Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

[gngr~snap]

:woohoo:


As a child, these sticky necklaces were arourd MY neck & wrists.

Me too! but I didn't wear them at 22. Maybe they didn't have "drugs" on them but IMO they were "restrung" the candy necklaces. were and still are on a thin strip of elastic string. Those necklaces are MUCH thicker. Simply to assure they DO NOT break!.
MOO ~ Wouldn't want to lose your "x" by accident…and yes that is a drug trend. or was at the time.

 

[BritsKate]

In my heart of hearts I honestly believe Caylee died as a result of narcissistic rage.

I think many here have had first hand experience with a disordered personality. Perhaps my living with someone dx'd comorbid APD/NPD causes me to have empathy towards GA/CA.

To be fair by the point ICA was exhibiting full flared characteristics associated with PD she was an adult and CA/GA could not have forced her into treatment. Cluster B PD's are notoriously difficult to treat and therapy remains largely ineffective anyway.

While I believe this family is steeped in several other MH issues I think it important to remember how insane living with someone who is disordered can be. You, because you love them, are desperate to believe them. You cannot comprehend someone who has no conscience, essentially no soul, because you are not wired the same.

Disordered people have the power to convince you the world is flat. They are skilled manipulators - dangerously deceptive predators who study their prey. They learn your weaknesses and play off of them. They are psychological abusers - a walking, talking, living nightmare. At some point you seriously wonder whether there is something wrong with you - after all, they appear to be this wonderful, loving, amazing person and yet you know there is something not quite right. Should you mention this feeling you will be in for a barrage of gaslighting.

I cannot say GA/CA should have, could have, because it took me more than a decade to be capable of walking away from my disordered ex. What I can say, with great confidence, is that GA/CA will always tell themselves they should have, could have... they will be forced to live with the hell ICA created, thrust upon them, for the rest of their lives. They will forever wonder what they could have done differently and they will always struggle with forgiving themselves.

JMHO

 

[chicklet]

I've been studying Psychology unofficially for over 25 years and am in my 4th year studying to become a Clinical Therapist. I have read several people mention Sociopath and Antisocial Personality Disorder as if they are two different things. A sociopath is essentially someone diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder. You see this more often in males. I think her behavior fits more with Borderline Personality Disorder. People who develop BPD are usually survivors of significant trauma, often sexual. I'd be very curious to find out if she has any history of cutting herself.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I agree Cindy was very controlling, but I don't know if this applied to Casey. Seems a little like they were all walking on eggshells when it came to Casey.

You cannot make a person get mental health care unless they agree to it or you can show they are a danger to themselves or others. Believe me, I know from first hand experience that if someone refuses help or counseling it's very hard to force it upon them. Casey had alot of issues, but I do not believe Cindy could have convinced anyone legally that she was an unfit mother. Being a pathological liar is not enough to get your child taken away from you. I think Casey used Caylee to keep her parents in line. If Casey up and moved out with Caylee and refused to let them see Caylee, there wouldn't be alot Cindy could do about it.

I agree. I'm not sure what CA could have done. Hindsight is 20/20 and a lot of things make sense and seem more obvious now than what they may have at the time. I think CA and GA just tried to manage their expectations, stay out of ICA's way for the most part.

 

[Knot4u2no]

I’m really surprised that the defense team has not suggested REACTION FORMATION to explain Casey’s “fun loving lifestyle” after Caylee’s death, but maybe I just missed it. I don’t buy reaction formation as a defense mechanism for Casey related to Caylee, but it could provide a bit of psycho-rationale for Casey’s denial lifestyle after Caylee’s death.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation[/ame]


Russell

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Here's what I'm hoping the state can get in, whether through an FBI profiler (but there isn't one on the witness lists, is there?) or by an expert:

Statistically, mothers who commit filicide:

1) often drown their children. In fact, it's the most common method employed by filicidal mothers, followed by suffocation. (neither of which causes skeletal trauma)

2) are more likely to be young mothers under the age of 25

3) are more likely to be unemployed

4) are more likely to be undereducated, no college, or possibly didn't finish high school.

5) are more likely to kill younger children (under age 5)

6) are more likely to bury/dispose of their children in a location close to their home

7) are more likely to place the deceased in a "womb-like" environment.


This from statistical research. What I think we can all agree on, even though I don't have research to support it is that parents whose children die in household accidents:

1) Call 911
2) Express emotions associated with grief: anger, sadness, guilt, depression, etc.
3) Do not statistically put their children in trash bags and throw them away, but bury or cremate them in the proper, legal fashion.
4) Do not enter hot body contests within days of the death of their child.

This despite the fact that an accident can happen to anyone and so likely some of these parents who lost children to accidents were also young, or unemployed, or survivors of abuse, etc.

The prosecution needs to show the jury if at all possible that while this case seems bizarre if you listen to the JB theory, it's actually textbook for mothers who kill.

 

[Beatrice]

ICA: Jealousy of Caylee, revenge against Cindy...
"I'll get you before you get me."

 

[Betty Boop]

I believe that George and Cindy have experienced some healing that would naturally result from facing reality, grieving, searching for the truth. As they testify, I see Casey's demeanor getting very dark and scary. The changes in George and Cindy have upset the old family system (the one where Casey's lies were believed and CA/GA tried not to pizz her off for the baby's sake).

Where will Casey direct all her rage now? :banghead: :maddening:

 

[Chiquita71]

In my heart of hearts I honestly believe Caylee died as a result of narcissistic rage.

I think many here have had first hand experience with a disordered personality. Perhaps my living with someone dx'd comorbid APD/NPD causes me to have empathy towards GA/CA.

To be fair by the point ICA was exhibiting full flared characteristics associated with PD she was an adult and CA/GA could not have forced her into treatment. Cluster B PD's are notoriously difficult to treat and therapy remains largely ineffective anyway.

While I believe this family is steeped in several other MH issues I think it important to remember how insane living with someone who is disordered can be. You, because you love them, are desperate to believe them. You cannot comprehend someone who has no conscience, essentially no soul, because you are not wired the same.

Disordered people have the power to convince you the world is flat. They are skilled manipulators - dangerously deceptive predators who study their prey. They learn your weaknesses and play off of them. They are psychological abusers - a walking, talking, living nightmare. At some point you seriously wonder whether there is something wrong with you - after all, they appear to be this wonderful, loving, amazing person and yet you know there is something not quite right. Should you mention this feeling you will be in for a barrage of gaslighting.

I cannot say GA/CA should have, could have, because it took me more than a decade to be capable of walking away from my disordered ex. What I can say, with great confidence, is that GA/CA will always tell themselves they should have, could have... they will be forced to live with the hell ICA created, thrust upon them, for the rest of their lives. They will forever wonder what they could have done differently and they will always struggle with forgiving themselves.

JMHO

:wave: BritsKate

:tyou: for your post. Thank you for sharing. This is the realization I have come to, I know it has not been easy for me to wrap my mind around a person like this existing. :no:

:twocents:

 

[Padua]

I've been studying Psychology unofficially for over 25 years and am in my 4th year studying to become a Clinical Therapist. I have read several people mention Sociopath and Antisocial Personality Disorder as if they are two different things. A sociopath is essentially someone diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder. You see this more often in males. I think her behavior fits more with Borderline Personality Disorder. People who develop BPD are usually survivors of significant trauma, often sexual. I'd be very curious to find out if she has any history of cutting herself.

The symptom of self-mutilation is not limited to cutting. It expands to tattos and piercings. Individuals with BPD will often get tattos or piercings when they are upset because it causes the same pain as cutting but doesn't leave the scars.

 

[Quiche]

Sociopath/Antisocial Personality Disorder seems like a pretty darn good fit, imo.

World Health Organization

The World Health Organization's ICD-10 defines a conceptually similar disorder to antisocial personality disorder called (F60.2) Dissocial personality disorder.[8]

It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:


Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.

Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.

Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.

Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.

Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.

Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.

Persistent irritability.


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath"]Antisocial personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Mergefrom.svg" class="image"><img alt="Mergefrom.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Mergefrom.svg/50px-Mergefrom.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/0/0f/Mergefrom.svg/50px-Mergefrom.svg.png[/ame]

Of you ask me, she shows strong signs of all of these criterion, pretty scary. mo

 

[countzero]

CA is as much a narcisstic as ICA is. The big difference is this; CA is a functioning one. She has learned and has the ability to conform to society standards within reason. She had a college degree. She had steadily maintained employment until July 08. She has financial issues due to wanting to keep up with the Jones. Lots of other people do this as well, but aren't narcisstic. She has control and boundary issues to this date. She is passive/aggressive to the point of manipulating the others until she wears wears them down to submission. She does know right from wrong but will insist she is right.

It was obvious from reading Ricks emails that she has been this way for at least 35 or more years. The neighbors have similar opinions. More though are her actions towards others.

As far as I can gather from her testimonies to date, she has sided with the SAO for three reasons. She knows Caylee is dead ONLY due to the SAO informing her of ICAs admission of it, and she knows if she does not cooperate fully, she could possible face heavy legal issues. I totally expect her to go back to her old ways and play a martyr role which is what she wants.

As for her loving Caylee unconditionally. No way, narcisstics do not love others. Having ICA as a daughter, I believe she saw Caylee as a do over, a chance to raise another child differently. CA even today referred to Caylee as our child. She described Caylee's routines as a birth mother would. She still cannot separate the two from her role as a grandparent. That residence was full of anger and fights and she subjected Caylee to it every day. It was more important for her to raise Caylee then to allow ICA to grow up as an individual, even though I don't believe that could have happened. CA was in a hard place. To expose ICA to even attempt to get custody, her glass house would be exposed. She knew ICA hated her or she would have told ICA to go have fun and leave Caylee there if they were BFFs as she has claimed in the past.

The Anthonys have lots of secrets they are ashamed of because they don't want to be exposed as being dysfunctional. Sexual abuse isn't one of them. What CA fails to realize is that her life wasn't too much different than others out in the world. CAs narcissistic behaviors to constantly need to appear to be perfect let her ruin what could have been good.

CAs past conduct of the almost three years, didn't start then and it won't stop after the trial. Unless she admits and seeks professional help, she won't change.

And George, I'll save him for another post. My fingers are tired.

 

[Padua]

MO. KC was very good at triangulation and played CA against GA. Now that KC is removed from her environment she is no longer successful in triangulation and CA and GA are more cohesive. I'm actually glad she chose not to have contact with her mother or father for a long time. She has not been able to play her parents against each other.

Triangulation is most commonly used to express a situation in which one family member will not communicate directly with another family member, but will communicate with a third family member, which can lead to the third family member becoming part of the triangle. The concept originated in the study of dysfunctional family systems, but can describe behaviors in other systems as well, including work.

Triangulation can also be used as a label for a form of "splitting" in which one person plays the third family member against one that he or she is upset about. This is playing the two people against each other, but usually the person doing the splitting, will also engage in character assassination, only with both parties.

 

[xin]

MO. KC was very good at triangulation and played CA against GA. Now that KC is removed from her environment she is no longer successful in triangulation and CA and GA are more cohesive. I'm actually glad she chose not to have contact with her mother or father for a long time. She has not been able to play her parents against each other.

Triangulation is most commonly used to express a situation in which one family member will not communicate directly with another family member, but will communicate with a third family member, which can lead to the third family member becoming part of the triangle. The concept originated in the study of dysfunctional family systems, but can describe behaviors in other systems as well, including work.

Triangulation can also be used as a label for a form of "splitting" in which one person plays the third family member against one that he or she is upset about. This is playing the two people against each other, but usually the person doing the splitting, will also engage in character assassination, only with both parties.

I have a narcis. mother who triangulates with dad and other sibs. Crazy-making but I got out with my life. My family appeared to be perfect. I work on co-dependency and avoidance of nuts! CA makes me itchy all over.

 

[strawberry]

The symptom of self-mutilation is not limited to cutting. It expands to tattos and piercings. Individuals with BPD will often get tattos or piercings when they are upset because it causes the same pain as cutting but doesn't leave the scars.

I have a niece who used to self-injure. She also would pluck her head hair as it appears ICA does to her brows.

I still don't believe GA abused her though.

 

[Padua]

I have a niece who used to self-injure. She also would pluck her head hair as it appears ICA does to her brows.

I still don't believe GA abused her though.

I don't think ga abused her either. Off topic but picking out hairs actually has it's own name: trichotillomania.

 

[SuziQ]

I've been wondering about how the A's attorney was finally able to get across to the A's that ICA is a sick person who was going to throw them on the bus to save herself. Others have tried and failed miserably. I think the key this time was their current attorney was able to get them to see that ICA's own Psychiatrists say she is a sick individual. And that these Psychiatrists have no agenda, and if they did it would have been in ICA's favor. And yet they still found her to be a sick person.

 

[littlemisslegal]

Thursday, July 03, 2008 Current mood: http://x.myspace.com/images/blog/moods/iBrads/sad.gif distraught

She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don&#8217;t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother&#8217;s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?



THIS WAS CINDYS MYSPACE - SHE WAS REALLY HURTING

 

[chicklet]

The symptom of self-mutilation is not limited to cutting. It expands to tattos and piercings. Individuals with BPD will often get tattos or piercings when they are upset because it causes the same pain as cutting but doesn't leave the scars.

Yes, I know. Cutting is just one of the most common forms of self-mutilation I've seen. The shopping sprees certainly fit the bill as well as the incessant lying and manipulation and splitting. It's also not uncommon to see a lot of false accusations, although it is VERY common for there to be a history of trauma stemming from sexual abuse.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I've been studying Psychology unofficially for over 25 years and am in my 4th year studying to become a Clinical Therapist. I have read several people mention Sociopath and Antisocial Personality Disorder as if they are two different things. A sociopath is essentially someone diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder. You see this more often in males. I think her behavior fits more with Borderline Personality Disorder. People who develop BPD are usually survivors of significant trauma, often sexual. I'd be very curious to find out if she has any history of cutting herself.

ITA about the borderline personality- people need to realize that they too have callous disregard for others, lie, steal, manipulate, pit "loved ones" against one another, impulsiveness, self destructive & self defeating behaviors, feelings of emptiness, and severe anger control issues. They let their feelings become their facts and can dissociate on a dime. They also falsely accuse.