driving distance of about 10 minutes apart.
There have not been any more attacks known to be connected to this perp, imo.

 

[Chorley8]

I wonder if anyone knows who owned Robins Knits? Someone with that first or last name? Yorkville rents are not cheap. Did the owner have money or their husband and was this the kind of business that the owner was not relying on to live on? How did Erin get the job? Ad in the paper or through family or friend? I am not sleuthing the owner but I am trying to suggest that the idea of Susan and Erin being radically different in terms of ec. status may not be completely correct. On another site someone broached the idea that the linkbetween the two crimes is Robins Knits. The LE theory seems to be the commonality might be Yorkville bars. But there are many possibilities......there used to be a little skating rink in Hazleton Lanes that was very popular. Art Galleries restaurants other clothing stores........ and Robins Knits

 

[pleasestandby]

A background article (pdf format) from 1968 with a little information about Erin Harrison Gilmour and her fashion model mother, Anna McCowan, from the Winnipeg Free Press December 7, 1968.

https://samepage.io/app/#!/3af876960ee7dcef3e6e9d728e8ac278424da735/page-400039857327550418-new-page/page-400039857327550418-erin-gilmour

More background info regarding her father, billionaire David Gilmour...

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20128411,00.html

 

[pleasestandby]

Erin Gilmour

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/pleasestandby2/erin%20gilmour_zpsfaspz5cy.jpg

[URL=http://s296.photobucket.com/user/pleasestandby2/media/erin%20gilmour_zpsfaspz5cy.jpg.html][/URL]

Susan Tice

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/pleasestandby2/susan%20tice_zpsto95pbpv.jpg

[URL=http://s296.photobucket.com/user/pleasestandby2/media/susan%20tice_zpsto95pbpv.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[pleasestandby]

I wonder if anyone knows who owned Robins Knits? Someone with that first or last name? Yorkville rents are not cheap. Did the owner have money or their husband and was this the kind of business that the owner was not relying on to live on? How did Erin get the job? Ad in the paper or through family or friend? I am not sleuthing the owner but I am trying to suggest that the idea of Susan and Erin being radically different in terms of ec. status may not be completely correct. On another site someone broached the idea that the linkbetween the two crimes is Robins Knits. The LE theory seems to be the commonality might be Yorkville bars. But there are many possibilities......there used to be a little skating rink in Hazleton Lanes that was very popular. Art Galleries restaurants other clothing stores........ and Robins Knits

I believe the store was owned by Robin Kay. Gilmour lived above the store on Hazelton Ave.

And originally the store was called Robin, and was in Yorkville, Toronto I believe?

Yes, there was one on Hazelton Avenue, Eaton Centre, Forest Hill Village, Eglinton, Bayview. There were several in the city.

http://www.fajomagazine.com/exclusives/robin-kay

Kay, 59, was born in Winnipeg. She went into the retail business in Toronto in the mid-'70s. She made her name as a designer selling knitwear through a chain of eponymous stores. She got famous. She got high. She spent nearly a year in prison for dealing coke. She got out and, eventually, got clean. By the late '90s, she'd lost control of her own stores.

 

[dotr]

By Robyn Doolittle
Aug. 31, 2009

Two women linked by serial killer

Sorry, forgot to provide link.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/08/31/two_women_linked_by_serial_killer.html

 

[pleasestandby]

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...wont-heat-up-without-law-change-cops-say.html
By Michelle McQuiggeThe Canadian Press
June 8, 2016




View attachment 99522 View attachment 99523
Susan Tice, 45. Erin Gilmour, 22

Erin Gilmour's boyfriend was Anthony Munk, son of billionaire Peter Munk. Peter Munk Munk was chairman and founder of Barrick Gold, the world's largest gold mining corporation and founder, chairman and CEO of Trizec Properties. He (Peter Munk) was also business partner to billionaire David Harrison Gilmour, Erin Gilmour's father.

 

[dotr]

Wish we knew more about Susan T's activities in the relatively short time she was in Toronto, and how she may have crossed paths with Erin.
Assuming they must have associated with one another and/or with the perp in order for him to develop such apparent violent hate towards them, imo.
One can see why Erin may have attracted angry/jealous attention in part, due to her bigger than life family connections, but what about Susan?
At one time LE were looking into the possibility that the former Colonel, Russell Williams was the perp, but assuming dna would prove otherwise.
imo, speculation.

 

[pleasestandby]

I believe the store was owned by Robin Kay. Gilmour lived above the store on Hazelton Ave.

http://www.fajomagazine.com/exclusives/robin-kay

The below article confirms that Robin's Knits and Robin Kay's are one and the same store at 37 Hazleton Avenue. Possibly Anna Cowan, Gilmour's mother and Robin Kay knew each other through the fashion industry, though Gilmour's aunt did live close by the boutique?

Robin Kay (37 Hazelton Ave.) is a young Canadian designer whose youthful fashions are favorites with professional women who find value in mix and match versatility and comfortable in soft fabrics. The palette is often primary, with dashes of contrasting hues. Outfits (from $90) are affordable.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-07-30/travel/8902210505_1_canadian-shirt-fashions

Robin Kay was married to Keir Brownstone, a member of The Parachute Club rock band. Hart Peikoff, Robin Kay's former husband, Keir Brownstone (her current husband at the time) and Robin started the Robin Kay knitwear stores. Keir Brownstone became the new bass player of the Parachute Club in 1984, replacing Russ Boswell, the year after Erin was killed.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1812&dat=19931110&id=IOFOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EUwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1709,5479234

 

[pleasestandby]

Google maps https://goo.gl/maps/vo99yduum6H2

The murder scenes, 341 Grace Street and 37B Hazelton Avenue

 

[dotr]

From RH's book,
Erin's phone number was unlisted, yet she had received threatening and obscene phone calls from a person who apparently had nothing to do with the murder.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=m-...IPTAE#v=onepage&q=37B Hazelton Avenue&f=false
Unsolved: True Canadian Cold Cases

By Robert J. Hoshowsky

 

[dotr]

Just a thought, did the two women go to the same hair stylist, nail salon, furniture store?
speculation, imo.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2982560/c...ing-for-killer-linked-to-2-murders-from-1983/
By Erica Vella

October 29, 2016

Cold Case Files: Toronto police searching for killer linked to 2 murders from 1983

“There is something there that this guy picked these two woman. They were both at very different points in their life. They didn’t look similar and they lived in different areas, but there is some connection to this guy for sure.”

Police haven’t given up.
“Ultimately, to solve one of the cases means we solve both,” Gallant said.
“If we can do that in this particular case, I think the two families would have some sort of resolve.”
Gilmour’s family has put out a $200,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of her killer.
“It’s literally just a name. If the police use the name in solving and getting to the bottom of this, then someone is going to get $200,000 and it’s price to pay for an answer to us,” McCowan said.
Anyone with information is asked to contact the police homicide unit at 416-808-7400, homicide@torontopolice.on.ca or Crime Stoppers anonymously at 1-800-222-847

Erin Gilmour

 

[dotr]

[video=youtube;vGf_2_V0Om8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGf_2_V0Om8[/video]
[h=1]Extended interview with Erin Gilmour’s bother, Sean McCowan[/h]