GUILTY Canada - Taliyah Marsman, 5, & Sara Baillie, 34, Calgary, 11 July 2016 #2

[KatieLiz]

I went on a walk with my son yesterday while he was playing Pokemon Go yesterday. Walked from Sara's house to where her car was found. It gives you an idea of the area. At the end of the first one I had to use my Pokemon cover since I was getting the staredown from the neighbours ... lol.
https://youtu.be/7ZbxSCA2B24
https://youtu.be/nm7g9XLU11o

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Thanks for doing that video!

Which side of the house would you walk down to get to Sara's back entrance? The side right by the front porch?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Thanks for doing that video!

Which side of the house would you walk down to get to Sara's back entrance? The side right by the front porch?

Yes

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[KatieLiz]

Yes

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That's what I thought. The houses are pretty close together. Wonder if he showed up while it was still dark out.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

That's what I thought. The houses are pretty close together. Wonder if he showed up while it was still dark out.

It gets light pretty early still. I really think there is more info that allowed them to pick him up.

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[matou]

Bill GravelandVerified account ‏@BillGraveland 46m46 minutes ago
A very brief court appearance for Edward Downey this morning. Case adjourned until Aug. 24th as defence awaits disclosure of evidence.

 

[otto]

Why would a mother work as a prostitute when she has a young child, and why would she put herself in a situation where she owed her pimp money. It's very unfortunate that she did not put her daughter in the care of her family while sorting out her difficulties with her pimp.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/crown-awa...ring-of-baillie-marsman-murder-case-1.3012717

 

[tlcya]

Why would a mother work as a prostitute when she has a young child, and why would she put herself in a situation where she owed her pimp money. It's very unfortunate that she did not put her daughter in the care of her family while sorting out her difficulties with her pimp.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/crown-awa...ring-of-baillie-marsman-murder-case-1.3012717

I know he has been alleged by authorities to be a pimp involved in sex trafficking but I missed where it said that was how or why Sarah was acquainted with her killer and why she was killed?

 

[otto]

I know he has been alleged by authorities to be a pimp involved in sex trafficking but I missed where it said that was how or why Sarah was acquainted with her killer and why she was killed?

What I understand is that Bailie was working for the accused as a prostitute; the accused was her pimp. The motive behind the murder is debt to her pimp.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=923802

 

[Tealgrove]

What I understand is that Bailie was working for the accused as a prostitute; the accused was her pimp. The motive behind the murder is debt to her pimp.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=923802

My initial thought when this all first happened was that SB was a working girl and she wanted out. After all the info on Downey came out and his gang affiliation and sex trafficking reports became public, I was pretty sure he was her pimp.

As if it wasn't sad enough to begin with, it's now even sadder.

 

[otto]

My initial thought when this all first happened was that SB was a working girl and she wanted out. After all the info on Downey came out and his gang affiliation and sex trafficking reports became public, I was pretty sure he was her pimp.

As if it wasn't sad enough to begin with, it's now even sadder.

She earned just less than $20k last year, and her husband owed her nearly $9k in child support. She had just been to court to try to get the money. I'm assuming that she was banking on being able to repay her pimp with the money her husband owed her. What an incredibly sad outcome. I have to wonder if she had alerted her lawyer or the courts to the fact that she was in debt to a criminal when she applied to the courts to see that she received the money owed. She must have known that she was in danger - perhaps ashamed to tell anyone how dangerous the situation was.

 

[otto]

This takes me back to the murders of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes for what is very likely money. Their grandson Nathan O'brien was murdered too for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Given the circumstances surrounding Liknes' finances such as the bankruptcy, the house that was quietly sold while the couple continued to live there, the accounts in Panama, and the plan for them to vanish to either a small town near Edmonton, or Mexico - I can only assume that the couple knew that what they were doing financially might upset the wrong person. At the same time, a child was with them. The situation with Baillie seems similar - financial problems with the wrong person, and a child who is at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Do people think that having a young child with them will protect them from problems they created?

 

[KatieLiz]

This takes me back to the murders of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes for what is very likely money. Their grandson Nathan O'brien was murdered too for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Given the circumstances surrounding Liknes' finances such as the bankruptcy, the house that was quietly sold while the couple continued to live there, the accounts in Panama, and the plan for them to vanish to either a small town near Edmonton, or Mexico - I can only assume that the couple knew that what they were doing financially might upset the wrong person. At the same time, a child was with them. The situation with Baillie seems similar - financial problems with the wrong person, and a child who is at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Do people think that having a young child with them will protect them from problems they created?

No financial debt makes a murder justifiable or deserved. In both this case and the O'Briens case, no one is to blame for the deaths but the men who caused them. It's unfortunate that people's actions piss off the wrong psychopaths, or that people put themselves in bad situations, but none of them could have foreseen these tragedies.

 

[otto]

No financial debt makes a murder justifiable or deserved. In both this case and the O'Briens case, no one is to blame for the deaths but the men who caused them. It's unfortunate that people's actions piss off the wrong psychopaths, or that people put themselves in bad situations, but none of them could have foreseen these tragedies.

Of course they could not have foreseen that their financial decisions would lead to murder - it's doubly tragic when a child is caught between a caregiver and a sociopath.

 

[otto]

More details on motive and relationship between victim and suspect

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/new-revelations-in-double-homicide-of-alberta-mom-daughter-1.3014467

 

[PrincessButtercup]

More details on motive and relationship between victim and suspect

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/new-revelations-in-double-homicide-of-alberta-mom-daughter-1.3014467

I hope that this information makes a stronger case for the Crown. I'm certainty not going to judge how a single mom had to make ends meet. Not what I would have done but custodial parents have to provide for their kids no matter if the other parent is paying or not ... they don't have the luxury of withholding payments. Sometimes you do what you have to do. I feel like maybe Sara needed money and ED lent it to her knowing she'd have trouble paying it back and then he'd have her in his clutches. Then she wanted out and he didn't want to let her out. Just my thought.

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[cvaldez1975]

that is what I think too.

I hope that this information makes a stronger case for the Crown. I'm certainty not going to judge how a single mom had to make ends meet. Not what I would have done but custodial parents have to provide for their kids no matter if the other parent is paying or not ... they don't have the luxury of withholding payments. Sometimes you do what you have to do. I feel like maybe Sara needed money and ED lent it to her knowing she'd have trouble paying it back and then he'd have her in his clutches. Then she wanted out and he didn't want to let her out. Just my thought.

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[casesensitive]

So CM states that he gave Sara $5,000 in child support arrears. (hopefully that is traced and proven). Is it possible that Sara refused to give it to ED? He may have killed her in a rage. Just thinking of possibilities for a "debt" motive.

 

[thelesis]

Even if the escort aspect didn't just come up, I would have thought something was seriously hinky with her having a basement suite in that area on $20k a year. I know that sounds weird, but there's a boom over here in Saskatoon too and looking at rental prices I couldn't afford a place like that and I'm making way more than that with no dependents!

I'm hearing more and more on the news crimes coming up in new areas like the one Sara lived in. Lots of drugs and gang involvement. In the lower-income parts you traditionally think that stuff is going on in is the people who can't present as middle-class or are the end users, not the dealers.

 

[deugirtni]

The article in the first link makes it sound like CM had paid $5K toward the outstanding arrears sometime between March and the court date in July. The article in the second link (which is dated a day later than the first article) only says that CM paid $5000 toward the arrears, but makes it sound as if that happened during the court date in July.

Aug 3rd article:

CTV spoke with Marsman who says he paid her $5,000 in arrears by the time the pair was back in court on July 7th, just days before Baillie was killed.

Aug 4th article:

Just days before her death, Baillie and Colin Marsman were back in court re-negotiating their arrangement. Colin Marsman told CTV News he paid $5,000 of what he owed.

I wonder which it is? Either way, it sounds like it was information that would have been documented during that court date.

I can't imagine how furious I would be if I was in CM's shoes, perhaps struggling to cough up the allotted amount of child support each month, falling behind, coming up with a chunk of it, only to have that money go right back out the door and into the hands of some gangland pimp. In the beginning it said that CM was cooperating with police. I wonder if CM knew what SB was up to, and perhaps the name of her pimp, and he was the one to offer that info up to investigators. That could potentially explain why there was a mixup in police reportedly saying ED was known to both SB and CM, and CM later clarifying to MSM that he did NOT know ED?

 

[kimi_SFC]

I've been away from Sara and Taliyah's thread for a while, so I apologize in advance for not being up-to-date on the latest turn of events until now.

That said, upon reading this article and watching the embedded video, my heart breaks at the knowledge of what may have led to the choices Sara made prior to her (and Taliyah's) murder.

Over the years here at WS, we have had the insight of posters who have had to make the difficult choice. We did not pass judgment upon them. Rather, I recall a spirit of empathy and gratefulness to them for sharing their perspectives, and allowing us a window into their world. IMO, I would not want to ever have to make such a choice, if it meant doing whatever it took to provide for my child, especially when she was not receiving the support that she needed, as has been alleged.

It is not my place to judge Sara, nor will it ever be. As a WSer, I take pride in our victim-friendly environment, even more so because I have been the victim of violent crime (DV) and SA. I have not walked in Sara's shoes. However, I know what it's like to want nothing more than to protect my girls; to be in "fight or flight" mode, and make decisions that I question in hindsight.

Tragically, Sara will never have the chance to look back at her decisions. The perpetrator of her and Taliyah's murders took that opportunity (and so much more) away from her....

No matter what her choices, I truly believe that Sara and Taliyah did nothing to deserve such horrific and brutal deaths. The blame lies at edd's feet.
That's just how I see it. :twocents:

Image source: embedded video @link:
http://ctv.news/Mg3Y5tV

May their justice be swift and harsh...
#JusticeForSara
#JusticeForTaliyah




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