CANADA Canada - Toronto Crimes Discussion

[Chorley8]

Can't they tell us what bars?

I had heard ST was attacked as she was coming in her house from up north. Strange timing. How would the attacker know? (If true).

And EG killed in the few minutes while her boyfriend was on his way over.

Both cases very narrow timing and then no other cases, strange.

Was Remys around in 83? The Four Seasons? Hemingways? Carlyles or whatever took its place? IN the summer there was that huge outdoor place same side as her store towards Bay no idea what it was called. No doubt many other places.

 

[Chorley8]

Anyone remember hom. of a young woman I think from China near Keele Finch about 10 year ago or so? They had very interesting clues such as a hat/toque.

 

[DueSouth]

http://www.thestar.com/news/2007/02/08/students_slaying_remains_unsolved.html

Merry Christmas, everyone.

Do you mean this one, Chorley8?

I remember this case quite well. A quick search online didn't turn up much beyond the above article. I do remember reading somewhere that the killer tried hugging her and she tried pushing him away.

A strange case. You would think that if she were being threatened or harassed by someone, she would have told somebody. It does look like someone she knew, at least in passing.

 

[dotr]

http://www.thestar.com/news/2007/02/08/students_slaying_remains_unsolved.html

Merry Christmas, everyone.

Do you mean this one, Chorley8?



I remember this case quite well. A quick search online didn't turn up much beyond the above article. I do remember reading somewhere that the killer tried hugging her and she tried pushing him away.

A strange case. You would think that if she were being threatened or harassed by someone, she would have told somebody. It does look like someone she knew, at least in passing.

Merry Christmas!!


Chorley8 was right about the hat, it was distinctive in that not many men would wear one like that, imo. Wonder if he snatched it from Tao's head?
From the link..
rbbm.

"On Feb. 10, 2002, Tao Lin left driving school in the Keele St. and Finch Ave. W. area around 8 p.m. She walked through a parking lot, across Keele St. toward her home on Four Winds Dr.

As she came around the corner of 1 Four Winds Dr., a man grabbed her from behind with his arm around her neck and dragged her to the south side of the building. There he slit her throat and took her cellphone.

The attack lasted only a couple of minutes, Buck said, and Tao tried to fight her assailant off. During the attack, the killer cut his left hand or arm before he fled north on Keele St., passing a couple waiting at a bus stop. As he ran, his left arm swinging, he left a 163-metre-long blood trail.

"The blood trail stops suddenly at Murray Ross Parkway," Buck said, adding that police do not know if Tao's killer got into a car, hailed a cab or covered his wound and kept running.

From studying the blood pattern, police do know that he stopped running at one point, turned and looked back, then continued.

The killer also left behind another clue, a toque with a Pokemon emblem that police later learned had splatters of blood from both Tao and her killer."

 

[DueSouth]

The Pokemon motif is popular with young Asians. It is possible that this suspect might have been illegally in the country, and that's why he did not show up in any database, although that is just a possibility.

It could be a cultural code of silence that is protecting him, but I am surprised that someone is not tempted by the thought of all that cash in the reward. It could be fear of the individual, but the man is really a coward, and someone a couple of tough police officers could intimidate with just a withering gaze, IMHO.

I hope a tipster would keep the above in mind and make that call.

 

[dotr]

The Pokemon motif is popular with young Asians. It is possible that this suspect might have been illegally in the country, and that's why he did not show up in any database, although that is just a possibility.

It could be a cultural code of silence that is protecting him, but I am surprised that someone is not tempted by the thought of all that cash in the reward. It could be fear of the individual, but the man is really a coward, and someone a couple of tough police officers could intimidate with just a withering gaze, IMHO.

I hope a tipster would keep the above in mind and make that call.

Wondering if any taxi drivers might remember picking up an injured passenger in the area?
rbbm.
http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2002/0221/fo8-1.html

"The police said the murderer may have taken a taxi.

Because the murderer was also injured, he may have went to a clinic to seek treatment, the police said. The police have already contacted medical institutes in Toronto asking for information. The police also sent the blood collected for DNA testing.

According to reports from witnesses, the murderer appeared to be an Asian male of about 20 years old with a medium height and rather slim figure. Police still haven't found a motive for the murder.

A man who was unwilling to give his name said that he witnessed most of the incidence. He first saw Tao embrace a man, so he thought they were a couple of lovers. But he later saw the girl kick the man and fight with him for about four to eight minutes. By the time he realized that he had misunderstood the whole thing, Tao was on the ground.

The witness said he was very regretful that he hadn't call the police as soon as possible."

 

[DueSouth]

It would appear that this individual was likely a stalker who had fantasies about her after running into her somewhere.

She might have not even been aware of the suspect who was on the fringes of her life. Maybe he was a worker in a bar or restaurant she frequented, or a student at the university, or a guy who mopped floors in a building she was often in.

She might have known him peripherally, as he popped up now and again, but he was either written off as a minor nuisance or she just didn't even think of him at all.

Meanwhile, he could have been looking her up on the Web, following her, and finding out where she lived.

The theft of her cellphone is interesting. It reminds me of the Christine Prince case, where CP's camera was stolen; though I am not suggesting that the cases are connected.

Was the cellphone a trophy, or was there something on it that the killer felt could be linked to him? I wonder about the area where the killing took place. It seemed rather public, although it would already be dark at 8.00 p.m. on a February night.

 

[DueSouth]

http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/toronto?month=2&year=2002

The sun set at approx. 5.40 p.m. on February 10, 2002, in Toronto.

A couple of sociological backgrounders:

This crime took place close to the Jane/Finch corridor, a notoriously rough "priority" community in NW Toronto.

It also happened in the York University area, which has had well publicized issues with attacks on women over the years.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...take-action-over-sex-assaults/article6073870/

I find the following from the Star article interesting:

Buck knows the family may be suspicious of their daughter's former boyfriend, but police have no evidence that points to him, he said.
"That angle isn't closed," he said. "I still liaise with the police in California and if something came up, then we would follow that up."

It seems that this individual went out of his way to be cooperative and helpful, yet the police are still suspicious, for some reason. It is interesting that he left the country, but that could be for any innocent reason. JMHO.

 

[Chorley8]

Thanks so we know how she got there (and I had thought it was the plaza across the street). Did he follow her? How would he know she was going to cut across the small parking lot to 4 Winds where she lived? The parents assumptions are probably correct.....that LE guessing he took off and they think it well nigh hopeless. Pokeman: yes pop

 

[Chorley8]

popular with Asians and I think particularly Koreans - which could be interesting if they were fixed on an ethnically Chinese perp - though it doesn't sound as though they were thinking narrowly quite the opposite......

 

[Chorley8]

also the theft of the phone means he probably knew her or had at least contacted her or tried to.....or she him....

 

[DueSouth]

According to the article, the police tracked down and talked to everyone talked to on that phone. They could have missed someone, but I don't think so.

There may have been a picture on the phone or voice recording, though, that the killer wanted destroyed. He seemingly never turned it on or used it after the murder.

They obtained Tao's cellphone records – her cellphone was never used or recovered – and interviewed every person she had ever talked to on that phone....Toronto Star article. 02/08/07

 

[dotr]

According to the article, the police tracked down and talked to everyone talked to on that phone. They could have missed someone, but I don't think so.

There may have been a picture on the phone or voice recording, though, that the killer wanted destroyed. He seemingly never turned it on or used it after the murder.

They obtained Tao's cellphone records – her cellphone was never used or recovered – and interviewed every person she had ever talked to on that phone....Toronto Star article. 02/08/07

Random speculation, imo
It seems a little strange that someone who may know Tao would choose to attack her on the street, rather than at her home, work/ school,
where , presumably he could easily locate her.

If there was something on the phone perp wanted, he would have turned the phone on a few times to double-check he got what he wanted, imo.
Also wondering why perp would wear such an easily identifiable hat to commit a public murder?
Although if it was a spontaneous throat cutting of a young girl on the street, as opposed to planned, why did he have a weapon with him?
Wonder if Tao had recently left a restaurant or store of some type following a disagreement and perp fired up with rage, grabbed a knife/weapon, at work, hair tucked under hat, and charged after her.
Maybe weapon was returned to place of business, making it hard to find?

Of course none of this would explain possibility of perp hopping in a cab afterwards, unless driver was in on the plan, or maybe unknowingly paid to wait for perp down the street.
Why would he take the phone? Make the crime look like a robbery? Has some deeper symbolism to the killer?

 

[DueSouth]

Random speculation, imo
It seems a little strange that someone who may know Tao would choose to attack her on the street, rather than at her home, work/ school,
where , presumably he could easily locate her.

If there was something on the phone perp wanted, he would have turned the phone on a few times to double-check he got what he wanted, imo.
Also wondering why perp would wear such an easily identifiable hat to commit a public murder?
Although if it was a spontaneous throat cutting of a young girl on the street, as opposed to planned, why did he have a weapon with him?
Wonder if Tao had recently left a restaurant or store of some type following a disagreement and perp fired up with rage, grabbed a knife/weapon, at work, hair tucked under hat, and charged after her.
Maybe weapon was returned to place of business, making it hard to find?

Of course none of this would explain perp hopping in a cab afterwards, unless driver was in on the plan, or maybe unknowingly paid to wait for perp down the street.

I may be wrong about my understanding of cell phone technology but the following has occurred to me. When the phone is booted up; "on" and ready to access photos, recordings, etc. the user may download items or look at items, but as long as there is no "triangulation", it is not possible to tell where the phone is.

So, if you steal a phone, especially an older one from the early 2000's, without the sophisticated tracking we have today, as long as I don't place a call, which bounces off a tower and connects to you, it is hard to tell where you are.

I may be totally wrong about my understanding of the technology, but there it is. Someone who "gets it" better than I do may disagree with me, and I would welcome the education.

 

[DueSouth]

Regarding dotr's other excellent points:

The killer obviously didn't want to get caught, and felt that that location was the best to approach her. Maybe she lived with roommates and he would have to contend with other people in the house?

If my ideas about the cellphone are wrong, maybe he just smashed it or dumped it in a ravine, ensuring that what he feared may be on it was now lost forever.

I don't think that this was spontaneous; I think he knew her (see my stalker theory upthread). There may have been enough degrees of separation between the two of them for a connection not to be made by police or anyone else.

The darkness may have made him think that his identity, including clothing, were hidden well enough. Also, he could have initially worn the hat inside out, and maybe put it on right side out after it briefly fell out during the scuffle.

Maybe he wanted to meet with her like a stalker likely would; hanging around her area, waiting for her to meet him in an unexpected, and unwanted fashion, and he carried a weapon out of habit, and used it on impulse, not initially intending to kill her, but losing control after she rejected him.

She was just coming back from driver's education classes, so unless there is another stopover, I don't think she was anywhere in public with this guy. If she was dining with him, I think that she would have had a close enough relationship for friends or associates to know about.

His means of escape are pure speculation. He could have run through ravines, hydro fields or anything that would cut off a blood or scent trail

 

[dotr]

Not sure about cell phone technology, but my understanding is that if the phone was on, cell towers would pick up that info. and perp could probably look at pics too, imo.
Wonder where the phone is now?
If perp kept it as a trophy, assuming it could be tracked and perp and phone located.
Maybe it is still in the area, like down a sewer grate or something?

eta
Concerning dining reference post above, not suggesting that they dined together but that perhaps, perp worked as a cook or server ( weapon) at a place she patronized?

rbbm.
"His means of escape are pure speculation. He could have run through ravines, hydro fields or anything that would cut off a blood or scent trail"

Would a quick bike ride behind car exhausts, help with masking scent trail?

 

[DueSouth]

If the phone has remained off all this time, or the SIM card removed, I don't think it could be traced to any one location.

It is pure speculation why he even stole the phone. It is possible that maybe during the confrontation she dropped the phone, and he thought that it was his phone that he dropped himself, and mistakenly picked it up.

Perhaps he wanted the phone to see how long it would take for someone to call it, so he could figure out if his escape plans were working out or not, although that theory is far fetched, admittedly.

 

[DueSouth]

This case reminds me of the Mabel Wong case, that of a young Asian woman who vanished from the west end of Toronto in 1990, that is also unsolved. We discussed it in this forum some time ago.

Like Tao Lin, she didn't seem to have problems with anyone and vanished unexpectedly, and has never been heard from again. Unlike Tao, we don't know what happened to her (not a clear-cut homicide like this one), but it seemed that she was being stalked by someone.

It is possible that this was completely random, although it seems unlikely. Or that someone in her family or associates knows more than they are saying. If she was being harassed by someone, why did she seem happy when she talked to her parents?

I also thought that it could be some sort of "hit". Maybe one of her ex-boyfriends was involved in something and she became collateral damage.

It is hard to say.

 

[DueSouth]

Would a quick bike ride behind car exhausts, help with masking scent trail?

I'm not sure. I don't even know if police brought in the tracker dog, I was just thinking aloud.

About the blood trail, it stopped all of a sudden. It could be that he got into a vehicle, but if he was on foot, he would have had to move quickly, and put some angles between himself and the police.

 

[dotr]

Bumping CrimeSolver's original posts about the Tao Lin murder and Mabel Wong disappearance..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ronto-Crimes-Discussion&p=3531929#post3531929

"At 8 p.m. on Sunday, February 10th, 2002, Lin Tao, 19, a student at York University, suffered fatal stab and slash wounds to her throat as she walked home from the university to her apartment at 1 Four Winds Dr., just southeast of the sprawling campus. Tao was walking south along Keele St. when her attacker struck. Responding emergency workers found her body in the parking lot of her apartment building at 1 Four Winds Dr. Police believed the attacker was noticeably injured in the struggle, having probably sustained either scratches to his face or cut wounds from his own knife. A trail of the murderer’s blood marked his path as he fled north from Tao’s body on Keele St.’s west sidewalk. Police theorized he either flagged down a cab or a car, or got onto a bus somewhere between The Pond Rd. and York Blvd. A man who witnessed the entire attack said he saw Tao and the killer appear to embrace before she pushed the killer away. Then the two fought for 4 to 8 minutes, but the witness did not intervene. The murderer was described as an Asian male approximately 20 years of age, 5’6” or 5’7”, with a slim build and wearing dark clothing."


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ronto-Crimes-Discussion&p=3866780#post3866780


"On Tuesday, October 2nd, 1990, 23-year-old Mabel Wong was last seen by her family as she left their Bexley Cres. home at 10 p.m. On October 12th, Wong's Toyota Tercel was found abandoned in a parking lot at 1550 Jane St., roughly 1.5 km north of her home.
Although no trace of Wong was ever found, police felt foul play was involved, as Wong was a responsible young woman not given to rash, unpredictable conduct. In the weeks before her disappearance, she had complained to a co-worker at a Bathurst St. restaurant supply store that she was being followed."