CAR SEAT discussion

[RainCheck]

There are federal regs that have to be met as in testing and requirements but width and height and depth can vary greatly.

The britax seats depending on what version are much shorter than others. They don't often give a lot of rear facing time. Where as a Radian would.

So the seat can vary a lot as long when tested it holds up to the standards set.

I'm talking about infant rearfacing only car seats! Radian's are convertible car seats!

 

[SStarr33]

You are absolutely right, its not justification whatsoever for leaving him. Its also not a defense. The point I am outraged over is that its not at all representative how NG showed it to be, and this is a question we really want to know. But most who saw it are satisfied with that, I am not.

I wonder if they still make that car seat? If they do and NG didn't use it, I wonder if it is because the results were not as "good".

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm talking about infant rearfacing only car seats! Radian's are convertible car seats!

yes but it is the same thing.
The infant seats can have a weight limit from 22 to 40 lbs these days. Some are longer and some are smaller, Some are wider and some are more narrow. There is no regulation on the size of the car seat, Only that it holds the child it says it will and pass tests with an appropriately sized dummy inside.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm seeing a lot of semantics. What was said was : how far or how close was the distance between approximately the drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat


The drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat.

Again, the distance between the drivers seat (where Ross was sitting) and the head area end of the car seat[/B]. (where Copper's head would have been )

The answer was 6 inches.

It's clear as day in the reenactment and there is nothing confusing about this question or the answer to it. :moo:

This is bordering on ridiculous. Thanks for explaining again for the :doh::kickcan::deadhorse:

 

[Stolat]

Have no idea what you're saying. However, most car seats today have latch systems and so do new cars. Latch systems don't use belts.

What does that have to do with the fact that a car seat can be *between* the two front seats and still be 6 inches back from either of the two front seats?

I think we're just using two different forms of the word Between.

I'm referring to between as in it was not on the left side of the car and not on the right side of the car. I do not think for a moment Stoddard was suggesting it was wedged between the two front seats - first of all I would think the center console/armrest in the middle of the two seats would make that impossible.

But the only fact evident is that neither you or I can say for sure what Stoddard meant. Only he can. And I'm sure he will be asked to clarify at trial and that they will have a very clear diagram.

 

[popsicle]

I haven't watched the NG reenactment with the wrong car seat. Is that what your asking me?

:giggle: No I just liked your post.

 

[ReadyorNot]

Obviously in a trial you aren't going to use them interchangeably but for the purposes of an informal reenactment the differences would be so extreme as to declare it completely misleading. IMO

No not really, because if they misrepresented other details then how do we even know the feet area of the car seat was touching the back of the seat that it was strapped into?

 

[tlcya]

I will stay out of the car seat how close, intruding not intruding into the front seat debate. I have every confidence that LE and prosecution team will use the exact same model if not THE carseat in the exact same model vehicle with the seat settings exactly as they were on June 18th.

THAT is the video that will be used as evidence at trial and THAT is the video I will wait to see before deciding on exactly HOW unreasonable I feel the assertion is that RH didn't notice Cooper there.

My point, we can all argue all day and night about which news orgs reenactment is most or least accurate.

I couldn't care less. The only one I will consider accurate is the one that will eventually be placed into evidence at trial.

 

[Stolat]

All this means is that your car seat was not installed correctly.

Well yes, that was exactly what I was saying - and in order to properly install it, per the manufacturers instructions, I had to attach the latch to the buckle receptor.

Do the seats no longer get secured at the base anymore?

 

[RainCheck]

What does that have to do with the fact that a car seat can be *between* the two front seats and still be 6 inches back from either of the two front seats?

I think we're just using two different forms of the word Between.

I'm referring to between as in it was not on the left side of the car and not on the right side of the car. I do not think for a moment Stoddard was suggesting it was wedged between the two front seats - first of all I would think the center console/armrest in the middle of the two seats would make that impossible.

But the only fact evident is that neither you or I can say for sure what Stoddard meant. Only he can. And I'm sure he will be asked to clarify at trial and that they will have a very clear diagram.

The arm rest doesn't interfere with the top of the car seat that sticks out much further than the base of the car seat. A infant car seat does not have to be installed in the middle so the detective saying it's an infant car seat so it's inbetween the seats means it is rearfacing and sticks out in between the seats. It does not mean it was installed in the middle because it was an infant seat. I have a toddler who was in an infant seat until December 2013. His infant car seat protruded between the front seats of my Dodge Challenger. I now have a Radian RXT in there rearfacing and it does not protrude between the seats. There is about two inches between the Radian and the front seats.

 

[RainCheck]

Well yes, that was exactly what I was saying - and in order to properly install it, per the manufacturers instructions, I had to attach the latch to the buckle receptor.

Do the seats no longer get secured at the base anymore?

There are u shaped metal bars built into the car that the latches on the seat base click into. The belts don't get involved at all.

 

[New1]

I found another lie -- and this may have already been shared. Harris said to the detective that Cooper gave him a kiss, and Harris kissed him back (you know, in case they died in a car accident). Yet then said to the detective "he must have fallen asleep".

How does Cooper go from a happy, smiling, kissing little boy to sleeping in mere minutes?

Liar liar pants on fire!

Source: http://new.livestream.com/wildabouttrial/events/2490138/videos/55596876

About 16 minutes in.

MOO

Mel

Not even MINUTES. Cooper would have had to fall asleep within SECONDS of being put into that car seat if RH "forgot" him before he was to make that turn toward daycare because that turn was 30-40 SECONDS from Chick-fil-a per Det. Stoddard's testimony during the PC hearing. So it was within 30-40 seconds that RH forgot he had Cooper with him? That's just so hard to believe.

 

[Ruby]

STODDARD: Justin took Cooper out to the car. He went into the back seat where the car seat was situated. It's a rear-facing car seat so Cooper's head would be in between or almost in between the two front seats. He put Cooper in the vehicle. He stated he strapped him in tight. He went through a little spiel about how he'd watched You Tube videos about, you know, car seat regulations and stuff, and he knew that this was the right car seat and the right way of doing it. And he straps him in tight. And Cooper gives him a kiss. And he gives him a kiss back. And he says he always gives him the kiss in case they get into a car accident and he dies. He wanted Cooper to, you know, his last memory or Cooper to remember that he had been loved or that his daddy loved him.

He says right here it would have been between the seats! It's not possible it could have been behind them in that vehicle! Just simply not possible especially with a talk driver! Not unlikely, impossible!

bbm:
Here Stoddard is stating that the car seat is in between the two front seats.
Protruding is not mentioned here, distance is also not mentioned, just the position and I'm taking that as in the middle of the back seat.

The position of the car seat (middle of back seat, between two front seats) is not in question, I feel the "what's in question" is how far away was this car seat in comparison to the drivers seat and RH's position within the drivers seat.

The segment that SStar33 posted states 6 inches from drivers seat.

Difference in the wording falls under semantics and will not matter - hopefully photos were taken by LE of inside the car showing where/how baby Cooper's car seat was at the time of discovery. And we will have a chance to see them. Maybe then, questions will be answered :dunno:

 

[nomoresorrow]

All this talk about car seats would probably be useful for future discussions (cause I'm sure this will be hashed and re-hashed...) in the car seat discussion forum - Just a thought... http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?249256-general-car-seat-information-and-discussion-(discuss-measurements-and-requirements)&p=10736822#post10736822

 

[Cinnamon]

:sigh: Can't we all get just along :smile: and agree to disagree?

Somebody (sorry don't remember who) posted upthread about the reenactment being more of a demonstration. I agree with that. So, for me the fact that it wasn't the exact carseat is a moot point. I'm not a big NG fan, but the reenactment/demonstration allowed me to SEE the interior of the vehicle with a rearfacing carseat in it. Period. That's all I needed to see. My conclusion is that it is a very tiny vehicle and there is no way, IMO, that anybody (yet alone a big, tall person) could sit in that compact space and NOT see a carseat with a baby in!

Aaargggh! Six-inches behind the seat or six-inches from JRH, seat back or seat forward, seat reclined or seat not reclined, gang-bangers driving or friggin aliens driving, blah, blah, blah...IMO, NONE OF THAT MATTERS!!! At the end of the day, I am convinced that JRH left his child in that car on purpose. There is simply no other explanation for me. MOO, JMO, IMO...

 

[RainCheck]

bbm:
Here Stoddard is stating that the car seat is in between the two front seats.
Protruding is not mentioned here, distance is also not mentioned, just the position and I'm taking that as in the middle of the back seat.


The position of the car seat (middle of back seat, between two front seats) is not in question, I feel the "what's in question" is how far away was this car seat in comparison to the drivers seat and RH's position within the drivers seat.

The segment that SStar33 posted states 6 inches from drivers seat.

Difference in the wording falls under semantics and will not matter - hopefully photos were taken by LE of inside the car showing where/how baby Cooper's car seat was at the time of discovery. And we will have a chance to see them. Maybe then, questions will be answered :dunno:

We're all beating a dead horse at this point. I take it to mean the seat is inbetween then in the sense it's literally sticking out inbetween them, not positioned in the back center. Anyway, let's move on! I'm not changing anybody and they aren't changing me and in the long run we'll find out later who was right, lol!

 

[ReadyorNot]

That does not make sense to me. No matter how your seat is installed LATCH or seatbelt it should not move when installed. A lot of infant seats come with a base but can also be installed without the base and seat belt only.

Good point, but it only brings up another question. How do we know that Cooper's car seat was in the base? Obviously it would sit lower without it.

 

[leah]

I will stay out of the car seat how close, intruding not intruding into the front seat debate. I have every confidence that LE and prosecution team will use the exact same model if not THE carseat in the exact same model vehicle with the seat settings exactly as they were on June 18th.

THAT is the video that will be used as evidence at trial and THAT is the video I will wait to see before deciding on exactly HOW unreasonable I feel the assertion is that RH didn't notice Cooper there.

My point, we can all argue all day and night about which news orgs reenactment is most or least accurate.

I couldn't care less. The only one I will consider accurate is the one that will eventually be placed into evidence at trial.

He strapped Cooper in the car seat, gave him a kiss, drove a couple of minutes, forgot the exact time, parked the car, sat in the car for 30 seconds, anyone with a lick of common sense knows you would not forget to take the child out of the car with you. Maybe in those 30 seconds he was trying to figure out what he should do, or building the courage to leave his son in the car, I don't know, but to be distracted in that short period of time, I personally, would never believe this was an accident. And there is something very evil to feed your child and then kiss him, and then leave him in the car. What was he trying to prove by doing that? Justifying that he fed him and kissed him so Cooper would die knowing his dad loved him.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Good point, but it only brings up another question. How do we know that Cooper's car seat was in the base? Obviously it would sit lower without it.

Good question right? It would sit lower and more towards the back of the seat. While some people find the car seat discussion boring or bothersome it is part of this case. A big part of this case.

It will either help or hurt the defense.

 

[Stolat]

The arm rest doesn't interfere with the top of the car seat that sticks out much further than the base of the car seat. A infant car seat does not have to be installed in the middle so the detective saying it's an infant car seat so it's inbetween the seats means it is rearfacing and sticks out in between the seats. It does not mean it was installed in the middle because it was an infant seat. I have a toddler who was in an infant seat until December 2013. His infant car seat protruded between the front seats of my Dodge Challenger. I now have a Radian RXT in there rearfacing and it does not protrude between the seats. There is about two inches between the Radian and the front seats.

I know it doesn't have to ...

But here is the basic $10mill question: Was it?

There are two betweens here.

Between, as in touching either front seat

Between, as in centered in the rear middle passenger seat

I think (supposition) that the *whole* point Stoddard was making in saying it was between the two front seats (ie centered on the bench) is he was trying to make it impossible for the defense attorney to argue that it was positioned in a seat location such that Ross could not see it.

I'm done. Uncle. :happydance: