CA Cary Stayner

[Noirdame79]

From the article:

According to court records reviewed by The Associated Press and

subsequently sealed, Stayner's attorneys allege his confession wasn't voluntary

and that he was the victim of ''psychological coercion.''

FBI agent Kenneth Hittmeier said

Wednesday that on the day he took Stayner to Yosemite for the walkthrough, Stayner

was advised of his rights three times.

''Early on, when we took him from

the jail, we made it clear to him he was doing it voluntarily,'' Hittmeier said.

Hittmeier also said Stayner appeared

''almost eager to go.''

BBM

On July 24, 1999, in an FBI interview room in Sacramento, special agent Jeffrey L. Rinek asked Cary Stayner if he would discuss the death of Yosemite naturalist Joie Armstrong.
Stayner, according to Rinek, said yes. What happened next is a mystery -- and may remain one, on the request of defense attorneys who successfully petitioned a Santa Clara County judge yesterday to bar the public from that part of Rinek's testimony.

Without describing the testimony, Stayner's attorneys, Marcia Morrissey and Michael Burt, told Judge Thomas Hastings that its release to the press and public could prejudice potential jurors against their client -- more so than his already public confessions to the slayings of Armstrong and the earlier slayings of Yosemite tourists Carole Sund, 42, her daughter Julie, 15, and family friend Silvina Pelosso, 16.

Morrissey is asking for a court order suppressing those confessions, saying they were made after inappropriate questioning by Rinek and others of her client. Investigators say Stayner originally invoked his right to remain silent but later changed his mind.
But in court yesterday, attorneys for a slew of Bay Area newspapers, including The Chronicle, argued that no matter how damning Rinek's testimony might be, it is "next to inconceivable" that it would poison the minds of every eligible juror in Santa Clara County.

Morrissey disagreed. She said her pretrial surveys found that 69 percent of Santa Clara County respondents already think Stayner is probably or definitely guilty -- a figure she feared could pass 80 percent if Rinek's testimony went public.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/public-barred-from-testimony-stayner-s-2857431.php

Law enforcement isn't always right or necessarily honest. The FBI was criticized for poorly handling the case. As mentioned in another linked article I posted, Eugene "Rufus" Dykes pled the fifth when he was questioned by the defense. Why would he do that if he wasn't involved in the murders? Either way, it appears that Stayner did not get a fair trial.

JMO

 

[MrsWatson]

Woman recalls moment family learned they were target of 1999 Yosemite killer: 'Our lives were flipped upside-down'

Lenna said police told her family Cary Stayner tried three times to kill them.

abcnews.go.com

That dream ended for Lenna in 1999, when she learned from authorities that Cary Stayner was not only responsible for the brutal slayings of four women in and near Yosemite that terrified residents and tourists, but that he'd also tried three separate times to kill her and her family.
*
She also recalled that he always carried a backpack, which authorities described as his "murder kit." It contained a gun, duct tape and a knife.
*
The family learned from the FBI that Cary Stayner had tried to kill them on three separate occasions including after he'd killed Armstrong. Before he'd driven to the nudist colony, Lenna said, Cary Stayner had gone looking for them but Lenna and her sister were at their grandmother's house.

 

[Noirdame79]

Woman recalls moment family learned they were target of 1999 Yosemite killer: 'Our lives were flipped upside-down'

Lenna said police told her family Cary Stayner tried three times to kill them.

abcnews.go.com

That dream ended for Lenna in 1999, when she learned from authorities that Cary Stayner was not only responsible for the brutal slayings of four women in and near Yosemite that terrified residents and tourists, but that he'd also tried three separate times to kill her and her family.
*
She also recalled that he always carried a backpack, which authorities described as his "murder kit." It contained a gun, duct tape and a knife.
*
The family learned from the FBI that Cary Stayner had tried to kill them on three separate occasions including after he'd killed Armstrong. Before he'd driven to the nudist colony, Lenna said, Cary Stayner had gone looking for them but Lenna and her sister were at their grandmother's house.

It's odd that he would confess to this (and yes, I am aware of it). To make himself look worse, perhaps because he had a need to be punished. I also don't fully trust the FBI, given how they handled the case.

JMO

 

[Maat99]

I guess I’m not following why you would think the statements by Stayner defense lawyer re: the “real” killer somehow proves his innocence? Defense lawyers always say that stuff ahead of trial don’t they? And why is some vague statement some meth head drug addict made under duress (not even a confession) believable but not the detailed, voluntary confession by Stayner ? You aren’t disputing that he decapitated a young woman in the same area during the same timeframe. He has provided pretty detailed info on how he carried out the first three murders and cleaned up afterwards.

 

[Noirdame79]

​

I guess I’m not following why you would think the statements by Stayner defense lawyer re: the “real” killer somehow proves his innocence? Defense lawyers always say that stuff ahead of trial don’t they? And why is some vague statement some meth head drug addict made under duress (not even a confession) believable but not the detailed, voluntary confession by Stayner ? You aren’t disputing that he decapitated a young woman in the same area during the same timeframe. He has provided pretty detailed info on how he carried out the first three murders and cleaned up afterwards.

There were people from the start who believed the original suspects were involved, including some of the victims' family members. As I said, Dykes and these other men were arrested in March 1999. Dykes took the fifth as he was called to testify at Stayner's trial (I posted a link to that as well). The Armstrong murder was sloppy, with a lot of trace evidence left behind and there was a single victim. Yet Stayner was somehow able to overpower three victims, kill them, and not leave any traces behind? It's not adding up. He was interviewed by LE in March 1999 and was ruled out as a suspect.

Because the Armstrong murder took place in the same area (where he lived) and had a similar mode of death does not automatically mean Stayner was responsible for the Sund-Pelosso murders. It was detailed that he suffers from mental illness, and he was also a drug user at the time.



JMO

 

[rleigh123]

<sbm>

Just for my understanding: the parents of an abducted ~6 year old are annoying for being “portrayed” as victims?

Care to elaborate where the annoyance comes from?

IMO


I know this isn't directed at me but as someone who will always have this case on my heart, I'll answer.

Of course the parents were victims because of what happened to dear Steven. Everyone with a heart felt for them.

Later, truths start coming out. It becomes known that Steven's dad treated him badly when he returned. Which made me hurt so much for Steven. We learn that Dad allegedly molested his daughters. And that Mom let her father, who allegedly molested her as a child, live in the house with her daughters. (In the 2002 news articles, linked a few comments back.)

And, they raised a convicted serial killer who partakes of ch!ld _orn. Yes, parents of SKs are not always to blame. They may be victims too. But most of the time, SKs have a horrid upbringing. Usually at the very least there are many red-flag parenting moments. In this case, I see many.

In the articles, Mom has flowery words for Cary and seems indifferent to Steven, even practically blaming him for Cary's behavior. She said he wasn't the same Steven. No blame on Dad. Stereotypical in-denial mom in a family rife with abuse. (I realize the pro-Cary journalist may have done some crafty editing, but Mom's words are her own.)

So yeah, my sympathy level for the parents has dropped drastically.

Thinking of Steven and the little boy he saved and the fact that they're both gone brings tears. They, along with the women who Cary killed, are the real victims. The boys were victimized again by the justice system who gave their abductor an absurdly low sentence.

(Thinking of Steven's abductor --- who got five years and attempted to procure a boy even as he was 70+, extremely ill, and bound to a wheelchair --- brings anger and raised blood pressure. But that's another story. Just another way Steven was wronged.)


IMO

 

[SophieRose]

What does this mean? Next door neighbors? For how long? Do you know where I can find this info?

ETA And where can I find info about his damage "in utero" that you mentioned?

Steven was first taken to a cabin in Cathey's Valley, about 30 miles east of Merced, it's on the way to Yosemite.
 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Catheys_Valley%2C_California.jpg

There is no physical evidence linking him to the Sund-Pelosso murders - no DNA, nothing. That alone should have raised reasonable doubt. There were also major discrepancies in his confession, especially regarding the murder of Juli Sund. You said he has no remorse when in fact he expressed remorse for killing Joie Armstrong. When asked by the FBI if he felt good about killing Joie, he said that he did not. He's also impotent, so he did not rape the victims. All of the psychiatrists who examined him concluded that he is not a psychopath, and he expressed empathy for the victims.

There is far more to this case than has been presented. As for Park Dietz, everything else he said was in favor of the prosecution (whom of course, he always works for). Did all those psychiatrists conspire together to say that Stayner does not lack empathy and is not a psychopath?

Stayner's parents knew he was mentally disturbed from a young age, and did nothing. When it comes right down to it, there is no proof that he committed the Sund-Pelosso murders and he should not have been convicted. A confession alone is not enough. Those are facts.

Park Dietz worked for the defense in the Xerox murders.

 

[SophieRose]

Clipped by me.


IMO

Yes, I know, all of that was in the articles. Like I said, the articles made me feel sick partially because of how it heavily favored Cary and showed Steven in a negative light. Both of the articles were written by the same woman.

Also, as I said, I understand the articles were about Cary and the abuse done to him. But like I said, it went further than that.

IMO

I always felt the family was doing everything they could to save Cary Stayner from the death penalty, throw in whatever. It's been done in many cases. Remember Charles Ng's father's testimony during his penalty phase.

 

[SophieRose]

There is lack of DNA in many cases, the non presence of it does not exonerate a suspect, the fact he did not rape any of them gives you an explanation as to why there would be no DNA that also doesn't man the motive wasn't sexual.

Contrary to popular belief , not all serial killers sexually assault victims, and not every serial killers motive is sexual either, for ex we only had DNA from the BTK cases, because he masturbated at the scenes, Rader never raped any of his victims either, if he had chosen to do so in another location they may have never linked the DNA through his daughter.

I will say again what i was taught decades ago ...A free roaming suspect, a suspect being interrogated and a suspect in court are 3 totally different animals.

If they truly have remorse, for what they've done why not turn themselves in especially if they know they will almost certainly kill again?

Stayner confessed in custody, which isn't really that rare they do somewhat regularly when faced with surmounting evidence against them,that isn't a measure of remorse, sometimes they also do that in an attempt to curtail any other murders they may have been involved, in , but more often its a means to try to cop an insanity plea ...which he tried he also asked for CSM in return for his confession which was most likely an attempt to bolster the insanity claim . To the experienced investigator, you see the constant manipulation , which is part of the psychopathic personality.

As for the psychiatrists ill say this and these are facts also , the sickening number of deviant criminals deemed by psychiatrists to be "no threat to society" , to then later be released and commit some of the most heinous crimes in history should indicate that sometimes (all too often for ANY of these victims families) psychiatrists get it wrong.

If you know anything about inmate psychiatric treatment, its often self reported, and treated accordingly. Dietz took the bait with Kuklinski, Kuklinski admitted himself he manipulated Dietz... It happens .

Behavior reveals personality, that's why they call profilers to try to catch an UNSUB, psychiatry is how to treat disorders and mental illness.

Stayner may not have raped any of the women but he did sexually assault the two girls. In fact when SP was crying and he found out she was on her period, he took JS into the next door hotel room, then took SP into the bathroom, placed her in the tub and strangled her (I think with a rope as he had done to CS.)

 

[Deleted member 19575]

It's odd that he would confess to this (and yes, I am aware of it). To make himself look worse, perhaps because he had a need to be punished. I also don't fully trust the FBI, given how they handled the case.

JMO

I always feel horrible for those

Steven was first taken to a cabin in Cathey's Valley, about 30 miles east of Merced, it's on the way to Yosemite.
 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Catheys_Valley%2C_California.jpg

Park Dietz worked for the defense in the Xerox murders.

Oh geez that story! I saw it recently and remember the interview with his idiot son, who still insists someone else did it.

 

[Deleted member 19575]

I always felt the family was doing everything they could to save Cary Stayner from the death penalty, throw in whatever. It's been done in many cases. Remember Charles Ng's father's testimony during his penalty phase.

which is fair enough....Mrs Armstrong did not want him to get the DP, but that was only one case.

 

[Deleted member 19575]

It's odd that he would confess to this (and yes, I am aware of it). To make himself look worse, perhaps because he had a need to be punished. I also don't fully trust the FBI, given how they handled the case.

JMO

I felt so horrible for that girl. I always feel bad for those who are the ones who "got away". It was all about timing....he planned to rape and kill the girlfriend and her daughters. It didn't happen, so he murdered those other women. Horrible!

 

[SophieRose]

IMO


I know this isn't directed at me but as someone who will always have this case on my heart, I'll answer.

Of course the parents were victims because of what happened to dear Steven. Everyone with a heart felt for them.

Later, truths start coming out. It becomes known that Steven's dad treated him badly when he returned. Which made me hurt so much for Steven. We learn that Dad allegedly molested his daughters. And that Mom let her father, who allegedly molested her as a child, live in the house with her daughters. (In the 2002 news articles, linked a few comments back.)

And, they raised a convicted serial killer who partakes of ch!ld _orn. Yes, parents of SKs are not always to blame. They may be victims too. But most of the time, SKs have a horrid upbringing. Usually at the very least there are many red-flag parenting moments. In this case, I see many.

In the articles, Mom has flowery words for Cary and seems indifferent to Steven, even practically blaming him for Cary's behavior. She said he wasn't the same Steven. No blame on Dad. Stereotypical in-denial mom in a family rife with abuse. (I realize the pro-Cary journalist may have done some crafty editing, but Mom's words are her own.)

So yeah, my sympathy level for the parents has dropped drastically.

Thinking of Steven and the little boy he saved and the fact that they're both gone brings tears. They, along with the women who Cary killed, are the real victims. The boys were victimized again by the justice system who gave their abductor an absurdly low sentence.

(Thinking of Steven's abductor --- who got five years and attempted to procure a boy even as he was 70+, extremely ill, and bound to a wheelchair --- brings anger and raised blood pressure. But that's another story. Just another way Steven was wronged.)


IMO

In the original complaints, the sex crimes were included, but were quickly dropped and Parnell was only charged with the abduction in Merced County. Steven said the sexual assaults did not start until Santa Rosa (Sonoma County) and then continued in Mendocino County.

If I remember right there was talk about charging on the various sex crimes but the parents didn't want SS to have to relive that time. I can't find anything on it though.

 

[Noirdame79]

which is fair enough....Mrs Armstrong did not want him to get the DP, but that was only one case.

I always felt the family was doing everything they could to save Cary Stayner from the death penalty, throw in whatever. It's been done in many cases. Remember Charles Ng's father's testimony during his penalty phase.

There's no reason to think that the SA in the family didn't happen. The uncle that molested Cary had been convicted of child molestation, the father was ordered into therapy in 1986 for molesting his daughters (this was backed up via court records). The daughters were going to testify about their father abusing them but the prosecution objected and the judge didn't allow it. The mother admitted to allowing her father to live with the family even though he molested her as a child. It's also worth noting that none of the family attended the trial until they were scheduled to testify, most likely because they didn't like the idea of their secrets being revealed.

There are mitigation experts and psychiatrists who investigate the defendant's life and look at court documents, interview relatives, etc. Many people who knew the Stayners said the entire family was "off". It wasn't just Cary or about Steven's abduction. It's easy to say that someone is born a certain way but there are almost always environmental factors at work.

Edited to add: The fact that these parents refused to get their children professional help is a big red flag that nobody picked up on at the time. Cary was diagnosed with Trichotillomania at age 3, which is very telling that there was something wrong in the household.

JMO

 

[Noirdame79]

From an article in The Fresno Bee, reprinted at Crime Library.org

By mid-April, those who had been apprehended-on-suspicion were ordered to testify in front of a grand jury in Fresno, California. "A few weeks later," says the Fresno Bee, "(James) Maddock (in charge of the FBI manhunt) ...confirmed what The Bee and other news media outlets already were reporting: that the key players in the sightseer slayings had been arrested and were in jail on unrelated charges."

Although not named in print at the time, these names have since been published by the Fresno Bee:

• Michael "Mick" Larwick, 42, of Modesto, part of a vagabond group of methamphetamine drug users and friends centered in the Modesto area. Larwick, who grew up in Tuolumme County near where the bodies of Carole Sund and Silvina Pelosso were found, was jailed March 16 after he allegedly shot a Modesto police officer, an event that was ensued by a 14-hour standoff. He has a long criminal record and has been questioned extensively by the FBI. He denies any role in the Yosemite slayings.
• Eugene"Rufus" Dykes, 32, also of Modesto and Larwick's half-brother. Arrested in March, he is now serving a year at Deuel Institute for an unrelated parole violation and has a long criminal record including sex and weapons convictions. In an interview from Deuel in June, he denies any involvement in the murders.
• Billy Joe Strange, 39, an El Portal parolee who worked at the Cedar Lodge lounge and restaurant, where the murdered women were last seen. He was arrested March 5 when he allegedly reported to his parole officer with liquor on his breath. The FBI pushed for Strange's arrest, but he denied any part in the triple murders. Reportedly, many friends have rushed forward to his aid, calling the FBI's suspicion a travesty.
• Darrell Gray Stephens, 55, Strange's roommate. Convicted in 1978 for rape and robbery, he was jailed March 14 for failing to register as a sex offender. Stephens told the Bee that he is innocent.

While the four men listed above were considered the main murder suspects in the initial inquiries, others have since been questioned by the FBI. These people, who were never regarded as the possible killers, were nonetheless dragged into the case as perhaps abettors or witnesses:

• Rachel Lou Campbell, 36, of Modesto, was charged in April with stealing checks and credit cards, and converting them into cash and merchandise worth $365,000. Campbell, who pleaded innocent to that charge, reportedly is a key witness. When first arrested on mail fraud charges, she had in her possession Carole Sund's checking account and automated teller machine numbers.
• Larry Duane Utley, 41, an associate of Dykes and Larwick, first picked up during a March parole sweep. He was arrested in May on an unrelated crime charge, but was soon released.
• Teresa Kay Gray, 36, of Modesto. The FBI task force investigating Yosemite issued a federal warrant for her arrest after she failed to appear in Stanislaus County drug court in June.
• Kenneth "Soldier" Stewart, 24, a former cellmate of Dykes who was charged with attempted murder. He has been questioned about any involvement.
• Angelia Dale, who testified before the federal grand jury. She was subpoenaed because she is a friend of Dykes and Larwick.
• Maria Ledbetter, 24, of Modesto, an admitted methamphetamine addict and former girlfriend of Dykes, about whom she was questioned extensively.
• Jeffrey Wayne Keeney, 32, of Modesto. Arrested on an unrelated drug charge, he has been questioned about the Yosemite case.

By the end of June, the FBI had reviewed the testimonies of and the evidence linked to the suspects in custody. At that time, the Bureau stated that, while no one had yet been charged, it felt that those responsible for killing the three women at Yosemite were already behind bars.

Suspects — Cary Stayner and the Yosemite Murders — Crime Library

On September 16, 1989, recovered abduction victim Steven Stayner died in a tragic motorcycle accident. His brother Cary was changed by Steven's sudden, unexpected death -- changed into a serial killer.

www.crimelibrary.org

As previously mentioned, Eugene Dykes later confessed to the murders but recanted; he was called to testify in the defense phase of Cary Stayner's trial, and took the Fifth after he was sworn in. How did Rachel Lou Campbell, an associate of Dykes and Larwick, end up with Carole Sund's banking information?

Not surprisingly, this information is left out of documentaries, etc. This case is nowhere near as simple as it has been portrayed.

JMO