Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[countzero]

CA only feels entitlement. Everything else she does is a by-product of her need for entitlement. Hence we view the narcissism she displays on an on-going basis.

 

[logicalgirl]

CA only feels entitlement. Everything else she does is a by-product of her need for entitlement. Hence we view the narcissism she displays on an on-going basis.

LOL you've "trumped me" because I'm not getting into a long winded discussion about what is the basis of her feelings of entitlement, what is it's root cause. Hahaha - I'm interested in what makes her tick but not that interested!!!

 

[sharpar]

I have always liked the following explaination

Shame is I am bad

Guilt is I did a bad thing

 

[countzero]

LOL you've "trumped me" because I'm not getting into a long winded discussion about what is the basis of her feelings of entitlement, what is it's root cause. Hahaha - I'm interested in what makes her tick but not that interested!!!

There isn't enough time in a year to explain in depth why CA feels entitled. All her feelings go back to her childhood and progressed from there. Same as ICA with the exception that I believe CA hated the fact she gave birth to her. Competition that grew intense from day one. CA herself states "we are made from the same cloth". ICA followed the same path of hatred for Caylee.

Shirley and Rick have given a brief glimpse of CAs past behaviors. And I would bet more will come out in the trial.

Whatever the root cause is, we know what the end result of CAs behavior was.

Will CA change, not a snowballs chance in HE double hockey sticks. Even faced with a terminal illness, she will continue on her path.

Side note here: CA does not have any mental illness; personality disorders, oh yea. She is perfectly aware of her actions. The fact that she "challenges" the legal system and societies rules of conduct on an on-going basis demonstrates she knows the legal definition of right and wrong.

 

[logicalgirl]

There isn't enough time in a year to explain in depth why CA feels entitled. All her feelings go back to her childhood and progressed from there. Same as ICA with the exception that I believe CA hated the fact she gave birth to her. Competition that grew intense from day one. CA herself states "we are made from the same cloth". ICA followed the same path of hatred for Caylee.

Shirley and Rick have given a brief glimpse of CAs past behaviors. And I would bet more will come out in the trial.

Whatever the root cause is, we know what the end result of CAs behavior was.

Will CA change, not a snowballs chance in HE double hockey sticks. Even faced with a terminal illness, she will continue on her path.

Side note here: CA does not have any mental illness; personality disorders, oh yea. She is perfectly aware of her actions. The fact that she "challenges" the legal system and societies rules of conduct on an on-going basis demonstrates she knows the legal definition of right and wrong.

So, what you are saying is people who have mental illnesses or personality disorders are not aware of their actions?

Of course they are. And ICA is clearly a psychopath, she cares nothing for Cindy beyond the things she wants for her. That's IMO part of Cindy's problem, she knows it, but keeps trying over and over to connect with her. It's all a game to ICA.

 

[wildchild1961]

Why do people feel embarrassment? What is the root cause?

Shame.

Why do people feel guilt? Same answer.

Yes, I agree, Cindy does feel righteous - then moves to anger.

But my question is - what is the feeling she has in order to feel righteous?
Righteous is the end result of a series of mental decisions, that move her forward to anger. To feel wronged and spew poison comes from what? What is the root cause?

feeling completely inadequate and powerless... so the anger kicks in. But IMO I feel we are splitting hairs here. I feel shame is the end result of all these feelings .. right before you "clue in" and change what you are doing instead of being the feeling that causes you to act out in anger. If you haven't done wrong.. to be ashamed about.. why would you react to it by getting angry? Cindy appears to have been angry her whole adult life... even the neighbors talk about her being the "B" of the block. What would she have been ashamed about all that time.. to continually be so angry, mean and vindictive? How she is reacting is not only because of the situation with Casey.

I just think we are differing on when and how "shame" comes into play.

wild

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I have been reading these particular posts with great interest. I love reading new ideas and discovering the "other side", things that make me go.. oooooooooooh.. and shakes me out of my comfort zone and gets me thinking. So I have been thinking about shame and its ramifications.

On one hand... I completely 100% agree that anger drives Cindy. It controls her and has for a very long time. However, I am having a lot of problem with "shame" being the root cause. To me.. shame is something that happens when you feel guilt. I have never once.. seen Cindy allow herself to feel guilt, even when she lies and knows she is caught in one red-handed. She is WAY too righteous when she is angry and when you feel righteous.. you do NOT feel you are the slightest bit in the wrong. So why would you feel guilty? Not in any way, shape or form. In fact.. you feel you have every right in the world.. to feel.. well.. "righteous". Cindy feels RIGHTEOUS. When she gets angry.. it's apparent in every word she speaks, every gesture she makes and every single muscle/bone in her body. It literally EXUDES from her pores and righteous folk.. never feel guilty. EVER. Hence.. I just cannot see how shame plays into this that much. Shame comes AFTER the act.. not before it. That righteous anger.. reassures her that she need never feel guilty.

What I do see playing a HUGE role in Cindy's anger over the years.. is how she has learned to cope with embarrassment. George's "failures" as a provider and husband. George gambling HER hard earned money away. Casey getting pregnant. Casey stealing money. Casey telling lies. Her home always having to be cleaner/better than anyone else's, Caylee's care was always THE BEST (out of Cindy's own mouth). Casey has to be Mother of the Year. Casey's inadequacies as a daughter.. and even Cindy's own issues of allowing them all to continue to parasitically feed of her. But yet it was all dealt with IN HOUSE.. because there would be hell to pay if anyone outside of the home knew. Cindy never felt guilty about these acts.. Cindy would be embarrassed if others found out. Shame is about how you internalize situations. Cindy doesn't internalize.. not from what we have seen at least. From what we see peeking on on the windows of their lives.. Cindy has spent a lifetime tamping down that guilt and making sure it was everyone else's fault.

let me toss out a different word.

"Embarrassment
A state of being embarrassed; perplexity; impediment to freedom of action; entanglement; hindrance; confusion or discomposure of mind, as from not knowing what to do or to say; disconcertedness"

Watch the old videos folks.. and see when Cindy goes the most ballistic and evil in her attacks on folks. It's when she gets EMBARRASSED. She gets embarrassed when answering questions about Casey. Cindy can't defend Casey's actions because she hasn't even been given enough respect from Casey to have been TOLD all that has happened so the embarrassment kicks in because of...(perplexity; impediment to freedom of action; entanglement; hindrance; confusion or discomposure of mind, as from not knowing what to do or to say; disconcertedness"). To try and cover Casey's worthless behind.. Cindy makes the most pathetic and dishonest statements around and looks like a complete fool by spouting that stuff.. so after she makes those statements.. and is questioned again about how stupid they sound.. watch her get embarrassed and then go straight to a vicious attack because once again... "perplexity; impediment to freedom of action; entanglement; hindrance; confusion or discomposure of mind, as from not knowing what to do or to say; disconcertedness" comes right back into play. That is NOT shame.. she is waaaaaay too busy ranting and raving to internalize guilt.

IMO.. this reaction to being embarrassed started with Cindy when she was a very young girl. Virulent anger is a release of the immature when they are feeling helpless and EMBARRASSED. Watch a teenager shoot something perfectly wicked and evil outa their mouths when they get mad because you caught them in the middle of a huge ole whopper. It's embarrassment. Shame comes LATER.. AFTER you have cooled down (not before) and understand how badly you have acted or hurt someone. Cindy never has allowed herself to reach that point in any interview or video I have seen, Not once.. ever.

Cindy is either all soft and sweet.. or full of rage and righteousness. I honestly have never seen any trace of shame. If someone could point me to a video where she demonstrates it.. I will happily eat my words.

It's not shame that I see coming off her in those videos. It's poison .. spewing out of her from all the "wrongs" she has been handed in life.

as always.. just my two cents..

and thank you all for some really thought provoking posts

wild

Great synopsis of your view. This is the way I look at CA too - the word 'righteous' describes CA's demeanor.

I googled something like 'people who can never admit they are wrong' and narcissism came up.

The self defeating thing about the way CA behaves is that usually, when someone admits a weakness or that they are wrong, people will try to understand, help and comfort you. She just insights anger in others by the way she reacts and lashes out and refuses to listen to any other point of view but her own.

 

[countzero]

So, what you are saying is people who have mental illnesses or personality disorders are not aware of their actions?

Of course they are. And ICA is clearly a psychopath, she cares nothing for Cindy beyond the things she wants for her. That's IMO part of Cindy's problem, she knows it, but keeps trying over and over to connect with her. It's all a game to ICA.

Lol, no dear friend. I am saying CA does not have a mental illness. She has personality disorders, quite a few in a collection. CA is more than aware of right and wrong in the legal sense. CA plays a role 24/7 depending on her audience. When in front of the media, she plays the grieving persona. At home, behind closed curtains, she is a witch on wheels. She could care less where ICA ends up. A box six feet under or behind bars in a cell. What CA does care about is her self entitlement; to project the image of importance that CA has conjured in her mind. Definitely the wrong way to do it, but then again CA is on a mission the media apparently wants to assist her with.

ICA is all together another issue. ICA has many of CAs personality plus disorders and she took her hatred towards CA to the ultimate extreme.

My post was directed towards CA.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Why do people feel embarrassment? What is the root cause?

Shame.

Why do people feel guilt? Same answer.

Yes, I agree, Cindy does feel righteous - then moves to anger.

But my question is - what is the feeling she has in order to feel righteous?
Righteous is the end result of a series of mental decisions, that move her forward to anger. To feel wronged and spew poison comes from what? What is the root cause?

A personality disorder! Common sense is not going to explain away or make sense of any of her behaviors. This woman is pathological. She knows no other ways of coping!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Why do people feel embarrassment? What is the root cause?

Shame.

Why do people feel guilt? Same answer.

Yes, I agree, Cindy does feel righteous - then moves to anger.

But my question is - what is the feeling she has in order to feel righteous?
Righteous is the end result of a series of mental decisions, that move her forward to anger. To feel wronged and spew poison comes from what? What is the root cause?

fear, defensiveness, defensiveness against guilt that one can never admit or acknowledge in a million years because it's everyone else's fault, the need to be in control which must stem from some sort of fear or because you're trying to order your unordered life, fear of failure and denial of reality.

How am I doing? I'm just writing down what comes to mind based on your questions. Righteousness is a defense mechanism I would think. She will fight to the death to prove she is right even if she isn't :waitasec:. So lastly, stupidity.

I read somewhere that anger is the easiest reaction to cover for other feelings; sadness and fear. When someone is angry all the time they are usually afraid. Again, a defense mechanism.

 

[logicalgirl]

I know everyone is pretty bent out of shape about Cindy's behavior but I am expressing my personal observations and viewpoint. I'd like a much more intense study of her before I make really sweeping statements.

We only see media clips, interviews, depos etc., and those are life slices, that we can make assumptions from. Who knows what the heck drives this woman and what influences she is under when we see her behavior. She definitely has only three wheels on her wagon, that I know for sure. But why? It is fun to guess.

 

[logicalgirl]

fear, defensiveness, defensiveness against guilt that one can never admit or acknowledge in a million years because it's everyone else's fault, the need to be in control which must stem from some sort of fear or because you're trying to order your unordered life, fear of failure and denial of reality.

How am I doing? I'm just writing down what comes to mind based on your questions. Righteousness is a defense mechanism I would think. She will fight to the death to prove she is right even if she isn't :waitasec:. So lastly, stupidity.

I read somewhere that anger is the easiest reaction to cover for other feelings; sadness and fear. When someone is angry all the time they are usually afraid. Again, a defense mechanism.

You are doing great - those are excellent! I love that last one - stupidity!:innocent:

 

[OneLostGrl]

There isn't enough time in a year to explain in depth why CA feels entitled. All her feelings go back to her childhood and progressed from there. Same as ICA with the exception that I believe CA hated the fact she gave birth to her. Competition that grew intense from day one. CA herself states "we are made from the same cloth". ICA followed the same path of hatred for Caylee.

Shirley and Rick have given a brief glimpse of CAs past behaviors. And I would bet more will come out in the trial.

Whatever the root cause is, we know what the end result of CAs behavior was.

Will CA change, not a snowballs chance in HE double hockey sticks. Even faced with a terminal illness, she will continue on her path.

Side note here: CA does not have any mental illness; personality disorders, oh yea. She is perfectly aware of her actions. The fact that she "challenges" the legal system and societies rules of conduct on an on-going basis demonstrates she knows the legal definition of right and wrong.

I agree she most likely will never change but she can change if she really wants to. Behavioral Therapy (combined with IMO anti-psychotics) can be an amazing tool for those with these types of personality disorders who willing to be honest with themselves and motivated to change. Those 2 things (honesty and motivation to change) just don't happen very often.. or if they do, they don't last for very long, sadly. But like you, I can't see Cindy ever getting to a point where she'd admit she even has a problem!

 

[LambChop]

You're disappointed at how life treats you then all of a sudden a ray of sunshine comes into your life and is as quickly taken away. CA thought she had all bases covered by NOT sharing Caylee's birth with the birth father.....instead she has to deal with the child's mother who has done far worse than just ask for visitation. Sometimes things just don't turn out as you expected. Makes for a very angry person. jmo

 

[logicalgirl]

I agree she most likely will never change but she can change if she really wants to. Behavioral Therapy (combined with IMO anti-psychotics) can be an amazing tool for those with these types of personality disorders who willing to be honest with themselves and motivated to change. Those 2 things (honesty and motivation to change) just don't happen very often.. or if they do, they don't last for very long, sadly. But like you, I can't see Cindy ever getting to a point where she'd admit she even has a problem!

I'm going to be really really interested to see what is left in Cindy's shell at the end of the trial with the guilty verdict and the penalty. This will be no quickie trial. And much of the evidence will be brutal and unarguable.

We know Baez will immediately scuttle off stage left to whatever life holds for him. But what will Cindy do? Collapse at the absolutely enormity of the crime? Because what she has been fighting since day 31 has been that one word - guilty. Or will she come out swinging. I'm really not sure.....

I'd assume swinging, but then again, that's a long long time to hold all that together, and the SA will be chopping away at all her theories during the trial. So maybe she will just be a puddle on the floor...

Forgot the main part - because Cindy knows in her heart ICA is guilty.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Maybe it is something as simple as being stuck in a bad marriage. Feeling that you can't get out but the least you can do is present yourself to the outside world as having the perfect life, don't let anyone know the truth by closing yourself off and keeping family business to yourselves. One by one each one of the family members starts to disappoint you for minor or major reasons. You wake up one morning to find your whole life just went down the drain and you start scratching at the drain to keep from losing all of it. I would say years of disappointment, one right after another and never, ever admitting there is a problem or facing that problem to find a resolution. No one to blame but yourself. If you're not part of the solution, you are certainly part of the problem. This is CA today. jmo

And it's displaced anger at everyone and anyone who cannot or does not want to see things her way. The more control she lost (over GA and CA), the more she began sounding like a drill sergeant. The crazy making concept again.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I know everyone is pretty bent out of shape about Cindy's behavior but I am expressing my personal observations and viewpoint. I'd like a much more intense study of her before I make really sweeping statements.

We only see media clips, interviews, depos etc., and those are life slices, that we can make assumptions from. Who knows what the heck drives this woman and what influences she is under when we see her behavior. She definitely has only three wheels on her wagon, that I know for sure. But why? It is fun to guess.

There is so much I'd love to know about Cindy because I think if we knew them Casey and her behaviors and ways of coping would then make some sense to us (well, to me anyway). I mentioned before that I live only about 15 min from Rick and thought for about 2 seconds, a long time ago, of calling him and seeing if he'd be willing to speak with me, answer some of my questions about her. But I am just so against people inserting themselves into these cases and regardless of how badly I wanna know what made Cindy Cindy, I'll have to not know. It would be so nice to know though!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I have always liked the following explaination

Shame is I am bad

Guilt is I did a bad thing

And real shame can be good as in I'll never do that again because I don't want to feel shame (it feels bad). Therefore, if you're in touch with yourself and you can admit you brought that on by what you did, shame acts as an internal punishment of sorts. (not false shame caused externally but shame for something one has brought onto theirself).

It you can never admit you are wrong, you cannot learn from feelings of guilt or shame. :twocents:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm going to be really really interested to see what is left in Cindy's shell at the end of the trial with the guilty verdict and the penalty. This will be no quickie trial. And much of the evidence will be brutal and unarguable.

We know Baez will immediately scuttle off stage left to whatever life holds for him. But what will Cindy do? Collapse at the absolutely enormity of the crime? Because what she has been fighting since day 31 has been that one word - guilty. Or will she come out swinging. I'm really not sure.....

I'd assume swinging, but then again, that's a long long time to hold all that together, and the SA will be chopping away at all her theories during the trial. So maybe she will just be a puddle on the floor...

Forgot the main part - because Cindy knows in her heart ICA is guilty.

I pray that somebody will decide to love her enough by then to get her help so she has the proper support once the trial starts so she will have help accepting and coming to terms with the truth and won't be allowed to swallow it down and ignore it as she has been. I keep telling myself somebody has to love this woman enough, don't they?! It's sad to see everyone just allows her to continue destroying herself.

 

[wildchild1961]

]I know everyone is pretty bent out of shape about Cindy's behavior but I am expressing my personal observations and viewpoint. I'd like a much more intense study of her before I make really sweeping statements.[/B]

We only see media clips, interviews, depos etc., and those are life slices, that we can make assumptions from. Who knows what the heck drives this woman and what influences she is under when we see her behavior. She definitely has only three wheels on her wagon, that I know for sure. But why? It is fun to guess.

But the thing is logicalgirl.. that is exactly how I feel as well. I am also expressing my personal observations and viewpoint and its not because I am bent out of shape about Cindy. It's how I truly see her. I agree with you that we cannot make broad sweeping statements based on just what we have seen, however.. "just what we have seen" is also the basis for your argument that she reacts because of shame. It can't work both ways... either it is how all of us can make comments and decisions about the "why's" of how she acts.. or none of us can.

I love being able to discuss things like this you You make me think! And that is ALWAYS a very good thing <gryns> please don't ever stop!

off to work now <sighs> I can read this site from work.. but I can't sign in.. so no posting for me for another 12 hours.. yuck! Everyoen have a great day

wild