Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[Brini]

Just one more note:

But I do have a nagging question about PPD and PPP (yes, I KNOW they are radically different): Can symptoms vary from one individual to another? For example, one person could be lethargic (gee, could 1 hour of sleep a day cause that?) whereas, another person could be agitated and manic?

I doubt that that will fly because:

1) There is no evidence that KC really ever had a miscarriage.

2) Never heard of a manic PPD or PPP sufferer.

3) KC wasn't manic. She partied hearty, but when she wanted to be calm, she consistently was. Like during questioning.

Also, she lied and stole for years before this "miscarriage."

 

[reeseeva]

Such a lovely sentiment Reeseeva. We seem to be few and far between on this board, even at this time of year. Sending thoughts and prayers.

Thank for taking the time to put yourself in their world at this time of year!

 

[TURBOTHINK]

We're not even sure she had ONE seizure. No records. Just a rumor.

Jesse G told LE about it in his interview. I am sure he would not have told about taking her to the hospital for it and all about the drugs/alcohol they used the night before if it had not been real.

 

[Brini]

Jesse G told LE about it in his interview. I am sure he would not have told about taking her to the hospital for it and all about the drugs/alcohol they used the night before if it had not been real.

Good point! I think he's a truthful person, too.

 

[Chemaster]

I found the following summary of a typical sociopath at http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Wow ..... does CA share some of these?

Profile of the Sociopath

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Just had to write my thoughts for the Anthony's on this sad Holiday. Regardless of what anyone might think of them, they were loving grandparents. I see them surrounded by everything that was Caylee, her room, toys, outside playhouse, the pool, child-sized picnic table & hundreds of her playthings. She was their world, & I can't imagine what it must be like to wake every morning in the presence of all of what WAS her!, & knowing it will be nevermore. It is tragic & more than a nightmare!

So, on this Christmas Eve, I feel we should pray for them in any way you can. Right or wrong, with all their human frailities, they are suffering more than I would ever want to imagine.

I agree. What they are going through is unimaginable. It's easy for all of us to judge from the outside, when we are not (and God, hopefully never) have been in their shoes. I also agree that Caylee's life was one of all her needs met by her grandparents and I believe both emotionally and her physical needs. Albeit, I may not like the way Cindy and George have enabled Casey to get away with so much....I cannot judge that very much either because I have no knowledge if in fact they have tried other means as interventions through the course of Casey's teen years, with therapy, etc.? Regardless, I pray for their healing and that they may find comfort in knowing that Caylee loved them very much. That much was clearly obvious in the video's. Truly sad.

 

[passionflower]

I would say that all the A family has most of the traits.............IMO

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

In explanation:

I think you took out your frustrations about people saying she is psychotic on me.

Some time back, you wrote a reply to my question of: Can post-partum depression or psychosis be used by the defense?

You responded: Have you ever talked to anyone who is psychotic??? She is not psychotic!!!

It seemed like you were screaming at me, when I did not say she was psychotic.

Anyway, thanks for the apology. I understand more than you know.

In response to your question, the answer is yes. However, Casey does not fit the criteria of PPP. (Post Partum Psychosis) This occurs usually within a few days after a birth. Hormone fluctuations in misscarriages can also cause postpartum depression but it is a rare case in which one would have PPP after a misscarriage. Also, Casey had many problomatic and troubled personality traits long before Caylee was born. Her pathological lying, narcissitic behaviors, quitting high school, lying to Jesse about who Caylee's father is, etc. I doubt very much this would ever fly in a courtroom with Casey Anthony's defense.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

That it could come up at trial: that's what I asked, if the defense could possibly try to use it. I guess we will see.

My thoughts are the defense will not utilize any "insanity" defenses unless Casey admits guilt. I believe they are building thier case on "she is innocent" and someone else killed Caylee. Regardless, if they do use a defense of a mental disorder....say in an agreed plea bargained case...first the plea bargain would have to be approved by the Prosecution and I'm not sure that will happen....and secondly....the bottom line will be...did she have the capability to know right from wrong. And we all know the answer to that.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

My thoughts on this are the defense would have to come out and say yes, KC did this and these are the reasons why, and I don't see that happening, she is going to stick to the story she has spinned.

Bingo. Quote from today's article "Baez has also set up a new tip line to receive leads that he believes will confirm his client did not kill the girl. The number for the tip line has not yet been released."
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20081224/BREAKINGNEWS/81224002/1006/NEWS01

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Lavanda Dolce don't be sorry I had to laugh myself when I read it back! LOL In any case I have 2 family members who are monsterous Narcissists. But for the average person-you know they may just think, hey that person is awfully self centered etc. ya know?!

Albeit, it is Christmas time...but every single Christmas I still can't get past the time my mom pushed my five year old daughter away from her in front of the Christmas tree and said "no, honey. gramma wants a picture of myself"...and then proceeded to tell me to be sure to focus the camera right so that I can get her "beautiful legs" in the pic." Ok. Enough by me. It's Christmas Eve. Fact is, I could have an entire forum just on things she has done...and still does. A true narcissist. Even 900 miles apart...I still live it each day. lol

 

[OneLostGrl]

I believe her upbringing "enabled her further" with her actions, as opposed to blaming it on her upbringing. There are too many mulitple children families in which all the children are abused and perhaps only one goes on to be a problem in society. Thus, it is complicated to blame upbringing when the remaining children are good citizens of society. I hope that makes sense. When each one of us have our own brains and know right from wrong, we are responsible for our own actions.

Our backgrounds and history and trauma's that we've experienced really shouldn't play a factor in the "Act of Murder/ or Crime"...it can play a factor in how one perceives others, etc. (example: a neglected child may possess feelings of insecurity, depression, withdrawl, etc....and sometimes all of their lives. However, that same child knows right from wrong...so if they murdered another human...how can one blame that on their upbringing?)

There are many folks who suffer tragedies, mental illness, personality disorders, post traumatic stress, hardships and pain....and they do not go on to commit an act of murder....and in a lot of cases...never an act of any crime. Hope this makes sense.

:clap::clap::clap:

It makes wonderful sense and I agree with you 100%! If I murder my son it is because I am a murderer, not because I have Bipolar (and the co-morbid crap that goes with it) or because I had a scum bag for a mother! I don't care WHAT my diagnosis is, or how horrible my life was.. if I kill someone I need to be removed from society. Forever.

.

 

[OneLostGrl]

blackwatch,

i don't buy the "temporary insanity" defense either. Point being..if she did have a breakdown and killed caylee even if by accident in a fit of rage...or an overdose of chloroform. Once the body "comes back down to normal"....it would have been reported. One who had temporary insanity would not have carried on for 31 days of partying, laughing, etc. A good example of temporary insanity is andrea yates.

ita!!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Excellent post and very accurate. Not everyone who has mental illness or disorders commits crimes of murder...or crimes, in general. I'm sorry to learn you have suffered with psychosis and I have always believed it is much more common than people want to share. Especially with my firm belief in post partum psychosis. Hormones amuck can play a big role in this and it can happen to anyone. Thanks for sharing.

Ohh how I agree!! I was "sick" my entire life, I have always had issues. But after my son was born is when my Bipolar really kicked in. I became psychotic, learned the meaning of rapid cycling with mixed episodes. I really feel like my hormones caused my Bipolar to kick into over-drive.

Very scary.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Interview with Pat Brown, criminal profiler, about Casey's psychopathy right now on Today Show. VERY interesting. People in other time zones should be able to see this in the next hour or so. msnbc.com puts up links to these interviews within an hour or so.

Excellent interview! Interesting insight into Casey's mind.

I'll come back and post the link as soon as it's up, or if somebody else catches the link, please post.

Thanks! Can't wait to see it! I wonder how our "arm chair psychology," compares to what Pat has to say!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Since this thread is about the family, my gut reaction to Cindy is "that woman is evil."

i think casey grew up in an environment where evil was always around. science says a kind act makes even strangers who merely witness the act feel better; unfortunately, i would guess an act of evil would have the opposite effect.

How or Why is Casey evil? I personally think it can be purely organic, purely environmental or anywhere on the scale between. She will be studied for the next 50 years.

In my personal experience, I have only met one person who was "born" evil. The rest were, in my opinion, "made" evil. I have only met one child that seemed to be "born wrong" and seemed scary evil. I would not have been surprised to learn that child had an organic default in her brain. Her parents were extremely kind and compassionate. I do not get the kind and compassionate vibe from Cindy in the least....


My main point is, casey's # 1 role model / influence would have been dear old mom.

ITA! I think Cindy caused a lot of psychological damage to Casey.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Bolding mine

I'm always horrified and amazed that so-called adults can be so cruel and, so "seemingly" naiive, when it comes to mental illness. Otherwise kind, caring, compassionate people will disbelieve there are people who cannot help themselves, even going so far as to ridicule. I never could figure out why they find it so hard to believe there is such a thing as "brain disease" when they believe in "heart disease". A disease is a disease and people need to get over their OWN uncomfortable feelings about it. Truth be known, there is probably a large percentage of the so-called "normals" hiding their own flaws.

That said, I believe Casey was never the "coddled princess" people believe she was. Oh, yes, Cindy probably did cover for her, but in my opinion it was only to maintain Cindy's projected image of the perfect family. God forbid anything of hers wasn't perfect. I further believe Casey was verbally abused, if not physically, and we've seen examples of that. We've also seen pictures on national tv of the gps weilding baseball bats and hammers. I have no reason to believe Casey's home life was a bowl of cherries or that she was treated like a princess. Casey was the pariah, in my opinion, and Lee was the good child, the mediator. Casey learned to lie, not only at her mother's knee, but because she had to for self preservation. Cindy does not appear to be the type that allows anyone to hold opions not approved by her, nor do I think, would she allow Casey to lead her own life if it didn't correspond to Cindy's ideas of how life should be led.

My socio daughter does not allow anyone to toss cigarette butts on her lawn - we have to smoke outside - because that is not the IMAGE she wants to portray, cigarette butts on the lawn are "so" low class. Yet, I wonder if the neighbors saw the repo man take away her car (twice), or the water company stand in front of the house, pull up the cover, and shut off her water. Is this sounding familiar? I believe Casey was scared to death of Cindy and in my opinion, so is the rest of the family.

I don't think Casey was allowed to be her own person, she was denigrated, and she was in constant fear of gaining her mother's disapproval - so, yeah, she developed issues and we see where these issues led. I believe she may have been in a red rage (IF she killed Caylee) and, when she came back to herself, was too frightened of her mother to admit it, hence the lies. However, she did try calling George and Cindy, but they didn't answer, no help there. She just winged it, too afraid of her mother to tell the truth.

I don't know what to make of the searchs. I probably have similar searchs on my computer, but I never killed anyone. I probably have worse searchs, come to think of it. I also have an interesting son who uses my computer - God knows what LE might find on my machine. But, that wouldn't mean "I" was the guilty party.

Don't get me wrong - I do think Casey killed her daughter, but I don't think she's the monster we all think she is. There are some other scenerios playing around in my head. The only thing I do know for SURE is Caylee's dead and will not go to bed anticipating a visit from Santa. Caylee will not wake up in the morning with awe and wonder shining from her eyes and that is sad beyond words.

Sorry to be so long winded. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!

My opinion only

Great post! I agree with you about Cindy and the damage she caused Casey.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Do you think it's possible that you read my questions before and you were thinking about this?

I asked this question BEFORE on the Psych. 2 thread, Post #190:

10-25-2008, 09:19 PM
concentric
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 776

I put forth this question on some other threads here and sorry if it has already been addressed. I can really see the defense trying to get her ruled insane by undiagnosed post-partum psychosis; to favorably compound the issue, they could cite the miscarriage she told her friend about at the party.
---------------------

I also asked if the defense could use PPD. I never said she was psychotic. Only wondered if the defense could use it.

My gosh, let it go! My post about Psychosis wasn't even refering to any specific person.. I was speaking in general terms, "some people say she's psychotic". I didn't even know that you posted anything having to do with psychosis until you responded to my post thinking that I was talking about you. You assumed my post was refering to you but it wasn't. There are so many nicknames and changing avatars on here I can't even keep up with who said what.

I told you I am sorry if I hurt your feelings and I honestly am- I would never knowingly hurt someone. But why do you want to keep holding onto this- mentioning it every time you post on this thread? I think the best thing to do would be to just move on because I have no other way to tell you that I am sorry.

 

[OneLostGrl]

In explanation:

I think you took out your frustrations about people saying she is psychotic on me.

Some time back, you wrote a reply to my question of: Can post-partum depression or psychosis be used by the defense?

You responded: Have you ever talked to anyone who is psychotic??? She is not psychotic!!!

It seemed like you were screaming at me, when I did not say she was psychotic.

Anyway, thanks for the apology. I understand more than you know.

My response was to the foolishness of the idea of such a defense! Not to you writing it or asking it. I was like OMG, here Jose goes wanting to use this as a defense, I didn't say "oh concentric is wrong" or anything like that. I was outraged that the defense would attempt such a thing- I was "yelling" at Jose for even thinking it!

It's hard at times to tell what a person means when they type things because you can't see facial expressions or arms thrown in the air or pointing (or not pointing) at a person.

My outrage was not directed toward you it was toward the "defense team". Again, I meant no harm and I am sorry that I upset you. :blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I also wonder if someone was already say bi-polar or had some other mental defect, if it would be enhanced or altered by that?

Oh - and not everyone who has an early miscarriage necessarily goes to the doctor...we also don't have KC's medical records to know whether or not she had a miscarriage. This is basically a supposition based on her statement regarding the miscarriage, not that anyone here believes her. I do believe that it could come up at trial...which is why I mentioned it.

I believe it can and does enhance an already present illness for some people. Doctors watch mothers for PPD and they watch mothers with a history of mental illness even closer because she is more likely to "get sick" because of her history.