Caravan of 4000 migrants heading to the US/Mexico border

[Satchie]

Having been on the ground in Mexico (during the migration of the Zapatistas into Oaxaca)

Sorry, but this seems off. The Zapatistas have always been based on their land in Chiapas. That's like saying Brexit is a controversy about the British migrating to France.

 

[bluesneakers]

Stretching for miles, 7,000-strong migrant caravan treks through stifling heat in southern Mexico

On Friday, Mexican police used tear gas to block migrants from storming an official border crossing. But in the days since, Mexico has appeared unwilling to use force to stop the thousands of people who have illegally crossed the Suchiate River from Guatemala into Mexico and started walking north.

That may be in part because the migrants include hundreds of women and small children, some in strollers. It could also be because of the daunting size of the caravan, which stretched for at least two miles.

As the caravan headed north Sunday in the 90-degree heat, another group of roughly 1,500 migrants waited on the Guatemalan side of the river, hoping to enter Mexico legally.

Authorities said at least 640 caravan members already have entered legally and applied for refugee status in Mexico and are being detained while their applications are processed.

 

[Betty P]

I think the take home message is that our U.S. immigration policies cannot be driven "only" by emotion and sympathy for the poor.

We are the most generous nation in the world for foreign aid, and contribute the most NGO's (by both human numbers and dollars).

The best place to combat poverty and encourage economic prosperity is inside the countries and regions that promote and perpetuate poverty (and violence).

The U.N. and the U.S. have made it clear that Mexico has a responsibility to stop the transit of these kind of "caravans" that want to travel supported and unimpeded thru Mexico to get to the U.S. border.

Mexico is sufficiently developed to be "encouraged" on the world stage to take responsibility for preventing this kind of humanitarian and economic disaster.

Here is a thought experiment. What if the U.S. simply helped and encouraged the "caravan" to head straight up thru the center of the U.S. to the Canadian border, our neighbor to the north? We decide we won't house or feed them, don't take any applications for asylum or refugee status, and we help them to get to the Canadian border as soon as possible? We simply say, this "caravan" isn't our problem, because we already have a huge population of very poor citizens to help, Canada has more land space, fewer residents than California, more money for welfare for immigrants, and their PM Justin Trudeau has publicly welcomed all illegally immigrating aliens? There are a few very tiny, very nice border crossings into Manitoba, Canada between MN and North Dakota. Shall we funnel the caravan to our northern neighbor? How would that work out?

Another option is to handle the problems with government in their home countries. In the old days, UN agencies would help set up refugee camps and begin to work on resettling these people back into their own country. If there's violence and instability, we bring in the UN again, have everyone work out a solution for the country, help them elect better leaders, bring in UN peacekeeping forces and restabilize the situation. If there are US or global corporations that are helping feed government and economic instability, penalize them or kick them out.

There are ways to solve these problems without going to war. Behind most despotic leaders is usually a wealthy corporation or group of individuals who are extracting wealth from the country. Behind most efforts to expand massive immigration programs in the US are the same kind of people - wealthy corporations and billionaires looking for pools of workers looking to work for lower wages. Time to stop that stuff.

 

[bluesneakers]

Video:

Migrant caravan continues march toward U.S.

Kate Linthicum on Twitter

 

[Satchie]

If they get to Tapachula they will have walked 285 miles.

From there, it's 1,865 miles to El Paso, Texas.

 

[Satchie]

Another option is to handle the problems with government in their home countries. In the old days, UN agencies would help set up refugee camps and begin to work on resettling these people back into their own country. If there's violence and instability, we bring in the UN again, have everyone work out a solution for the country, help them elect better leaders, bring in UN peacekeeping forces and restabilize the situation. If there are US or global corporations that are helping feed government and economic instability, penalize them or kick them out.

There are ways to solve these problems without going to war. Behind most despotic leaders is usually a wealthy corporation or group of individuals who are extracting wealth from the country. Behind most efforts to expand massive immigration programs in the US are the same kind of people - wealthy corporations and billionaires looking for pools of workers looking to work for lower wages. Time to stop that stuff.

I agree, too much foreign aid to many countries is siphoned off by corrupt officials. But there is an anti-corruption commission in Honduras, might have some effect. In a Corruption Battle in Honduras, the Elites Hit Back

Unfortunately, when corruption is deeply ingrained in 'how things get done', the new replacement officials can become just as bad.

 

[mickey2942]

What is the logistics of 3000 people walking together, as a caravan, where do they get food, water, go to the bathroom? Apparently these people have no money. If there are babies, they need to change their diapers, and then clean the diapers, dry them. I assume that they don't have money for disposal diapers.

This is part of why, I believe that the logistics have been addressed by some people with a lot of money.

 

[fred&edna]

Video:

Migrant caravan continues march toward U.S.

Kate Linthicum on Twitter

Thank you for posting. I haven't been watching news videos so... before I clicked to watch your link... I prepared myself to see a mass of war-torn, frail people, but strangely, I saw what looked like (to me anyway) relatively healthy children and moms, and also some fit young men. Maybe the people I saw didn't represent the stereotype in my brain, or maybe I focused on the wrong people in the interviews??

 

[bluesneakers]

I doubt weak, frail or sickly people would attempt to walk that far, under those conditions (and in the hot weather).

Mothers want to save their children. Not sure why it’s a surprise to see them in the caravan.

 

[Fairy1]

Thank you for posting. I haven't been watching news videos so... before I clicked to watch your link... I prepared myself to see a mass of war-torn, frail people, but strangely, I saw what looked like (to me anyway) relatively healthy children and moms, and also some fit young men. Maybe the people I saw didn't represent the stereotype in my brain, or maybe I focused on the wrong people in the interviews??

So...what were you expecting to see?

 

[bluesneakers]

So...what were you expecting to see?

Maybe people expect desperate, frightened people to look a certain way? Poor, sickly, frail. Like you can’t be healthy if you are trying to escape violence and poverty?

 

[fred&edna]

Maybe people expect desperate, frightened people to look a certain way? Poor, sickly, frail. Like you can’t be healthy if you are trying to escape violence and poverty?

Seriously, yes. I expect desperate people to appear desperate-looking. Wouldn't most people look unhealthy, scared, and impoverished if they'd spent years trying to survive in a violent and poverty-stricken area of the world? Is this opinion offensive??

 

[fred&edna]

My cousin has been traveling to guatemala the past few months - medical tourism trips (dental implants). He loves the people, the place... everything! Have to wonder who is making money at these med/resort places??

 

[bluesneakers]

“It’s time for me to go back’: Deportees join migrant caravan to return to U.S.

And then there were the deportees. Many of the migrants here had previously lived in the United States, for years or even decades, joining the caravan to reunite with their children, or to resume old jobs. They were undeterred by the American authorities who had apprehended them or the U.S. president who promised to keep them out again.

“It’s time for me to go back to the United States. It’s a country where I can live my life, unlike Guatemala,” said Job Reyes, 36, who had spent most of his childhood and teenage years in Los Angeles, attending kindergarten through high school there.
...
Imner Anthony Fuentes, 29, had the same reaction. He had been deported five months ago from Birmingham, Ala. His son was still living there, with his U.S. citizen girlfriend, not far from the framing store where Fuentes had worked for six years. He was used to the back-and-forth: He said he had been deported six times.

“That’s just how it is,” Fuentes said. “They catch you, and you try to get back.”
...
Juan Jimenez, 32, said he was deported back to Honduras six months ago from Phoenix, where he worked for a wood-flooring business. He was on his way to see his 6-year-old son, still living in Arizona.

“I miss him,” he said.

‘It’s time for me to go back’: Deportees join migrant caravan to return to U.S.

 

[Fairy1]

Seriously, yes. I expect desperate people to appear desperate-looking. Wouldn't most people look unhealthy, scared, and impoverished if they'd spent years trying to survive in a violent and poverty-stricken area of the world? Is this opinion offensive??

Do you mean like Holocaust victims? Or those who suffered during the potato famine in Ireland?

 

[kas]

Yeah, because Mexico will be sooooo much better for them.


So, why is Trump begging Mexico to handle it? We have Border Control. Can they not handle it or is it considered political suicide less than 3 weeks before the mid-terms?

There is zero chance of taking the politics out of this. Sorry.

He asked Mexico to step in because they have to go through Mexico to get to the US. Besides to claim asylum I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do that at the first country you come into.

 

[Tripod]

He asked Mexico to step in because they have to go through Mexico to get to the US. Besides to claim asylum I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do that at the first country you come into.

And no, our Border Patrol folks do not have the current resources to handle this, nor does Homeland Security or our judicial system, or Health and Human Resources, and I could go on. Certain sectors of the southern border have already been overwhelmed by recent thousands of illegal crossings. Head of the Rio Grande sector is begging for help.

 

[kaen]

Sorry, but this seems off. The Zapatistas have always been based on their land in Chiapas. That's like saying Brexit is a controversy about the British migrating to France.

I was in the zocalo having a beer when a major worker's strike happened and the Zapatistas and the workers took over the town square for a week during the presidential elections of 1994. They had made moves from Chiapas north to Oaxaca. They actually continued to get foot holds in northern states as in this articulo from BBC Mundo | AMÉRICA LATINA | Zapatistas en Oaxaca in 2001.

The Zapatistas were looking to expand (and continue to look to expand in all regions of Mexico) based on the issues of wealth distribution and access to health and education. Having spent time in the region, it is not like the Brexit issue and France. Oaxaca and Chiapas are the same country and the Zapatistas have not been an economic force but a force for change that has not always been peaceful and open. The Zaparistas have also been killed by government backed forces throughout their struggles. The above article is a good one if you read Spanish. More recently the Zapatistas have been a presence in Oaxaca (once again) teacher strikes as well.

 

[kaen]

My cousin has been traveling to guatemala the past few months - medical tourism trips (dental implants). He loves the people, the place... everything! Have to wonder who is making money at these med/resort places??

Generally, the well educated Ladinos as opposed to the indigenous people who still struggle to get access to education, wealth and opportunity. Or, at least, it was that way the last time I travelled through the beautiful country.

 

[fred&edna]

Generally, the well educated Ladinos as opposed to the indigenous people who still struggle to get access to education, wealth and opportunity. Or, at least, it was that way the last time I travelled through the beautiful country.

Do "the well educated Ladinos" not try to help the indigenous people? Are they somehow prevented from providing assistance... due to corruption, violence, etc. Or are they simply callous and greedy??