GUILTY Canada - Taliyah Marsman, 5, & Sara Baillie, 34, Calgary, 11 July 2016 #2

[otto]

Are we to believe that this is Baillie's reason for becoming a prostitute? I have to admit that paying for college is the last thing on my mind when considering finances for a 5 year old. I'm good with figuring it out when the time comes, or letting the child take out a student loan.

“We were just talking about how to plan for your kids’ future, how much to put away for college, the estimated costs,” recalled one of Baillie’s friends. “She wanted her daughter to have a better life. And so Baillie got a “second job,” the friend said.”??

...
"Last fall, Marsman became distraught at Taliyah’s fifth birthday party because there were several men there who he didn’t know and disapproved of, a friend said. He was also concerned about the amount of alcohol present."

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/ne...ah-but-second-job-left-her-in-dubious-company

 

[Kennyyy]

Are we to believe that this is Baillie's reason for becoming a prostitute? I have to admit that paying for college is the last thing on my mind when considering finances for a 5 year old. I'm good with figuring it out when the time comes, or letting the child take out a student loan.

“We were just talking about how to plan for your kids’ future, how much to put away for college, the estimated costs,” recalled one of Baillie’s friends. “She wanted her daughter to have a better life. And so Baillie got a “second job,” the friend said.”??

...
"Last fall, Marsman became distraught at Taliyah’s fifth birthday party because there were several men there who he didn’t know and disapproved of, a friend said. He was also concerned about the amount of alcohol present."

I wouldn't expect a friend to necessarily know the real reason behind escorting, and if they did to share it with the press. I'd be hesitant to speak poorly of a friend to a reporter and would probably try to paint a situation like that in a positive light if at all possible.

 

[AceDetective]

Are we to believe that this is Baillie's reason for becoming a prostitute? I have to admit that paying for college is the last thing on my mind when considering finances for a 5 year old. I'm good with figuring it out when the time comes, or letting the child take out a student loan.

“We were just talking about how to plan for your kids’ future, how much to put away for college, the estimated costs,” recalled one of Baillie’s friends. “She wanted her daughter to have a better life. And so Baillie got a “second job,” the friend said.”??

...
[...snip...]

The article does also say, "Baillie was concerned whether she’d be able to save enough money for a home."

Also, anyone wanting their child to go to college/university should be trying to put away up to $2500 per year to take advantage of federal grants. (for a RESP the feds will kick in 20-40% on the first $500, and 20% on up to $2500)

Let's face it, when you're making $19k per year, there's just never enough money to put any away...

I also noticed this: "The friend saw how much time Baillie spent with Edward Downey," which also tends to lend further credence to the theory that Downey parked a distance away to hide it from his girlfriend, instead of because the murder was planned.

 

[Kennyyy]

That article did give some interesting information. We'll probably need to wait for the trail to get the whole story, or as much as the police were able to piece together. But I was thinking, I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing more info (true or false) that tries to place SB in a negative light, possibly as a defense strategy or from ED supporters? I've seen that before, try and sow some doubt.

 

[otto]

The article does also say, "Baillie was concerned whether she’d be able to save enough money for a home."

Also, anyone wanting their child to go to college/university should be trying to put away up to $2500 per year to take advantage of federal grants. (for a RESP the feds will kick in 20-40% on the first $500, and 20% on up to $2500)

Let's face it, when you're making $19k per year, there's just never enough money to put any away...

I also noticed this: "The friend saw how much time Baillie spent with Edward Downey," which also tends to lend further credence to the theory that Downey parked a distance away to hide it from his girlfriend, instead of because the murder was planned.

With a poverty level income, post-secondary tuition that wouldn't be needed for another 13+ years should not have been a concern. Many students take student loans for an education. They pay it out after they graduate and find employment. It's not the case that without money, a post-secondary education is out of the question.

Just thinking here about her financial situation: her income last year was $19,000. She was entitled to child tax benefit of $9000 (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/bnfts/clcltr/cfbc-eng.html). She also received child support. That brings her known income to $28,000 before child support, which is roughly $2300/mo. That should be enough for to support a family of two in a low cost rental?

I suspect there's something more to this, and I'm not ready to believe that substance abuse was not somehow related to the debt.

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

With a poverty level income, post-secondary tuition that wouldn't be needed for another 13+ years should not have been a concern. Many students take student loans for an education. They pay it out after they graduate and find employment. It's not the case that without money, a post-secondary education is out of the question.

Just thinking here about her financial situation: her income last year was $19,000. She was entitled to child tax benefit of $9000 (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/bnfts/clcltr/cfbc-eng.html). She also received child support. That brings her known income to $28,000 before child support, which is roughly $2300/mo. That should be enough for to support a family of two in a low cost rental?

I suspect there's something more to this, and I'm not ready to believe that substance abuse was not somehow related to the debt.

The 19k comes to around 1,172 after taxes. The child tax would be around 750 a month. That's still less than 2k a month to work with. If she was paying 1k in rent, the half her paycheck went to rent. Add groceries, utilities, clothing and other necessities and you could be working with a negative amount.
All MOO!

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

The 1172 is per month take home after taxes.

 

[otto]

The 19k comes to around 1,172 after taxes. The child tax would be around 750 a month. That's still less than 2k a month to work with. If she was paying 1k in rent, the half her paycheck went to rent. Add groceries, utilities, clothing and other necessities and you could be working with a negative amount.
All MOO!

After tax, her income would have been $18000 (https://simpletax.ca/calculator), which is $1500/mo income. Add the child benefit of $750 and her income was $2250. Add child support to that amount. Her actual monthly income, including child support, was probably closer to $2800 or more. I'm confident that this is enough money to support a young adult and small child.

I'm not seeing this a situation where financial issues would lead to no choice but to take a second job as a prostitute.

 

[wendiesan]

The 19k comes to around 1,172 after taxes. The child tax would be around 750 a month. That's still less than 2k a month to work with. If she was paying 1k in rent, the half her paycheck went to rent. Add groceries, utilities, clothing and other necessities and you could be working with a negative amount.
All MOO!

I like your list of expenses and would say that among those other expenses are the costs of transportation, daycare, and medicine (even over the counter medicine costs money and you have to have it on hand when you have a little one). Basement suites may include some utilities (light, heat) but often will not include the costs of phone or computer access. As well, some suites will have access to laundry on the premises, others will not. And, with a little one, laundry costs add up very quickly. These are very real costs, and, if an emergency arises, then the single mother may be in financial trouble very quickly.

 

[otto]

I like your list of expenses and would say that among those other expenses are the costs of transportation, daycare, and medicine (even over the counter medicine costs money and you have to have it on hand when you have a little one). Basement suites may include some utilities (light, heat) but will not cover the costs of phone or computer access. As well, some suites will have access to laundry on the premises, others will not. And, with a little one, laundry costs add up very quickly. These are very real costs, and, if an emergency arises, then the single mother may be in financial trouble very quickly.

She would have been eligible for full government support for child care costs if the child was not in school, and full support for before/after school programs is her child was in school. A phone costs about $30/mo. Medicine is for sick people, and I don't recall that she or her daughter were sick. She could do laundry at her mom's house. Very real costs can be managed in ways that are manageable. We're talking about someone who needed to keep her costs down, so obviously someone who has limited income has to find ways to manage. Her daughter was eligible for all arts and sports programs hosted through the city at no cost. As I've said before, the government provides for single moms and their children when they are in need.

I'm really struggling to understand how she ended up in debt to a drug dealing pimp.

 

[Sunshine95]

With a poverty level income, post-secondary tuition that wouldn't be needed for another 13+ years should not have been a concern. Many students take student loans for an education. They pay it out after they graduate and find employment. It's not the case that without money, a post-secondary education is out of the question.

Just thinking here about her financial situation: her income last year was $19,000. She was entitled to child tax benefit of $9000 (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/bnfts/clcltr/cfbc-eng.html). She also received child support. That brings her known income to $28,000 before child support, which is roughly $2300/mo. That should be enough for to support a family of two in a low cost rental?

I suspect there's something more to this, and I'm not ready to believe that substance abuse was not somehow related to the debt.

Please explain the child tax income?! I know about child tax credit, but where/ how does someone get that additional income? As a struggling single mother, I am unaware of this and would love to know if there's that kind of money to help- but is it being confused with a tax credit? TIA

 

[Satchie]

Not to split hairs, but from the point of view of the woman, there is a difference between being an escort and a street-corner prostitute. Escorts are considered classy, beautiful and professional. If successful, powerful men will spend thousands of dollars to spend the evening with them, like Eliot Spitzer did. Richard Gere fell in love with his escort Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. While probably not the reality, it carries an allure of glamour and power, and very easy money that requires no drudgery.

I admit, I'm jaded. I look at a relationship like Donald and Melania Trump and 'love match' doesn't jump to mind.

 

[otto]

Not to split hairs, but from the point of view of the woman, there is a difference between being an escort and a street-corner prostitute. Escorts are considered classy, beautiful and professional. If successful, powerful men will spend thousands of dollars to spend the evening with them, like Eliot Spitzer did. Richard Gere fell in love with his escort Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. While probably not the reality, it carries an allure of glamour and power, and very easy money that requires no drudgery.

I admit, I'm jaded. I look at a relationship like Donald and Melania Trump and 'love match' doesn't jump to mind.

Baillie was working as an "escort" for a man who relied on prostitution and drug sales for income.

 

[Satchie]

The federal child benefit is in the process of being implemented http://settlement.org/ontario/emplo...e/child-benefits/how-do-i-apply-for-the-cctb/

 

[otto]

Please explain the child tax income?! I know about child tax credit, but where/ how does someone get that additional income? As a struggling single mother, I am unaware of this and would love to know if there's that kind of money to help- but is it being confused with a tax credit? TIA

Canada child tax benefit: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/cctb/

Read about the Canada Baby Bonus for history of this long standing benefit to Canadian parents.

"One of the key areas of federal-provincial/territorial relations in child care has been through federal funding arrangements for provincially-delivered child-based benefits and services. The first these initiatives came during World War II, with the increased need for women in the workforce. "

http://mapleleafweb.com/features/child-care-canada-introduction

 

[Sillybilly]

Obviously none of us knows how/why SB became an escort. Whatever those reasons were, she and her daughter did not deserve to be murdered. To indicate SB is somehow responsible for their deaths is victim bashing. Let it go and move on.

:tyou:

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

After tax, her income would have been $18000 (https://simpletax.ca/calculator), which is $1500/mo income. Add the child benefit of $750 and her income was $2250. Add child support to that amount. Her actual monthly income, including child support, was probably closer to $2800 or more. I'm confident that this is enough money to support a young adult and small child.

I'm not seeing this a situation where financial issues would lead to no choice but to take a second job as a prostitute.

That calculator is for after the fact, and not while the income is being incurred. She could have a tax return at the end if the year granted. But her income while being incurred wouldn't be 18k.

 

[otto]

Please explain the child tax income?! I know about child tax credit, but where/ how does someone get that additional income? As a struggling single mother, I am unaware of this and would love to know if there's that kind of money to help- but is it being confused with a tax credit? TIA

That calculator is for after the fact, and not while the income is being incurred. She could have a tax return at the end if the year granted. But her income while being incurred wouldn't be 18k.

The child tax benefit is distributed on a monthly basis and has been in place in principal since World War 2.

 

[otto]

In terms of motive for the murder of Baillie, is it possible that the suspect was also a loan shark?

"Sara Baillie wanted a better life for her daughter Taliyah, but ‘second job’ left her in dubious company
...

“We were just talking about how to plan for your kids’ future, how much to put away for college, the estimated costs,” recalled one of Baillie’s friends. “She wanted her daughter to have a better life.”

And so Baillie got a “second job,” the friend said.

Baillie never said outright what that other job was and the friend never asked, but she says she didn’t really have to. The friend saw how much time Baillie spent with Edward Downey, who Baillie had once said was involved in the sex trade.

This week, a law enforcement source confirmed the friend’s suspicions that Baillie worked as an escort. With the revelation came a possible motive as to why Baillie, 34, and her daughter were slain last month "​

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ah-but-second-job-left-her-in-dubious-company

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

In terms of motive for the murder of Baillie, is it possible that the suspect was also a loan shark?

"Sara Baillie wanted a better life for her daughter Taliyah, but ‘second job’ left her in dubious company
...

“We were just talking about how to plan for your kids’ future, how much to put away for college, the estimated costs,” recalled one of Baillie’s friends. “She wanted her daughter to have a better life.”

And so Baillie got a “second job,” the friend said.

Baillie never said outright what that other job was and the friend never asked, but she says she didn’t really have to. The friend saw how much time Baillie spent with Edward Downey, who Baillie had once said was involved in the sex trade.

This week, a law enforcement source confirmed the friend’s suspicions that Baillie worked as an escort. With the revelation came a possible motive as to why Baillie, 34, and her daughter were slain last month "​

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ah-but-second-job-left-her-in-dubious-company

It's possible that she asked for a loan. However it would still leave her in the same predicament, no extra money to pay it back.
Can't wait for the trial. I wanna know what happened and why.