GUILTY Canada - Taliyah Marsman, 5, & Sara Baillie, 34, Calgary, 11 July 2016 #2

[Alice253]

I've been away from Sara and Taliyah's thread for a while, so I apologize in advance for not being up-to-date on the latest turn of events until now.

That said, upon reading this article and watching the embedded video, my heart breaks at the knowledge of what may have led to the choices Sara made prior to her (and Taliyah's) murder.

Over the years here at WS, we have had the insight of posters who have had to make the difficult choice. We did not pass judgment upon them. Rather, I recall a spirit of empathy and gratefulness to them for sharing their perspectives, and allowing us a window into their world. IMO, I would not want to ever have to make such a choice, if it meant doing whatever it took to provide for my child, especially when she was not receiving the support that she needed, as has been alleged.

It is not my place to judge Sara, nor will it ever be. As a WSer, I take pride in our victim-friendly environment, even more so because I have been the victim of violent crime (DV) and SA. I have not walked in Sara's shoes. However, I know what it's like to want nothing more than to protect my girls; to be in "fight or flight" mode, and make decisions that I question in hindsight.

Tragically, Sara will never have the chance to look back at her decisions. The perpetrator of her and Taliyah's murders took that opportunity (and so much more) away from her....

No matter what her choices, I truly believe that Sara and Taliyah did nothing to deserve such horrific and brutal deaths. The blame lies at edd's feet.
That's just how I see it. :twocents:

Image source: embedded video @link:
http://ctv.news/Mg3Y5tV

May their justice be swift and harsh...
#JusticeForSara
#JusticeForTaliyah




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Beautifully said, Kimi. [emoji173]

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[Slebby]

These revelations about a pimp-prostitute relationship certainly clears up some of the mystery of this case.

However, I still find it weirdly coincidental that both CM and ED had ties to the same gang, came from Halifax and both had ties to SB yet they never knew each other? It's hard to believe SB just happened to be (allegedly) turning tricks for a guy who belonged to the same gang as her ex.

Has there been any reference to where CM works? I'm just curious about how he makes a living.


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[cvaldez1975]

its possible CM did know him and LE knows that, but he denied it to the media. weird, but possible.

and ED probably made his $ by being a pimp.

These revelations about a pimp-prostitute relationship certainly clears up some of the mystery of this case.

However, I still find it weirdly coincidental that both CM and ED had ties to the same gang, came from Halifax and both had ties to SB yet they never knew each other? It's hard to believe SB just happened to be (allegedly) turning tricks for a guy who belonged to the same gang as her ex.

Has there been any reference to where CM works? I'm just curious about how he makes a living.


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[otto]

I hope that this information makes a stronger case for the Crown. I'm certainty not going to judge how a single mom had to make ends meet. Not what I would have done but custodial parents have to provide for their kids no matter if the other parent is paying or not ... they don't have the luxury of withholding payments. Sometimes you do what you have to do. I feel like maybe Sara needed money and ED lent it to her knowing she'd have trouble paying it back and then he'd have her in his clutches. Then she wanted out and he didn't want to let her out. Just my thought.

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BBM
Calgary is an affluent city with numerous services that provide for, or support, child care, adult re-education, substance abuse treatment, subsidized housing, subsidized programs for children in low income homes, counselling, student loans, grants/subsidies/bursaries ... I could go on. What that means is that the community provides support for all - including single moms with one child who are living on income that is below the poverty level. No one in Calgary has to prostitute themselves to provide for a child.

Do we know whether there were issues with drugs? Is that possibly the origin of the debt?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

BBM
Calgary is an affluent city with numerous services that provide for, or support, child care, adult re-education, substance abuse treatment, subsidized housing, subsidized programs for children in low income homes, counselling, student loans, grants/subsidies/bursaries ... I could go on. What that means is that the community provides support for all - including single moms with one child who are living on income that is below the poverty level. No one in Calgary has to prostitute themselves to provide for a child.

Do we know whether there were issues with drugs? Is that possibly the origin of the debt?

Totally untrue Otto, I live in Calgary and work with vulnerable populations.

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[otto]

Totally untrue Otto, I live in Calgary and work with vulnerable populations.

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I'm sure there are plenty of success stories where women find themselves impoverished and alone with one or more children, and they are able to use the available resources to build a new, successful life. Substance abuse and addiction are a different story.

Do we know if Baillie had substance abuse issues?

 

[Satchie]

To be honest, for a modern young woman in many segments of our society, seizing the chance to make some badly needed money on the side as an escort is not a big deal, it doesn't involve some sort of process of moral degeneration - it's still going out on a date, but instead of being wined and dined and driven around, there's cash. The young woman may decide after a while that it doesn't work for her, she doesn't like it for the long term, and then she'll quit, as one does any job that turned out to be a bad fit.

 

[Kennyyy]

Hello, new here. I've been following this case since it came out. I don't know SB or TM, but they remind me of people I do know and would like to see justice served to honour their memory.

I make no judgements on the Escort information, it's just another piece of the puzzle. As a father to a daughter, I'd be heartbroken to find out she had to escort to raise her child.

So while this information fills in some holes that I was wondering about, it raises some other questions. For instance, we don't even know if she was escorting willingly, or was coerced or threatened into it.

For the actual killings, I can't quite decide if the murder of SB was intentional or not, or if ED just went there to rough her up and things got carried away. As far as I know the cause of death hasn't been released, that would clear up some things but I have a feeling that may not come out until trial.

Anyway, it seems like a really good community on here so I just wanted to drop a line and say hello.

 

[otto]

Hello, new here. I've been following this case since it came out. I don't know SB or TM, but they remind me of people I do know and would like to see justice served to honour their memory.

I make no judgements on the Escort information, it's just another piece of the puzzle. As a father to a daughter, I'd be heartbroken to find out she had to escort to raise her child.

So while this information fills in some holes that I was wondering about, it raises some other questions. For instance, we don't even know if she was escorting willingly, or was coerced or threatened into it.

For the actual killings, I can't quite decide if the murder of SB was intentional or not, or if ED just went there to rough her up and things got carried away. As far as I know the cause of death hasn't been released, that would clear up some things but I have a feeling that may not come out until trial.

Anyway, it seems like a really good community on here so I just wanted to drop a line and say hello.

According to the facts we know at this time, the father of the child did not know the pimp, but the pimp knew the mother and the child. That suggests that Baillie connected with the suspect independently.

The suspect is a pimp and a drug dealer. That is why I'm wondering whether Baillie had a substance abuse issue. If she met him casually; through friends, at a party (for example), and he gave her drugs, she may have returned to him for more drugs, and perhaps he gave her the impression that there were no strings attached. After she became dependent on him for drugs, that would be the time that he told her that he would arrange for her to prostitute herself in exchange for drug money.

If there was a drug dependency, and she owed him money, she had two choices: come up with the money, or be victimized by him. We know that she tried to come up with the money by pursuing unpaid child support, but that wasn't enough. Maybe this was his way of sending a message to other women that he was victimizing.

 

[AceDetective]

Hello, new here. [...]

I can't quite decide if the murder of SB was intentional or not, or if ED just went there to rough her up and things got carried away. [...]

Hi Kennyyy, and welcome to the forum.

The thing is, he parked a distance away from the crime scene. There could be other reasons for this, of course, but it tends to suggest the murder was premeditated.

This whole thing just doesn't make sense to me. Why would you kill someone who owes you money? Then you never get paid. Some are saying to send a message, but do you really want to go around telling people you killed someone?

And why kidnap the 5 year old daughter? Makes no sense.

I will say, the minute I heard she was involved with gang guys my mind went to drugs. These guys are losers and bad news. For women associated with them, it's always about the drugs.

<modsnip>

 

[Kennyyy]

Hi Kennyyy, and welcome to the forum.

The thing is, he parked a distance away from the crime scene. There could be other reasons for this, of course, but it tends to suggest the murder was premeditated.

This whole thing just doesn't make sense to me. Why would you kill someone who owes you money? Then you never get paid. Some are saying to send a message, but do you really want to go around telling people you killed someone?

And why kidnap the 5 year old daughter? Makes no sense.

I will say, the minute I heard she was involved with gang guys my mind went to drugs. These guys are losers and bad news. For women associated with them, it's always about the drugs.

I heard Sara met the pimp through a girlfriend.

I think the drug angle is very plausible. I was thinking either ED gave drugs which she needed to pay for and couldn't, or he lent her money that she needed and couldn't pay it back. Which led to the escorting.

The murders just seem so poorly thought out, sloppy and amateurish that I wondered if it wasn't premeditated. With that said, he definitely went there with ill intentions.

 

[matou]

I can't get my head around the fact that the gang leader/pimp killed a little girl who had nothing to do with anything and dumped her body. Why kill her too? Didn't he realize that he would be suspected? He seems to have led her out of the house and she probably trusted him. So sick of this.

 

[matou]

I think the drug angle is very plausible. I was thinking either ED gave drugs which she needed to pay for and couldn't, or he lent her money that she needed and couldn't pay it back. Which led to the escorting.

The murders just seem so poorly thought out, sloppy and amateurish that I wondered if it wasn't premeditated. With that said, he definitely went there with ill intentions.

ITA. This wasn't a hit. It was out of anger IMO.

 

[Kirbster11]

Even if the escort aspect didn't just come up, I would have thought something was seriously hinky with her having a basement suite in that area on $20k a year. I know that sounds weird, but there's a boom over here in Saskatoon too and looking at rental prices I couldn't afford a place like that and I'm making way more than that with no dependents!

I'm hearing more and more on the news crimes coming up in new areas like the one Sara lived in. Lots of drugs and gang involvement. In the lower-income parts you traditionally think that stuff is going on in is the people who can't present as middle-class or are the end users, not the dealers.

Hi all. I'm new to posting but have been silently creeping for awhile

I live in Panorama, about 15 houses away from where SB lived and directly between her house and where her car was found. Panorama is not a ritzy neighborhood. There is a lot of multi family dwellings- condo's, townhomes and basement suites- and it has a very high immigrant population where very large extended families all live under one roof. A quick internet search shows a lot of basement suites in Panorama and they generally rent between $900-1200 per month and are probably 800sq feet. You couldn't find a place much cheaper than that in Calgary, so I certainly don't think her housing situation is hinky.

I do find it strange than only one news network has reported the escort theory about SB. Doesn't that seem out of the norm? If it's true, wouldn't the other networks be all over confirming this info and sharing it too??

 

[matou]

Yes CTV and affiliates.

Police sources recently confirmed to CTV News that in order to make ends meet, Baillie had been working as an escort.


One local sex worker who says she knew Baillie told CTV News the mother wanted out of her relationship with Downey, who has previously done time for drugs, weapons and prostitution offences. According to parole documents Downey was a known &#8220;pimp.&#8221;

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/new-revelations-in-mother-daughter-double-homicide-1.3014467

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

A must read article. It has a lot of good info I hadn't read before.
Please excuse if it has been posted before.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/ne...ah-but-second-job-left-her-in-dubious-company

 

[matou]

Great article. Thank you.

 

[MsMarple]

A must read article. It has a lot of good info I hadn't read before.
Please excuse if it has been posted before.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/ne...ah-but-second-job-left-her-in-dubious-company

Thank you. The article makes me profoundly sad.

 

[AceDetective]

From the National Post article: "Friends say Baillie came to know Downey through his girlfriend and often visited them in their townhouse in the Skyview Ranch neighbourhood in northeast Calgary."

I posted the first part of this several days ago, and it got deleted by mods as a rumor. Isn't discussing rumors a big part of what this forum is for? I see no rule against posting rumors.

In any case, now that this is in the media I take it we can discuss it?

As the article says, the word is that Sara was friends with Downey's girlfriend first, and that's how she met Downey. It's possible this provides an alternate explanation for Downey's car being parked away from the crime scene. Perhaps they had some sort of clandestine relationship, romantic or otherwise, and he didn't want to risk having his girlfriend spot his car parked outside Sara's place.

 

[tlcya]

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