Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[OneLostGrl]

Here's the link-
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/mind-psychopath-11492876
I just watched the first segment-OMG!! How frightening!!

Boy, that Tommy Lynn Sells is one interesting dude.

 

[kaRN]

Enabling is a co-dependent behavior. The enabler also has something to gain. As long as Cindy enabled, KC would not grow emotionally, psychologically..therefore obtaining independence (self reliance) and maturity. She would remain in the co-dependent relationship where she needed Cindy. End result being, of course, that KC was not 'able' to take Caylee away from Cindy. If KC became defiant and posed a threat to Cindy's security with Caylee, I am guessing this is where the threat of getting legal guardianship of Caylee came into play, as KC was a disabled mother (thanks to a lifetime with Cindy). It was a real tug-of-war. Cindy needed Caylee in her home, so she allowed and encouraged (consciously and subconsciously) KC's inability to become self-reliant as a young mother. Cindy created a double-edged sword for for the damaged KC, resulting in what must have seemed to be a no way out situation..can't stay but can't leave, so she killed Caylee to break free from Cindy's clutches in the sick co-dependent relationship. Caylee had become an object in this war. The power struggle over Caylee had become so bitter, leaving Caylee behind with Cindy and fleeing for freedom was not an option.. KC knew she could not take care of Caylee on her own, but she would not let Cindy 'win'.

IMO you have amazing insight!!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I've been rereading KC's texts to AH. KC is one piece of work that's for sure. She has absolutely no problem lying through her teeth to her supposedly good friend. I'm also wondering why AH didn't start catching on to her - I mean there are only so many times a friend can back out on me (in a row) where I'd be thinking 'what's the point?' It's inconvenient when you're counting on someone and they ALWAYS back out. It's called keeping a commitment.

I was looking for clues as to KC's feelings about CA, these are KC's comments to AH ~

May 13, 2008 - ...i'm on vacation in a couple of days. My mum is taking the kid for the w/end for part of her vacation

May 19, 6:14pm - I'll be in a place by then. You can stay with me. I'm looking at a place tomorrow with my mum that I might be signing on.

8:38pm - Haha. She already knows that your crazy;-) i'm calling my mum when I get out. I'll text you with the exact time. It's off conway and michigan.

May 21, 6:03pm - ha my mum just told me the same thing on the phone.

May 22, 8:37am - good luck at your interview. Good luck hug from me and the little one.

May 23, 8:41am - ...I gave Caylee my cold.

8:46am - I gave her some Amy love.

11:51am - this is the first time she's gotten sick.

poor Amy keeps asking for assurance about looking at and/or moving into a house together. KC says 'trust me' I've been to this house 4 times already.

4:36pm - text me when you get out. I'll talk to my momma. I think I need it.

7:48pm - I'm going to stay home. Raincheck for tomorrow night? I already cleared it with my Madre.

May 28, 3:52pm - That's perfect. If anything once we move my stuff into my parents room we can use my room for storage and the garage too. There will be plenty of room.

June 3, 5:06pm - I'm still in town. Taking my mum out to dinner.

June 9, - KC tells AH she's staying with the boys

3:36pm - Caylee just pooped in her potty for the first time!

3:43pm - Sorry. Proud momma moment.

June 10 - 11th, 12:18AM - ...stupid drama

June 13 - hospital with GA, KC's glad he's okay as he almost had a stroke

June 27 - dead animal plastered to her car she's sure.

July 1, 1:19pm - Sorry was talking to my crazy mother.

July 4 - AH tells KC about her missing money.

July 6 - KC asks AH if they found JP's keys

July 7 - my mum says it hasn't. I'm going to call again later. regarding AH's camera

---------------------------

The reason I typed the above exchanges out is because I was trying to detect a bitter tone coming across from KC when referencing her mom. There really isn't one until July 1, when she refers to CA as 'crazy'. Also I never sense KC is overly burdened by Caylee in these particular exchanges.

What stands out is how easily KC lies and continues to do so to her 'friend' Amy. And for what purpose I ask? Why would she continue to lead Amy on when she knows darn well she doesn't have and is not going to have a place for them to move too? It's like KC is playing a continual game with AH, not caring one bit how her false promises will affect AH.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Ohh, I missed that one! I'll have to see if they have it on-line yet! You ever see I, Psychopath?

ETA link http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/

This was very interesting. I couldn't access it through the link for some reason so I went there direct.

Thanks for showing us this source - alot of interesting stuff there.

It's interesting that this Sam guy scores very high as a Psychopath but they point out that he has two unusual traits which are self-awareness and a ten year marriage (long term relationships are uncommon in Psychopaths).

He claims to be indifferent - just doesn't care yet he really got angry when Dr. Board called him out on his fudged credentials. He was indignant when she questioned his PhD.

Also Scientists found he could not regulate his emotional responses when they examined (by hooking him up to a machine - MRI?) the Insula (part of the brain that registers a person's emotional changes). Sam flatlined.

Although Sam was capable of being charming it did not take him long before he was berating the filmmaker, calling him an idiot and being verbally abusive to him but was aware when the camera was on so he held back then. Sam also was very bossy. You wouldn't want to work for this guy. You'd probably think he was a complete a-hole, just mean. So I guess he didn't hide behind charm. I guess charm is used just to suck the vulnerable into his web.

 

[logicalgirl]

That is the film Dr. Robert (Bob) Hare was the Scientific Consultant on.
It is interesting that the Director, Walker, quit before the end of the filming rather than as he put it, spend another day around the psychopath. Just put Dr. Robert Hare into your browser, it will pull up a site where this film is listed - it links you over to Magic Reels, who handled the filming and distribution of the film.

 

[affinity]

This was very interesting. I couldn't access it through the link for some reason so I went there direct.

Thanks for showing us this source - alot of interesting stuff there.

It's interesting that this Sam guy scores very high as a Psychopath but they point out that he has two unusual traits which are self-awareness and a ten year marriage (long term relationships are uncommon in Psychopaths).

He claims to be indifferent - just doesn't care yet he really got angry when Dr. Board called him out on his fudged credentials. He was indignant when she questioned his PhD.

Also Scientists found he could not regulate his emotional responses when they examined (by hooking him up to a machine - MRI?) the Insula (part of the brain that registers a person's emotional changes). Sam flatlined.

Although Sam was capable of being charming it did not take him long before he was berating the filmmaker, calling him an idiot and being verbally abusive to him but was aware when the camera was on so he held back then. Sam also was very bossy. You wouldn't want to work for this guy. You'd probably think he was a complete a-hole, just mean. So I guess he didn't hide behind charm. I guess charm is used just to suck the vulnerable into his web.

That film is worth watching ...except, I had to wonder why the filmmaker chose Klezmer music throughout ---(?) I mean, so we realize the subject is Jewish--but uh..the point of that music was??...(it seemed weirdly specific)

Anyway, here is another strange thing--the subject (Sam) is a GUM CHEWER. LOL. Now there's a study for you! How many psychopaths are gum chewers?

(Seriously, maybe there is something to this! I remember when I was a kid it was all the "bad kids" who chewed gum in class!) LOL.

Thanks for the link to the documentary. It was really interesting.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

As to the above, I didn't connect or realize what the music was/is - I was focused on the aspects of how they tried to measure the subject and his behavior. He's what he is I guess.

Speaking of films, I watched Natural Born Killers. It was on Indie channel. I did a search here and the film is mentioned in a locked thread from 2008 - a general thread.

Supposedly KC wrote somewhere (MySpace?) that it's her favorite movie. What an extremely weird movie. Juilette Lewis stars as Mallory in the movie.:waitasec: There are scenes in the movie where they flashback to Mickey and Mallory's abuse as children as if suggesting that is why they are such brutal f-ups. The movie suggests sexual abuse.

The movie takes off when they kill Mallory's parents and seem happy about it. They leave the brother behind alive. They don't value life and go around killing people in the most brutal fashion. The film makes a statement that the media thrives on this kind of violence and a huge killing spree takes place that is aired real time on national TV. The media man (Robert Downey Jr.) becomes as crazed as Mickey (played by Woody Harrelson) and Mallory. Mickey and Mallory become famous and are propelled to celebrity status. Snakes are featured frequently in the movie - big venomous snakes.

If you were to group famous actesses and type cast normal people under the group they most belong, KC would go in the JL pile - weird.

Freaked me out.

 

[kellymay77]

Hello sleuthers I came across a video titled ~ Mothers who murder their children. It's so sad A lot of the mothers in this video remind me of Casey and why she killed Caylee. Take a peek it's sad but interesting!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmBlYhjdRyg&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmBlYhjdRyg&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

The young lady, Tiffany, who lost her husband recently in what she says was an "attack" while in Mexico. I have seen this young lady in several interviews. I have found her lack of tears, or emotional expression regarding her husband disturbing.

I find her behavior to be much like that of Casey Anthony. I do not see what I call "real tears" ever fall from her eyes. Just as with Casey, there are people who defend the way they behave and say, "everyone reacts to tragedy differently." There have been WSers who have used their own examples of what happened to them to say they were very non emotional after.

I remember reading "The Stone Boy" a short story we read in school. It was about young brothers(children), and the one boy shoots and kills his brother but it was a accident. The brother's gun gets caught in barbed wire and goes off, shooting his brother who is ahead of him. The boy who did the shooting becomes like "stone", he does not cry-does not seek any solace from his family. It has been over twenty years since I read the story so I don't remember what happens in the end. (sorry). I'm going to look it up to find out for myself...

I have unemotional people in my family. People who seem "cold", and in my experience: they are cold people. What you see is what you get. They are not "evil" people, have done no terrible physical harm to anyone or anything criminal: but from my emotional perspective and my way of handling being a human being and all the intense emotions I feel: they do not seem to feel things as deeply as I do. These are people who will look at you and say, "you don't have to get so emotional" but if accused of not having deep feelings they take strong defense. I always have thought: "now, there's the emotion we were looking for", my realization is that the strong emotions are always for themselves.

With ICA, as with Tiffany: all I can think is if people were getting the wrong impression about ME, I would have a lot more to say about that with a lot more emotion. I admit I judge people to be "more innocent or more guilty" by their emotions. I don't think you can fake "deepness" or depth in your personality. You can try, but IMHO anyone who has deep feelings will see through it eventually.

I have always been called "overly emotional" by those in my family. So, my perspective my be skewed. Tiffany was on Dr. Phil this morning and he was saying that everyone reacts differently to tragedy and she shouldn't judge herself nor should anyone else because of her behavior.

Is this something I should rethink regarding ICA? (I still believe Casey killed Caylee).

...js...

 

[Gma Kat]

I enjoyed your post Chiquita. Like you, Tiffany's affect seemed flat but as you so well pointed out, some people are simply like that. I can think of people I have known throughout my life that were what I describe as "cardboard"....no personality at all. Their highs and lows almost indiscernible from one another. I have always assumed that what was going on inside of their minds was what they were demonstrating on the outside. I could be totally off on this since I am an animated person by nature. But yeah, its hard to give someone credibility when they don't react like "we" do. My first reaction to the story and her interview was "I could never leave my husband behind!" So I impose my personal reaction and feelings to her and assume something is amiss when her reaction and response are different. I assume "my" reaction is right and thus hers must be wrong....I totally applied this same logic to ICA and the A family as this drama unfolded. It really didn't take long to figure out that logic did not apply to this situation. At that point I threw up my hands knowing it would take a long time for the evidence to tell me the real story.....this family is a study in dysfunction itself and I'm confident that it will become exactly that someday.

 

[Shalya]

I've wondered how I would react to the death of one of my children (just from reading here and seeing the videos, etc), and I always think that I would be uncontrollably emotional. Screaming, crying, unable to eat, sleep, unable to stay sane. But I sort of dismiss the fact that it might be too much for me to handle and I might just totally shut down... but if I did that, I wouldn't be able to talk at all because the emotions would come out. I also think that if I reacted in this latter way that suicide would be constantly on my mind as a way to get out of the hell that I can't even bring myself to express. Just thinking about the most awful thing in the world and how I would react to it... I don't know. I've cried at funerals, my step-father's funeral was very, very hard, but he wasn't around me my whole life and definitely not one of my kids.

I certainly wouldn't care how I dressed, I wouldn't pit myself against the police, I wouldn't lie to the police... but then I -know- I could never kill my children. I just can't comprehend Casey's mindset at all.

 

[logicalgirl]

Hello WS

The young lady, Tiffany, who lost her husband recently in what she says was an "attack" while in Mexico. I have seen this young lady in several interviews. I have found her lack of tears, or emotional expression regarding her husband disturbing.

I find her behavior to be much like that of Casey Anthony. I do not see what I call "real tears" ever fall from her eyes. Just as with Casey, there are people who defend the way they behave and say, "everyone reacts to tragedy differently." There have been WSers who have used their own examples of what happened to them to say they were very non emotional after.

I remember reading "The Stone Boy" a short story we read in school. It was about young brothers(children), and the one boy shoots and kills his brother but it was a accident. The brother's gun gets caught in barbed wire and goes off, shooting his brother who is ahead of him. The boy who did the shooting becomes like "stone", he does not cry-does not seek any solace from his family. It has been over twenty years since I read the story so I don't remember what happens in the end. (sorry). I'm going to look it up to find out for myself...

I have unemotional people in my family. People who seem "cold", and in my experience: they are cold people. What you see is what you get. They are not "evil" people, have done no terrible physical harm to anyone or anything criminal: but from my emotional perspective and my way of handling being a human being and all the intense emotions I feel: they do not seem to feel things as deeply as I do. These are people who will look at you and say, "you don't have to get so emotional" but if accused of not having deep feelings they take strong defense. I always have thought: "now, there's the emotion we were looking for", my realization is that the strong emotions are always for themselves.

With ICA, as with Tiffany: all I can think is if people were getting the wrong impression about ME, I would have a lot more to say about that with a lot more emotion. I admit I judge people to be "more innocent or more guilty" by their emotions. I don't think you can fake "deepness" or depth in your personality. You can try, but IMHO anyone who has deep feelings will see through it eventually.

I have always been called "overly emotional" by those in my family. So, my perspective my be skewed. Tiffany was on Dr. Phil this morning and he was saying that everyone reacts differently to tragedy and she shouldn't judge herself nor should anyone else because of her behavior.

Is this something I should rethink regarding ICA? (I still believe Casey killed Caylee).

...js...

Oh Chiquita71 - please never stop being your emotional self! I would love to have the ability to express such emotions.

Speaking for myself - I know in times of acute distress I am a "stone-face", especially where death is concerned. I wish I could fall apart and grieve like a normal person - but because of some pretty traumatic childhood issues - it is just something I'm not able to do. I "freeze" and it takes me a year or so before I can get the grief to start leaking up to the surface. And yes, I've done the shrink stuff, but I guess what you learn between the ages of birth and five stays with you forever. My beloved oldest brother died suddenly a number of years ago, and I took a day off of work. I remember stunned co-workers looking at me like I was some kind of a freak because I seemed to be so emotionless, acting normal and working as usual, when I was devastated inside. It just wasn't something I could bring to the surface. And yet I feel and can express grief at someone else's loss. Who knows why?

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

Thank you logicalgirl, GmaKat and Shalya :blowkiss:

Thank you for all you shared, it has sparked a better understanding for myself as to where I stand.

For all my intense emotions, feeling them and expressing them-I too can and have been more stoic in my response to high stress. I can understand that a truly deeply feeling/expressing person could react with a "non reaction." I have had that response now that I think about it, I guess I could not indentify because of how I was thinking about it. Any event in my life I would classify as tragic/upsetting/etc. has the follow up of eventually having the outward demonstration. But, I think of that as a delayed reaction, whereas I am judging Casey(Tiffany, Scott Peterson, etc.)of never having a reaction at all.

I think the difference I need to remember here is: whether you are accused of "the" crime of not and having this reaction. Casey could have stayed stoic all of her life to whatever may have occurred and we wouldn't be talking about her or her reactions to anything, we are only here because Caylee was murdered.

I pull my comparison of the story the Stone Boy because as I have read about it now as a adult, and I see it is about the whole family and how they handle tragedy. They are "old fashioned" and believe you don't show your emotions. The boy gets froze out by the silence of the family and their need to not deal with what happened and since he was taught to hide emotions he does not go to them either. "The silence of the family" is not any where near what ICA is dealing with, I don't think Cindy has encouraged the family to not show emotions.

Those that are questioning Casey(and Tiffany)and Scott Peterson and his non reactions to his missing wife and child were all wondering if they were the person who did the deed and for reasons more than just how they are behaving. If someone died of natural causes and a loved one was stoic, no one would say, "well, that is suspicious." It only becomes a behavior to "judge" when foul play is involved and that (in many cases) includes forensic evidence to back up those suspicions.

The(wonderful)detectives that spoke to Casey when she took them to Universal looking for Caylee, came to some of the same conclusions. They gave her all the "outs" that go along with the complexities of being human. The officers gave Casey every possible configuration known to (wo)man, to help explain her behavior, so they could believe she cared about Caylee. And, the more she refused to give them anything, anything...the more they let her know what conclusion they were being forced to come to, that she had done something to hurt her child on purpose, that she was a monster.

Emotional or not, anyone who has been stoic during a tragic event is more than likely not being compared to a monster.

Thanks again everyone for sharing.

:twocents:

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello again

Jose's plan starts to work on me after a while. He gets me to doubt myself. He (a couple of times)has got me wondering about "our"/my judgement of Casey and I forgot this is about who killed Caylee, not why are we picking on Casey?

Jose's plan has been to make this about Casey, and the media's/our jealousy and unprovoked and irrational hate of an innocent women due to flaws inside of ourselves.

It is times like these I remember what WSers have said. The trial will be about Caylee. Right now it seems it is only about Casey because only those on her team and in her family have been speaking out. I am glad the State has chosen to be silent(its the main reason I think they will win)but it has felt like Caylee has been left behind in her own death.

:cow:

:twocents:

 

[OneLostGrl]

My mother is overly emotional about everything. If her car breaks down she freaks out, threatening suicide. So when her husband killed himself I was very worried about her reaction. Thankfully she was in the hospital at the time (for a "suicide attempt" so she was already pretty fragile atm) though I was in a different state and couldn't get there for a few more days so I called my sister and the hospital and had it all planned out for them to be there to give her some big a$$ed shot of something real heavy. I expected her to flip out. She didn't even cry! I kept thinking maybe she was in denial but she accepted it she just didn't freak out. I think sometimes we expect things from people and we are wrong. People live their whole lives learning how to block things out, "go numb" and for whatever reason they handle some things differently than others. They are more numb to some issues than to others. My mom was IN the hospital because her husband had hit someone with their car and caused damage so she did the whole cry for help suicide attempt (you know, take a handful of pills then tell someone 5 minutes later?) yet her husband DIES and she isn't even upset. Casey supposably freaked out about some fake miscarrage yet her real baby dies and nothing. It's that stuff I wish I could understand..

 

[logicalgirl]

My mother is overly emotional about everything. If her car breaks down she freaks out, threatening suicide. So when her husband killed himself I was very worried about her reaction. Thankfully she was in the hospital at the time (for a "suicide attempt" so she was already pretty fragile atm) though I was in a different state and couldn't get there for a few more days so I called my sister and the hospital and had it all planned out for them to be there to give her some big a$$ed shot of something real heavy. I expected her to flip out. She didn't even cry! I kept thinking maybe she was in denial but she accepted it she just didn't freak out. I think sometimes we expect things from people and we are wrong. People live their whole lives learning how to block things out, "go numb" and for whatever reason they handle some things differently than others. They are more numb to some issues than to others. My mom was IN the hospital because her husband had hit someone with their car and caused damage so she did the whole cry for help suicide attempt (you know, take a handful of pills then tell someone 5 minutes later?) yet her husband DIES and she isn't even upset. Casey supposably freaked out about some fake miscarrage yet her real baby dies and nothing. It's that stuff I wish I could understand..

Some of us sure have some stories about our mothers! Mine fell apart over everything so she didn't have to accept responsibility for her children that she had because of the attention she got for her husband and people in general. I suppose some of it can be explained away with the bi-polar diagnosis, but it is important to note that as we all reached adulthood, her mental health improved dramatically.

To me ICA is solidly in the psychopath camp. She is emotional only when something gets in her way for something she wants for herself. ICA wasn't emotional about "disposing" of Caylee, because she had no feelings at all for her, and this "object" was in the path of her freedom, and the life she wanted for herself. If Caylee was gone, her mother would stop forever yapping at her to get home, or do this or do that.

She was wailing about her supposed miscarriage because she wanted the attention of the young man she was pointing her finger at as the father. His indifference resulted in anger - and translated into "wailing" so it would be an emotionally acceptable response to and from her friends.

IMO of course.

 

[cecybeans]

Okay, I saw this and just couldn't resist. It's a local Dr. who wrote a book about how to tell if teenagers are lying.

But I cracked up at some of the tells because they are SOOOOO Cindy. My fave is at about 2:15 in the video and it deals with excessive water drinking...

for your viewing pleasure -

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=resources&id=7764932

 

[OneLostGrl]

Some of us sure have some stories about our mothers! Mine fell apart over everything so she didn't have to accept responsibility for her children that she had because of the attention she got for her husband and people in general. I suppose some of it can be explained away with the bi-polar diagnosis, but it is important to note that as we all reached adulthood, her mental health improved dramatically.

To me ICA is solidly in the psychopath camp. She is emotional only when something gets in her way for something she wants for herself. ICA wasn't emotional about "disposing" of Caylee, because she had no feelings at all for her, and this "object" was in the path of her freedom, and the life she wanted for herself. If Caylee was gone, her mother would stop forever yapping at her to get home, or do this or do that.

She was wailing about her supposed miscarriage because she wanted the attention of the young man she was pointing her finger at as the father. His indifference resulted in anger - and translated into "wailing" so it would be an emotionally acceptable response to and from her friends.

IMO of course.

Re: your mom, sounds pretty spot on imo. Couldn't handle the stress of real life and responsibility... Once responsibility was no longer a problem, her stress level eased and she felt better mentally. My bigest issue has always been stress. If I am responsibility (ie:stress) free, my Bipolar is pretty good but as soon as life hits me so does my bipolar and OCD. The trick is learning how to function instead of Hibernating (which for me meant good ol' anti-psychotics and lots of sleeping! no stress or falling apart if your sleeping!) Hibernating is so much easier to do but is so unfair to those who depend on you. Back then though it was accepted, even expected, ya know? :hug: It seems you turned out just fine!!

Back to Casey. I can't help but wonder if Cindy had let her child be a mother.. if she could have been "free" with Caylee around... I still had a life after I had my child- millions of us do. I don't think it was Caylee that was tying her down but Cindy with her rules for Casey. Had Cindy let her daughter grow up and make her own life with her child would this have still happened. I don't think it would have. I think she could have attatched to Caylee (in her own odd way) if not for Cindy.

 

[txsvicki]

I don't see how Cindy wasn't allowing Casey to mother Caylee. Cindy worked all day while Casey was with her child and then it seemed that she was only expected to either get an education, work, or stay home some evenings instead of expecting her to babysit. It seemed that the idea of a job was abandoned until Caylee started school because Cindy pretty knew that Casey wasn't working. They probably couldn't afford daycare and just gave up on her working or attending classes. Casey took Caylee with her all over the place and the only problem we've heard of was over her spending the night with men while having Caylee along. Most moms would not approve of their daughters doing that or trying to marry the first young guy that came along after giving birth while still not even having a GED or job. The stealing and lying led to Cindy getting info on custody which was what someone attentive should do. The only things we've heard are statements that Casey told her friends in blaming Cindy for various things. Much like what George does. Casey goes into rages like George and (according to Shirley) he stole from Cindy as well.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't see how Cindy wasn't allowing Casey to mother Caylee. Cindy worked all day while Casey was with her child and then it seemed that she was only expected to either get an education, work, or stay home some evenings instead of expecting her to babysit. It seemed that the idea of a job was abandoned until Caylee started school because Cindy pretty knew that Casey wasn't working. They probably couldn't afford daycare and just gave up on her working or attending classes. Casey took Caylee with her all over the place and the only problem we've heard of was over her spending the night with men while having Caylee along. Most moms would not approve of their daughters doing that or trying to marry the first young guy that came along after giving birth while still not even having a GED or job. The stealing and lying led to Cindy getting info on custody which was what someone attentive should do. The only things we've heard are statements that Casey told her friends in blaming Cindy for various things. Much like what George does. Casey goes into rages like George and (according to Shirley) he stole from Cindy as well.

My point is that Casey was no longer a child but a mother herself and imo should have been held responsibe for her actions and inactions. Such as stealing from family, lying about having a job, not paying for her own childs food, toys, clothing or heath care. There should have come a point when mommy stopped bailing out, covering up for, telling her husband to stop "spying on" his own daughter when he suspected she was lying. There needs to come a time when a parent stops treating their grown daughter like a spoiled teenager and that point should have been when she became a mother herself (should have been sooner IMO but I won't get all technical). It is our JOB as parents to prepare our children for the world, to ready them for the future.. a future that does not include us having a right to have a say in their decisions. We may not want our kids to make certain choices but there has to come a time where we stand back and allow them to make them. They are not extentions of us.. they are not "little me's".. they are their own thinking feeling people and we cripple them by treating them as if they are.

She didn't get info on custody, she was told by a therapist to kick Casey out and her response to that was leaving the office and never going back because that was not an option for her. That is very different than getting info on custody and her reaction was far from what an attentive person would do.. it's what a Codependent engulfed caregiver would do. She needed Casey just like she needs George. If she hates Casey so much why did she come on tV saying Casey is her best friend? And that she doesn't want to lose George? That is not what someone who feels taken advantage of says.. she is having her sick needs met just as they are. imo.