Case Against Darin?

[accordn2me]

Not me.

I do think Dana not testifying was mighty odd though and can only suspect the reason the defense did not put her on the stand was because she would incriminate Darlie. Don't know why the State didn't call her.

:laugh:NOT YOU! Now Mary's gonna say I infiltrated Websleuths and fabricated your post.

I'm good!

 

[accordn2me]

They had big money problems, but you already know that. Slip, slide, two-step, ignore, blame, convolute...

Come on, baby, let's do the twist...and DON'T step on my blue suede shoes.

YA MOMMA DON'T DANCE AND YA DADDY DON'T ROCK-N-ROLL! :dance::dance::dance:

 

[Dani_T]

Lol. Ok. Looks like it was me

Notice all my qualifications on it though

 

[accordn2me]

qualifications: You had at least as many as I did when I mentioned that "someone" mentioned it.

:truce:

OK, DT, you really know a lot about that screen. Since this important question was overlooked, I'll direct it directly to you rather than everyone:

What do y'all think about Cron's initial position (or was it Linch's idea) that the screen had been cut from the inside? I know in Linch's testimony he said something to the effect of, "there was one indication that the cutting was done from the outside." Wasn't it Brantly who argued the cut was done from outside and then the investigator changed his position?

 

[Dani_T]

What do y'all think about Cron's initial position (or was it Linch's idea) that the screen had been cut from the inside? I know in Linch's testimony he said something to the effect of, "there was one indication that the cutting was done from the outside." Wasn't it Brantly who argued the cut was done from outside and then the investigator changed his position?

If you have a point of reference for Cron's testimony about the screen could you give me the URL as a quick skim didn't turn it up.

Linch's opinion from the start was that it was cut from the outside-

Linch - http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-37.php#1

23 A. The initial request was to try to
24 determine which way it's cut and how it's cut. Examining
25 it microscopically, it was my opinion that the cut
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2897
1 started, if cut from the outside, started on the right
2 side and went toward the left. The reason for that
3 conclusion was the -- like the photograph in the center
4 top of the poster, it shows that the rubber material is
5 denuded in the direction of knife flow.

10 Q. Okay. Did you ever form an opinion as
11 to whether or not you thought this cut had been made from
12 the outside looking in or from the inside of the garage
13 looking out?
14 A. There is one microscopic finding that
15 is more suggestive of it being punched from the outside.
16 The scanning electron micrograph in the top right of this
17 exhibit is a view of the back side, that would be the
18 view from inside the garage of the screen cross strands.
19 Now, the first cut occurs on that strand coming down,
20 right where you are indicating.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. Now, the strand to the right of that,
23 indicates a stress puncture. If the knife goes in and
24 that is the first strand that is cut, the strand next to
25 it is experiencing the force, in my opinion, going inward
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2904

Brantley concurrs about it being cut from the outside- but I would speculate that he was primarily reliant upon the scientific testing and results from Linch since he did not examine the screen himself

2 Why would an offender break into a
3 home, or gain access to this home, and then take that
4 knife and then go back outside and cut the screen, to
5 come back in?

15 Q. Did you examine that screen?
16 A. Did I examine the screen itself?
17 Q. Um-hum. (Attorney nodding head
18 affirmatively.)
19 A. No, sir.
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-40.php#1

So, no, Linch didn't change his mind as a result of Brantley. Linch's testimony always was that he thought it was cut from the outside and Brantley in his testimony took that on board.

 

[beesy]

REALLY!? How do they know the order of the stabs? Man, what was I doing while they were developing that technology....:waitasec: I totally didn't know they could tell the order of the wounds. I would almost believe Mulder is/was the top gun defense lawyer in Dallas before I would think that a doctor, or a psychic even, could look at a dead person and tell the order of the wounds. That's AMAZING!

First of all you asked for help, then you go attacking my intelligence with your bloody sarcasm?
Secondly as much as I appreciate Mary taking up for me, what I wrote came out of Chris' book, not the trial testimony and not the coroner. Page 470 from Media Tried Justice Denied
"The white numbers show the possible sequence Damon was stabbed"
I was using Chris' book as a reference because the pix you saw on the Darlie site are from his book, and you have been asking questions pertaining to MTJD while waiting for it's arrival! I was doing what I thought you wanted me to do, interpreting the small wounds. Why should I look thru transpricts to answer your question? Chris' book is full of bull***** but that's what it said, so that's what I wrote. And it is possible for forensics to make an educated guess about the order of stab or bullet wounds. I'm not saying Chris did that, but it is possible to estimate, through blood spatter patterns, cast off blood, footprints, Luminol, etc!! Not in this case, but in many others they can if they have the body at the crime scene

 

[beesy]

Ok, from what I can tell, they circled those wounds to show they were a different type of wound. There is nothing said about a different knife used on Damon. On page 470 of your yet-to-be shipped book, the wounds are numbered in white, in the order they occured. The little circled ones are the first 3 stabs. If that is correct, then those little wounds are either hesitation wounds or just not struck hard enough. Did she have to up her nerve to stab Damon? If Devon had struggled with her, she might have been afraid to start with Damon. Those cuts would have awoken him, if they were the first 3, as Chris says. Perhaps this is where he said "Mommy". She always included Damon saying that in every story. Maybe because he really did say it.

My original post in case you forget to read it again. Also please note that I said "IF this is correct"

 

[beesy]

Hey, beesy, I understand ya, darlin! You get back to basics. That's where it all begins and ends, right?

What the hell does that mean? I should get back to basics like A,B,Cs and 1,2,3s????? They can estimate order of wounds by blood spatter, and other forensics. I'm not saying on Darlie's case, but in general they can. Ever watch CourtTV or A&E!!! Back to basics? How demeaning!!!

 

[beesy]

OH, so they didn't have money problems. Gosh, I wonder why they killed the boys. :waitasec:

Yes, they did have money problems! I said hiring a top attorney made it look like they had money even though the didn't. Darin begged and borrowed and sold for that money. No way would they have let Darlie be represented by a public defender because that right there says you don't have enough money to hire one. And it was important to the Routiers for everybody to think they were loaded!
It's very doubtful that money was the reason Darlie killed her boys. There was something else at the heart of the whole thing.

 

[beesy]

Lol. Ok. Looks like it was me

Notice all my qualifications on it though

You, Goody and I have discussed why Dana was not called and why she stormed off the Leeza show in a huff, even brought up the rumor of Darin having an affair with Dana

 

[Mary456]

What the hell does that mean? I should get back to basics like A,B,Cs and 1,2,3s????? They can estimate order of wounds by blood spatter, and other forensics. I'm not saying on Darlie's case, but in general they can. Ever watch CourtTV or A&E!!! Back to basics? How demeaning!!!

I meant that as a compliment, meaning you know the bottom line, the basics. I was trying to stand up for you, because Accordn2me was making a joke of your comment about the chronological order of the wounds. Sorry about that...as they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

The ME couldn't determine which wound was made first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or whatever...and blood spatter, CourtTV and A&E didn't factor into the conclusion. I was just relaying Dr. Janice Towensend-Parchman's testimony, since she conducted Damon's autopsy. If you disagree with her findings, that's ok by me.

 

[accordn2me]

My original post in case you forget to read it again. Also please note that I said "IF this is correct"

Beesy,

I did have a little fun at your expense - but only after you sided with Mary about the statement I made about the reason Mulder was hired. You brought it on yourself, indirectly. However, I will contritely ask for your forgiveness.
:truce:

And thank you for your help. I didn't expect you to read the transcript to answer the question. I'm pretty sure the answer won't be found in the transcript. I do hope you, and at least one other particular person, comes to the realization that just because something is or is not in the transcript, does not mean that it did or did not happen.

 

[beesy]

The ME couldn't determine which wound was made first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or whatever...and blood spatter, CourtTV and A&E didn't factor into the conclusion. I was just relaying Dr. Janice Towensend-Parchman's testimony, since she conducted Damon's autopsy. If you disagree with her findings, that's ok by me.

I said this in my original post, but I repeat, NOT in Darlie's case, but in many they can estimate the order of the wounds. NOT in Darlie's case. In general, NOT in Darlie's case. Court TV and A&E programs do figure in on this in some cases NOT in Darlie's
Let's do a murder scene. You find a body in a bedroom, but there's blood in the kitchen and down the hall. The attack didn't begin there. Perhaps the victim was caught in the middle of something in the kitchen, a pot was left on the open burner. Forensics already knows where the wounds on the body are since by then she'd been removed from the house and autopsied They say well since she was interrupted in the kitchen she must have been standing at the stove, (the burner was left on) and spilled some blood, first attack. Then from the angle of blood spatter, maybe footprints or bullet holes, casings, they can say "this one to the shoulder was the 1st stab or shot". The victim was not incapacitated here and this wound would not have been the one to do it. The amount of blood spilt in certain areas is key too. So follow the bloody trail down the hall. Is there a puddle of blood which shows the victim fell down at this point? Struggling, maybe stabbed again. Then crawls to the bedroom where the last and fatal stab occured. You know forensics can ID the fatal wound. Of course when you have over kill as in The Tate or Mac murders, they could tell where the attacks occured, and where they ended, but not much else. An attack which stayed pretty much in the same area and was started and completed without much movement from the victim, it's hard to discern in those circumstances also. And my little story could easily have been on an A&E program, in some cases it works. Again, listen carefully: IT DOES WORK NOT WITH ALL CASES, INCLUDING DARIE'S AND I NEVER SAID IT DID

 

[Dani_T]

You, Goody and I have discussed why Dana was not called and why she stormed off the Leeza show in a huff, even brought up the rumor of Darin having an affair with Dana

Hey Beesy,

Yes I know we have discussed it (although I don't think she 'stormed' off Leeza in a 'huff'. If anything she looked pretty upset and overwhelmed).

However, whenever I have discussed Dana I've always done so as speculation (and have tried to be pretty sensitive to the fact that there are a lot of rumours about her that are pure speculation). Ultimately I think it is just downright suspicious that she wasn't called to testify by the defense as she was the last adult to see both Darin and Darlie that night, could testify to Darlie's (and Darin's) state of mind, could confirm what a wonderful loving mother Darlie said she was and could also confirm that Darlie and Darin were just fine with each other that night when she left home. But they didn't call her. There has to be a reason why. Without knowing the specifics I can only speculate that it was because she either knew something they didn't want said at trial or they knew she would make a bad witness.

But then again the state didn't call her either (as a hostile witness)- why not?

 

[beesy]

Hey Beesy,

Yes I know we have discussed it (although I don't think she 'stormed' off Leeza in a 'huff'. If anything she looked pretty upset and overwhelmed).

However, whenever I have discussed Dana I've always done so as speculation (and have tried to be pretty sensitive to the fact that there are a lot of rumours about her that are pure speculation). Ultimately I think it is just downright suspicious that she wasn't called to testify by the defense as she was the last adult to see both Darin and Darlie that night, could testify to Darlie's (and Darin's) state of mind, could confirm what a wonderful loving mother Darlie said she was and could also confirm that Darlie and Darin were just fine with each other that night when she left home. But they didn't call her. There has to be a reason why. Without knowing the specifics I can only speculate that it was because she either knew something they didn't want said at trial or they knew she would make a bad witness.

I know we used speculation about Dana, that's what we all do here and were careful talking about cetain things. I have never seen that part of the Leeza show. Goody seemed to think she stormed off.

 

[beesy]

accordn2me]Beesy,

I did have a little fun at your expense - but only after you sided with Mary about the statement I made about the reason Mulder was hired. You brought it on yourself, indirectly. However, I will contritely ask for your forgiveness.

Not much of an apology there, kinda backhanded. I did not side with Mary, I simply agreed with her. How did that bring your sarcasm upon myself? It's not worth holding a grudge though so I forgive you

And thank you for your help. I didn't expect you to read the transcript to answer the question. I'm pretty sure the answer won't be found in the transcript. I do hope you, and at least one other particular person, comes to the realization that just because something is or is not in the transcript, does not mean that it did or did not happen.

I've said this several times already. I did not use any transcripts or reports for my answer. I used Chris' book, mainly because you are so anxious to get it. Thought you might like a preview.
Your little game also made me upset with Mary. I misunderstood something she said about me in one of her posts to you and bitched at her. Now I'm sure she hates me, so thanks for the big fun. Don't know when I've had so much fun!

 

[beesy]

I meant that as a compliment, meaning you know the bottom line, the basics. I was trying to stand up for you, because Accordn2me was making a joke of your comment about the chronological order of the wounds. Sorry about that...as they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

That was a compliment? It came across as I need to stay with the simple things and try not delve into such difficult topics such as reading from a moron's book. No matter the meaning, it hurt my feelings alot, especially after reading HER post.

 

[Goody]

And my point was: it's very possible that the screen was cut earlier and had nothing at all to do with the murders.

There is absolutely no evidence, not even a self serving statement from the Routiers to support your theory here. The screen was cut that night and was definitely part of the crime. The only question is who cut it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

That was a compliment? It came across as I need to stay with the simple things and try not delve into such difficult topics such as reading from a moron's book. No matter the meaning, it hurt my feelings alot, especially after reading HER post.

Come on guys - give me a break. I don't want to have to start editing/deleting.

 

[Goody]

Not me.

I do think Dana not testifying was mighty odd though and can only suspect the reason the defense did not put her on the stand was because she would incriminate Darlie. Don't know why the State didn't call her.

Not me either, Dani. I have never even considered that the cut screen was not a part of the crime.

I agree with you that Dani should have testified. I can see why the state didn't call her though. She would not tell them what she knew so they would want to cross-examine her, not question her on direct. They can get a lot more challenging on cross. On direct they basically have to use kid gloves and wouldn't be able to bring anything out that she didn't want to give.

I can also see why the defense didn't call her. They sure wouldn't have wanted the state to cross examine her. Talk about loose cannons! LOL!

Poor Dana. You just have to feel sorry for her. I think this crime has been absolutely devastating for her. I just wish she would tell us what she knows, but I guess she will never be able to bring herself to do that. What a horrible position to be in.