Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

[Kat]

Hmmm ..... I had not thought to connect the dead pets with Casey. Feels like a reach at this point, but ..... hmmm.

I had asked the other day and I don't think anyone saw my question,


How many pets died?

Thanks!

 

[gngr~snap]

I had asked the other day and I don't think anyone saw my question,


How many pets died?

Thanks!

none. they all commited suicide.

5?

 

[txsvicki]

Hi everybody, long time lurker. I would pay to read Jesse Grund's book. He was intimately involved with her for almost 2 years (after she was pregnant, during the pregnancy and after Caylee was born) and then was the male "friend" that ICA ran to when she was breaking up with Ricky and starting to date Tony. I had forgotten he was fired from the sheriffs because he didn't disclose that he was a friend and an ex-fiance of the suspect.

I listened to the first part of his police interview and you can really hear his cooperation with the police. I'm not sure if he had been fired by the time he was interviewed, but he had a designated route just before Caylee went missing. I'm sure he had a lot of 'ah-ha' moments when he was doing his time line for the police.

Listen to the second part and he tells a chilling story about CA berating ICA in front of him and he has to step-up to CA and tell her she can not speak to ICA like she did in front of him. CA was a psycho to ICA at least at that time. But, surely, that wasn't the beginning. JMO.

(personal note) One of my dad's girlfriends had a moment like this. It was Christmas Eve back in the 80's, and I was 12 or 13. Her and her son (he was about 16) had a screaming argument in front of me, my dad and her other son. Right in the middle of the yelling match, they were face to face at the time, she points to me sitting on a chair and yells, verryy sarcastically, "look you are ruining his Christmas." The room fell silent and tried to dig and bury myself into the chair. But, then they just started yelling again and they forgot about me. It ended up that she slapped him and then he slapped her then my dad stepped in and it was over. Looking back there were other strange things she would do and say.

He stated that CA threw ICA "under the bus" that day. No shortage of the female Anthony's throwing somebody under the bus.

Jesse arguing with and disrespecting Cindy, a future mother in law, in her own home then running her down on TV is why I've never thought well of him at all. I'd be willing to bet that Casey was egging on the dislike by telling him lies about Cindy and vice versa, plus Cindy was probably upset about some theft or lie about school/work/money issues. I've always wondered if he was still believing her BS and now wonder if maybe that's why he wasn't much of a witness during the trial. He did get up there and sound (to me, at least) like he might possibly still be believing the story about Lee by the way he said "he knew right then that he wanted nothing to do with him" and that he had believed everything Casey ever said to him.

 

[aeneas1]

Any ideas why Casey has such hatred for her dad? I was reading the "lip reading" thread and it got me wondering this. I don't believe the sexual abuse story. Do you think it's just because he wouldn't lie for her? Or because he tried to catch her lies for a year before Caylee disappeared? (per his suicide note) There must be a big reason for such hatred towards her father.

Any thoughts anyone?

i really don't think casey ever really hated or loved her dad - i think she simply considered him an asset or liability, depending on her needs at the moment. in fact i think this is how she felt about everyone in her life. a telling example of this is when, in a jail hose chat, casey told cindy that she chose george to speak with in a future one-on-one chat, that she could only pick one person, and she chose george. george was overwhelmed by casey's decision, moved even, and thanked casey profusely for thinking that highly of him. of course casey could care less about speaking to george one-on-one. casey picked george because a) she knew it would hurt her mother and b) because she knew she could give george the run-around instead of having to answer the tough and relentless questions cindy was sure to ask.

the extent of casey's affection began and ended with what someone could do for her: was the person an asset or a liability. her many boyfriends are another example - did she really "love" any of these guys? of course not. they simply completed the image she wanted to project, especially tony. they were an asset, until they outlived their usefulness or dumped her. and, of course, caylee was a liability that would never go away, as far as casey was concerned.

 

[marlap]

i really don't think casey ever really hated or loved her dad - i think she simply considered him an asset or liability, depending on her needs at the moment. in fact i think this is how she felt about everyone in her life. a telling example of this is when, in a jail hose chat, casey told cindy that she chose george to speak with in a future one-on-one chat, that she could only pick one person, and she chose george. george was overwhelmed by casey's decision, moved even, and thanked casey profusely for thinking that highly of him. of course casey could care less about speaking to george one-on-one. casey picked george because a) she knew it would hurt her mother and b) because she knew she could give george the run-around instead of having to answer the tough and relentless questions cindy was sure to ask.

the extent of casey's affection began and ended with what someone could do for her: was the person an asset or a liability. her many boyfriends are another example - did she really "love" any of these guys? of course not. they simply completed the image she wanted to project, especially tony. they were an asset, until they outlived their usefulness or dumped her. and, of course, caylee was a liability that would never go away, as far as casey was concerned.

I completely agree! In addition, I think ICA told various boyfriends fictions about her parents fighting, LA or GA molesting her, etc., to manipulate them into feeling uncomfortable to ask her to go home.

Take TL, for example...I'm sure TL really was enamored of ICA...but within two weeks of first sleeping together, ICA has in effect moved in and is staying there every single night.

This is a young guys' (roommate and buddies staying there) small apartment.
I would think no matter how enamored TL was with ICA, under normal circumstances, I can't see he'd be okay with her basically "moving in" after a couple of weeks of hanging out with her.

 

[aeneas1]

Jesse arguing with and disrespecting Cindy, a future mother in law, in her own home then running her down on TV is why I've never thought well of him at all. I'd be willing to bet that Casey was egging on the dislike by telling him lies about Cindy and vice versa, plus Cindy was probably upset about some theft or lie about school/work/money issues. I've always wondered if he was still believing her BS and now wonder if maybe that's why he wasn't much of a witness during the trial. He did get up there and sound (to me, at least) like he might possibly still be believing the story about Lee by the way he said "he knew right then that he wanted nothing to do with him" and that he had believed everything Casey ever said to him.

i must have missed something because i never got that impression of grund at all, in fact my impression of the kid was just the opposite. first, the police interviews he gave struck me as straightforward, respectful of everyone, and honest. and the police interviews his dad gave were extremely insightful in terms of the anthony family dynamics. also, imo he never "ran cindy down" on tv - i thought he was very respectful of the anthony family, especially considering it became common knowledge that they (or at least cindy and casey) were trying to pin the crime on him...

whatever the case, i really don't know what he could offer in terms of a book - he was only with casey a short while and it seems that he pretty much told the cops everything he knew. if there is a pay day for jesse in this thing, i would think it would come in the form of a defamation lawsuit against the anthony's - and if the anthony's do start cashing in on this case, i don't think jesse will have any trouble finding representation.

btw, didn't george tell jesse to stay away from casey when they all had to take her to the hospital, for his own sake, because she was damaged goods, and hhe (george) didn't want to see a decent kid like jesse go down with the ship? i believe jesse mentioned this in a police interview and george later confirmed...

 

[~n/t~]

I think George was onto her way before she murdered Caylee. In his suicide note, he says that he was told <paraphrasing> not to be so negative. I believe he may have confronted Casey a few times regarding her job (the one she didn't have) and "Zanny" and he was probably told to stay out of it.

Casey being the sociopath that she is used Caylee to manipulate, connive, lie to get her way with her parents. When the car was picked up at Ascot, George knew. Cindy knew. Lee knew.

Tim Miller on HLN confirmed that when he was there he was told by Baez not to talk to Casey. George told him the answer is in that bedroom (Casey's). George confronted Casey and told her to tell Tim where Caylee was. Tim knew immediately that a cover up had ensued and got out of dodge as fast as he could. If anyone knows the Anthonys it is Tim Miller.

 

[rose222]

I feel bad for the before July 17th 2008 Cindy. She worked very hard to take care of her family, she especially took care of Caylee. I felt so bad when she described how she'd prepare food and wait for Casey's friends to show up only to be given some excuse or another.

The Cindy after July 17th is another story. The Cindy who lied, threw innocent people under the bus etc...

They were not perfect parents. No such thing exist. Casey only knows how to use and throw.

 

[justplainmetal]

Any ideas why Casey has such hatred for her dad? I was reading the "lip reading" thread and it got me wondering this. I don't believe the sexual abuse story. Do you think it's just because he wouldn't lie for her? Or because he tried to catch her lies for a year before Caylee disappeared? (per his suicide note) There must be a big reason for such hatred towards her father.

Any thoughts anyone?

IMO, it is because it was his testimony to the Grand Jury that got her indicted.

 

[rose222]

IMO, it is because it was his testimony to the Grand Jury that got her indicted.

But it was her mother who called 911. If not for Cindy doing that Casey might have gotten away...that's what she'd like to think anyway.

I think Casey picks on people who are somewhat submissive (George) and of course she'll throw men under the bus for sexual abuse. Watch out Baez.

 

[Saffie]

Hmmm ..... I had not thought to connect the dead pets with Casey. Feels like a reach at this point, but ..... hmmm.

I think it is reaching too.

I had asked the other day and I don't think anyone saw my question,


How many pets died?

Thanks!

I just looked back at CA's testimony. Not really that many over a period of 20+ years, and only the cocker spaniel deaths are even remotely suspicious.

1. Mandy (dog) died before ICA's birth
2. Beau (dog) died at vet 1990. ICA at burial in yard
3. Ginger (cocker spaniel mom). Fall 2003
4. Cinnamon (cocker spaniel pup) 6 months later
5. Penny (cat) 2009. ICA in jail.
6&7 are the Yorkies. One apparently was a bit lethargic around March 2008, but we don't know whether either has died.

 

[crimesnooper]

Both of those posts were so good I had to quote both.

I've been thinking about KC and her PD's. I can't even guess what she might be diagnosed with but from just what very little I do know I say she falls somewhere on the cluster b diagnosis.

OLG, do you think once she has had some time and distance from her enmeshed relationship with Cindy (and gets some emotional maturity) that she might be able to come to terms with her skewed way of percieving things?

This is what I desperately hope for one of my family members.

I hope that KC can access psychiatric care if she wants in prison.

I don't think ICA would benefit from treatment and I do not think maturing will do much. She might ask for treatment and try and manipluate the therapist. But IMO, her issues are too deep and while some BPD might be able to make progress, sociopaths don't.

 

[Padua]

I don't think ICA would benefit from treatment and I do not think maturing will do much. She might ask for treatment and try and manipluate the therapist. But IMO, her issues are too deep and while some BPD might be able to make progress, sociopaths don't.

Agreed she is in no way a good candidate for therapy/treatment.

She is who she is. I feel sorry for people who have mental illness (for example Jared Loughtner) but I do not feel sorry for people that live outside the parameters of our society.

I do not think she has a mental illness.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Here's a good description of how we can get stuck in patterns that cause us to be angry and advice on how to recognize and deal with these patterns.

http://www.4therapy.com/life-topics...-feelings-guilt/effectively-coping-anger-2632

One thing stressed in the article is that in order to heal anger, it is usually necessary to remove oneself from the peeps you are plugged into that fuel
your angry feelings (if and when you can identify them).

Most of us would agree that the A's all have anger issues.

 

[Saffron]

The other night Nancy Grace had on Dr. William Weitz, clinical psychologist, who examined Casey for the defense back in 2009. After an extensive evaluation, he concluded that Casey does not have a psychotic/thought disorder, mood disorder or a personality disorder that met the formal criteria. He dismissed the television pundits who have called her a sociopath or psychopath. (Posters on another thread were thinking that Baez must have given this guy permission to report his findings, otherwise he would have breached confidentiality. That sounds about right.)

I'm kind of glad he spoke publicly. Sometimes psychiatric labels seem to minimize a person's responsibility for their choices and their behavior. It seems to me that Casey can be described as extremely self-centered, lacking in moral character, and with a strong penchant toward evil behavior. And these are all deliberate ways of being. A shame she won't be in prison.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Both of those posts were so good I had to quote both.

I've been thinking about KC and her PD's. I can't even guess what she might be diagnosed with but from just what very little I do know I say she falls somewhere on the cluster b diagnosis.

OLG, do you think once she has had some time and distance from her enmeshed relationship with Cindy (and gets some emotional maturity) that she might be able to come to terms with her skewed way of percieving things?

This is what I desperately hope for one of my family members.

I hope that KC can access psychiatric care if she wants in prison.

Bold is mine-

Kat.. I don't know, I really don't know.. but I think she should be given the opportunity. It's a sad world when people who have never had their brain effected by mental illness and/or personality disorders and therefore have no clue what really causes the underlying behaviors are deciding that people are untreatable. I remember my high school principle telling me I was gonna end up in one of two places, prison or dead. Yet here I am typing to ya'll. I think if she can admit she's got issues and wants to change, with the right people working with her, staying away from her "family" and being willing to work hard every day for the rest of her life to stay well- she could have a chance. People can change- even people who have done bad things. But remember, I don't think she is a Psychopath/Sociopath.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think it is reaching too.


I just looked back at CA's testimony. Not really that many over a period of 20+ years, and only the cocker spaniel deaths are even remotely suspicious.

1. Mandy (dog) died before ICA's birth
2. Beau (dog) died at vet 1990. ICA at burial in yard
3. Ginger (cocker spaniel mom). Fall 2003
4. Cinnamon (cocker spaniel pup) 6 months later
5. Penny (cat) 2009. ICA in jail.
6&7 are the Yorkies. One apparently was a bit lethargic around March 2008, but we don't know whether either has died.

Doesn't sound like a lot of animals to me either.

 

[Kat]

Bold is mine-

Kat.. I don't know, I really don't know.. but I think she should be given the opportunity. It's a sad world when people who have never had their brain effected by mental illness and/or personality disorders and therefore have no clue what really causes the underlying behaviors are deciding that people are untreatable. I remember my high school principle telling me I was gonna end up in one of two places, prison or dead. Yet here I am typing to ya'll. I think if she can admit she's got issues and wants to change, with the right people working with her, staying away from her "family" and being willing to work hard every day for the rest of her life to stay well- she could have a chance. People can change- even people who have done bad things. But remember, I don't think she is a Psychopath/Sociopath.

I'm not sure that she is either. I would have to see a diagnosis for sure OLG. At this point, I just say that she sure does act personality disordered and she sure does act like she could be diagnosed with one or more cluster B's.

The reason I say that is because those diagnosis on the cluster B share so many traits/symptoms.

Say for example my own loved family member who does in fact have a diagnosis and was diagnosed by more than one doctor with a PD. She recently related to me that she was also diagnosed with narcissitic traits,

If we look at any number of her behaviors (my family member not KC) and we looked at those behaviors from afar we could come away with she acts like a narcissist or she acts like she has no conscious at times like a sociopath. But in the end those are just traits that are shared by those group of PD's and IMHO it takes a Dr. to sit down and test and diagnose a PD or PD's that are comorbid.

IMHO there is no telling what KC's diagnosis would be because we aren't privy to most of her information and can only speculate based on what we have seen and heard about so far. JMHO

 

[Kat]

And OLG thank you for answering in such a gentle way. You know that I am broken hearted and I thank you for your kindness my friend.

 

[OneLostGrl]

And OLG thank you for answering in such a gentle way. You know that I am broken hearted and I thank you for your kindness my friend.

:hug: