Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[kiki the parrot]

Conspicuous consumption of A Family Kool-Aid?

Guilty as charged! :gavel:

And lest we forget, because afterall it IS all about Casey: Whatever the sick dynamic between George and Cindy, whatever personality twists they bring to their daughter, what Casey does to compensate, to get through it, to adjust, to cope is diabolical, destructive, poisonous. Whether she ever thought it was going to be her goal or not, she is successfully destroying the foundation from whence she came.

ETA: I think she got a lot frustrated at her folks for not seeing to what level she had to go in order to accomplish this goal. In my head, I could imagine her saying to herself "Holy smokes, folks! What MORE do I have to DO to get through to you?????"

Of course, I often wax hyperbolic.

Funny you should say that, thanks for reminding me!! As I sat watching the new jailhouse video observing KC's mounting frustration and aggitation I had the overwhelming sense I was watching a spoilt child whose tantrum was admittedly getting her nowhere--but is also shouting loud and clear essentially, "geesh you two, can't you see I'm spinning these lies and manipulating and doing basically everything you ever taught me, every tactic I've learned that always worked before and the only thing I've ever known to do when I'm up against a wall only for the first time it's not working.... Oy...

 

[elissabee]

(bold mine) We can't just give everyone a pass here! And what is GA's "mental illness?" Omg he's the only one who has a prayer! JMO

I am not giving anybody a pass here. I thought we were talking about A family dynamics. I'm saying within that family, George seems to get a pass. KC would rather talk to George, rather see George, because she can't talk to her mother. Her mother gets angry and defensive because she's had it up to here dealing with her daughter and husband, but George is Mr. Cool to Casey. All the blame gets put on Cindy when Casey gets upset.

From reading the emails between Cindy's brother and mother, it sounds like he's had a ton of problems including spending/gambling addiction. Cindy's brother calls him a "loser" and says he ruined his sister's life. Coupled with the supposed "sicknes" in George's family, it sounds like he's a guy not without issues.

Please remember, this is my theory. Everybody's got one, right?

 

[BuzzieCat]

It's simple. KC becomes volatile and reacts w anger to bully her parents when she wants to shut them up and keep CA from asking the tough questions. JMO

Yes, I see what she's doing there and how she is trying to control them and they step back so as to maintain contact with her. But I mean just in general something is weird about GA. He is part of this family dynamic also, it wasn't just Cindy's actions that made this whole family this way. He wasn't just a passive creature who just laid there innocently while the rest of the family went off the rails, IMO. Or maybe he has always been this way to try to avoid having to contribute to the family (no steady job, no willingness to do something about Casey before it was too late, falling for the Nigerian scam, etc.). I don't see him contributing anything to the family monetarily or otherwise. He should be doing something. And he has a temper, so he could probably stand up to Cindy if he really wanted to IMO.

By the time Caylee was born, it was too late IMO. Casey was already the way she was and with a baby she had the ultimate key to control her parents. After that they couldn't really do anything with her anymore unless they had called the police whenever she stole money. They needed to nip her in the bud when she was a kid and they didn't, apparently.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Conspicuous consumption of A Family Kool-Aid?

Guilty as charged! :gavel:

And lest we forget, because afterall it IS all about Casey: Whatever the sick dynamic between George and Cindy, whatever personality twists they bring to their daughter, what Casey does to compensate, to get through it, to adjust, to cope is diabolical, destructive, poisonous. Whether she ever thought it was going to be her goal or not, she is successfully destroying the foundation from whence she came.

ETA: I think she got a lot frustrated at her folks for not seeing to what level she had to go in order to accomplish this goal. In my head, I could imagine her saying to herself "Holy smokes, folks! What MORE do I have to DO to get through to you?????"

Of course, I often wax hyperbolic.

Funny you should say that, thanks for reminding me!! As I sat watching the new jailhouse video watching KC's mounting frustration and aggitation I had the overwhelming sense I was watching a spoilt child whose tantrum was admittedly getting her nowhere--but is also screaming to me loud and clear essentially, "You guys can't you see I'm spinning these lies and manipulating and doing basically everything you ever taught me, every tactic I've learned that's always worked before and the only thing I've ever known to do when I'm up against the wall only for the first time it's not working.... Oy...

 

[BuzzieCat]

It's simple. KC becomes volatile and reacts w anger to bully her parents when she wants to shut them up and keep CA from asking the tough questions. JMO

Yes, I see what she's doing there and how she is trying to control them and they step back so as to maintain contact with her. But I mean just in general something is weird about GA. He is part of this family dynamic also, it wasn't just Cindy's actions that made this whole family this way. He wasn't just a passive creature who just laid there innocently while the rest of the family went off the rails, IMO. Or maybe he has always been this way to try to avoid having to contribute to the family (no steady job, no willingness to do something about Casey before it was too late, falling for the Nigerian scam, etc.). I don't see him contributing anything to the family monetarily or otherwise. He should be doing something. And he has a temper, so he could probably stand up to Cindy if he really wanted to IMO.

By the time Caylee was born, it was too late IMO. Casey was already the way she was and with a baby she had the ultimate key to control her parents. After that they couldn't really do anything with her anymore unless they had called the police whenever she stole money. They needed to nip her in the bud when she was a kid and they didn't, apparently.

 

[sharpar]

George is the sickest one of all ---- he is passive aggressive and very low key so its not obviously apparent he is the KING wingnut . I guarantee you Cindy and KC act the way they do because of him. He plays the fool and the victim -- he is neither. He is quite devious and the biggest liar of the bunch and has been fooling & flying under the radar for a long time.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I am not giving anybody a pass here. I thought we were talking about A family dynamics. I'm saying within that family, George seems to get a pass. KC would rather talk to George, rather see George, because she can't talk to her mother. Her mother gets angry and defensive because she's had it up to here dealing with her daughter and husband, but George is Mr. Cool to Casey. All the blame gets put on Cindy when Casey gets upset.

From reading the emails between Cindy's brother and mother, it sounds like he's had a ton of problems including spending/gambling addiction. Cindy's brother calls him a "loser" and says he ruined his sister's life. Coupled with the supposed "sicknes" in George's family, it sounds like he's a guy not without issues.

Please remember, this is my theory. Everybody's got one, right?

ITA that by this point, during this visit, CA appears at first less willing than GA to just go along w KC's lies as in the past. I'm saying it appears to me in this instance that CA is the one (finally!) closer to risking her daughter's wrath by asking the tougher questions (it's about time!) and I'd even go as far as to add that KC in fact chose a visit w GA eg precisely because she knows he can be more easily manipulated at this point. GA was previously employed in the past and I can only hazard a guess by saying living w a very controlling wife and the sick dynamics between his wife and daughter for so many years may have contributed to his unhappiness. It's clear who wore the pants and so I also have to wonder how he put up w it all these years too. JMO

 

[OneLostGrl]

What a lot of people see in Cindy as a caretaker, supporting the whole family, that all comes at a cost. She does not do these things out of the kindness of her heart, it comes across that way but in reality it is all about ownership and manipulation. There are strings attatched to everything she does for you. I know people like this and to outsiders it looks like they are just great people, taking everything on, the reality is so much different.

so true!

 

[kiki the parrot]

Yes, I see what she's doing there and how she is trying to control them and they step back so as to maintain contact with her. But I mean just in general something is weird about GA. He is part of this family dynamic also, it wasn't just Cindy's actions that made this whole family this way. He wasn't just a passive creature who just laid there innocently while the rest of the family went off the rails, IMO. Or maybe he has always been this way to try to avoid having to contribute to the family (no steady job, no willingness to do something about Casey before it was too late, falling for the Nigerian scam, etc.). I don't see him contributing anything to the family monetarily or otherwise. He should be doing something. And he has a temper, so he could probably stand up to Cindy if he really wanted to IMO.

By the time Caylee was born, it was too late IMO. Casey was already the way she was and with a baby she had the ultimate key to control her parents. After that they couldn't really do anything with her anymore unless they had called the police whenever she stole money. They needed to nip her in the bud when she was a kid and they didn't, apparently.

Agree totally w bolded! Way, waaayyyy too late (yathink!) Then not only did Caylee create a power shift between these two women, but when GA "messes up" himself (a few times) CA breaks all the rules and leans on their daughter as a confidante--which put KC in an even greater position of power and put GA in an even more impotent position than before stripping him of whatever respect or authority he may once have had. KC uses this to her total advantage--and says it all when she said, "I should've been stopped a long time ago." A statement, as I've pointed out though, that reveals both a weakness of conscience, and a consciousness of guilt. JMO

 

[OneLostGrl]

The joy or curse of each family lies within the leadership from within that it has.

If Cindy is as you all think .... then the result is what it is.

I see these people to be only as sick as their secrets. Whatever they may be.

Sometimes people are just sick. Why is it assumed a family like this must have secrets, why is it easier for some people to look for crazy explanations and excuses when there doesn't have to be a reason?! Often people are just messed up for no reason. And if those same people are taught it's OK to lie, steal and cheat- well, they are not being taught the rules we as a society must reasonably follow in order to grow up to be successful in any sense of the word.

It's like the people who when they find out someone has depression, say "You have such a good life, what are you depressed about?!" "What is wrong with you, snap out of it" Like there has to be a reason-It's an ILLNESS the symptoms are not always going to be situational- at times how they feel about themselves and those around them isn't going to be understood or even logical to outsiders- but it is what it is- they don't have to have a horrible secret they are covering up.

I was a complete screw up by the time I was 13 years old and there was no reason other than I had a Borderline mother, an ASPD step-father and an undiagnosed mental illness. It happens to lots of us!

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't understand all the hoopla over her faces & anguish in the tape. I know plenty of people who have tempers & make faces/fists over getting their point across, expressing their frustrations........And, they certainly aren't capable of murder!

Who among us does not know people who literally have put their fist thru a wall or something similar, under extreme circumstances? I just don't feel this is relative to her "instantly" being guilty?

It's the quiet ones that don't show emotions, that frighten me....the passive aggressive ones!:eek:

Like Lee.. his ability to appear and speak to others as if calm as he is completely out of control is interesting. MO

 

[OneLostGrl]

Not everyone from a disordered parent suffers. Sometimes some of the best of you actually comes from that parent and with the help of the other parent and family ... you do great.

I'm a little hyper.

But I haven't hit the secret manic button yet for the launch.

I have always been very proud of my mother. I'm sure that is due to the great work my father, maternal grandmother and paternal aunt and uncle did.

There are different types and degrees of dysfunction. Obviously you were somewhat lucky- you had another parent and that other parent cared. You had family, outsiders who cared and obviously stepped up. Most are not so lucky.

The nature of what I see in Cindy, and what my own mother is like, you absolutely do suffer- you have no choice because you are belittled and ignored and neglected emotionally, you are taught you cannot BE anything good, ever. You are always, always, even when they are in a loving mood, not good enough or smart enough or pretty enough. Nothing you choose to do (without their stepping in and controling the situation) is good or just.

Your emotions never matter, nobody cares how you feel or what you want.. it's all about the disordered parent, always! And sometimes out of the blue, because they are having issues, you don't have to do anything to provoke it and suddenly you are hated. If in that moment they decide you are "just like" their spouse or their boss or whoever- watch it! We are there to serve their needs, their "drug of choice", their supply. They need us and the way they treat us in order to feel anything good about themselves. And they do it all with a "smile" on their face to appear normal and loving to outsiders.

 

[OneLostGrl]

See I completly disagree with this. CA does not call KC out on anything, and she has not helped her at all she has enabled her. I see people refer back to the first phone call from the jail when KC says you dont know what my involvement is? as a way to clue CA in, well it was a clue a clue to put CA back in her place and feel the guilt, and guess what, it worked. I have seen numerous times after the initial 911 call for CA to call KC out on her lies and she goes the other way. There are some really good posts on this topic in this thread. They describe CA's personality to a T.

Yup! Casey knew just how to act to get Cindy to step down and start calling her "sweetheart". THAT is manipulation at it's finest!

 

[OneLostGrl]

A frustrated and angry Casey (above), an angry and frustrated George, Casey seconds later (still yelling at her parents), and George seconds later (hosing down protesters).

While George does appear shocked or whatever it's Cindy that looks angry in that picture
IMO

 

[OneLostGrl]

And having described CA's personality to a T - where does this take us? It is extremely interesting to discuss to be sure. And many wonderful posts have been written here. Much has been learned here and if nothing else - it has been a wonderful teacher and possibly a pretty darn good therapist for many too. Excellent teachers here for sure. :thumb:

How NOT to parent! Or if you want a Casey on your hands, how TO parent .

 

[maur33]

There are different types and degrees of dysfunction. Obviously you were somewhat lucky- you had another parent and that other parent cared. You had family, outsiders who cared and obviously stepped up. Most are not so lucky.

The nature of what I see in Cindy, and what my own mother is like, you absolutely do suffer- you have no choice because you are belittled and ignored and neglected emotionally, you are taught you cannot BE anything good, ever. You are always, always, even when they are in a loving mood, not good enough or smart enough or pretty enough. Nothing you choose to do (without their stepping in and controling the situation) is good or just.
Your emotions never matter, nobody cares how you feel or what you want.. it's all about the disordered parent, always! And sometimes out of the blue, because they are having issues, you don't have to do anything to provoke it and suddenly you are hated. If in that moment they decide you are "just like" their spouse or their boss or whoever- watch it! We are there to serve their needs, their "drug of choice", their supply. They need us and the way they treat us in order to feel anything good about themselves. And they do it all with a "smile" on their face to appear normal and loving to outsiders.

Very good analysis.

It's almost like they erase you, like you are not a separate person and no matter how hard you try to get away it takes a strong will and significant physical distance to truly escape this type of parenting.

 

[doogiesgirl]

There are different types and degrees of dysfunction. Obviously you were somewhat lucky- you had another parent and that other parent cared. You had family, outsiders who cared and obviously stepped up. Most are not so lucky.

The nature of what I see in Cindy, and what my own mother is like, you absolutely do suffer- you have no choice because you are belittled and ignored and neglected emotionally, you are taught you cannot BE anything good, ever. You are always, always, even when they are in a loving mood, not good enough or smart enough or pretty enough. Nothing you choose to do (without their stepping in and controling the situation) is good or just.

Your emotions never matter, nobody cares how you feel or what you want.. it's all about the disordered parent, always! And sometimes out of the blue, because they are having issues, you don't have to do anything to provoke it and suddenly you are hated. If in that moment they decide you are "just like" their spouse or their boss or whoever- watch it! We are there to serve their needs, their "drug of choice", their supply. They need us and the way they treat us in order to feel anything good about themselves. And they do it all with a "smile" on their face to appear normal and loving to outsiders.

OneLostGirl- I am beginning to wonder if my mother had a daughter that I don't know about! Sounds like you are describing my mother. Boy how i wish you and I could have a long private pow wow. I call my mother a "force of nature". Hey, we survived sister. doogiesgirl

 

[BetsyB]

If Casey is a sociopath, and like all of you say, sociopathy is passed down from generation to generation. Wouldn't Caylee end up growing up to be a sociopath?

I am the daughter of a sociopath. I haven't read any clear-cut evidence that it's passed generationally. None of my sibs are sociopaths; however, one does have a son who is.

That son was raised in the same home as my sociopath father, who was his father figure.

When examining the nature v. nurture aspects of personality disorders, it's pretty clear that some people are genetically predisposed. Being raised by someone conscienceless (in other words, taught the tricks of the trade) surely plays into it.

I don't know why my sibs and I aren't sociopaths. I do know that we each have our own issues, some bigger, some smaller. None of us escaped unscathed---but no, it's not clearly passed from one generation to the next.

 

[debs]

While George does appear shocked or whatever it's Cindy that looks angry in that picture
IMO

It was hard to capture just the one frame of the video. This was the famous "Cindy wielding the bat on the driveway" episode. They were both quite distraught that protesters were bugging them that night. But George was clearly the aggressor, Cindy the appeaser/Joan of Arc martyr. And then seconds later, he was hosing down the crowd with that look on his face.

 

[reeseeva]

While George does appear shocked or whatever it's Cindy that looks angry in that picture
IMO

Watching the video, my observations of Cindy were, especially when she has her hands to her mouth, she is thinking, "OMG, she really IS, what I have said & thought, & never wanted to believe" She keeps watching KC, listening to what she is saying, & the look on her face is as though she is seeing the Monster for the first time......horror:furious:......acceptance of the rumours & that Caylee is gone! She recovers briefly, & then, hands to the face, again she sees her, and it appears too much for her to handle. She has to look away, gets up & walks away.... the reality is too much to bear!

Just my observations, but I could actually feel what she was thinking!