Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7

[eddeva]

I see how you got mixe up - thanks for qualifying.

I thought this line here ends my entire input about jail:
NOW I no longer think it was only because of General Population but
I think there is a piece that is still hidden.
Colored in green is a separate thought.
Initially I assumed C&G helped clean up because they did not want KC in GP in Jail.
Now I believe the clean up had to do with something we do not yet know. because it is hidden.
I hope this makes the items I listed more sensible. IF I succeeded in clarification.
Maybe I did ramble on and it was unclear , sorry. :blowkiss:

don't worry about it songline, gawd knows i ramble on like it's compulsory

 

[Verité]

At first I thought that her parent helped clean up because I knew they would not want her in the General Pop.
WHAT is Lowell is it the name of a prison?
Why if she is under Protective Custody will jail feel like Honeymoon.
Sorry not well versed on jail stuff.

NOW I no longer think it was only because of General Population but I think their is a piece that is still hidden.

(Bolding mine)

I just gotta go back to Ur original post which I understood perfectly. . .but wondering why. . .since others didn't get that the issue of Gen Pop was tied to your original thought
"that her parents helped her clean up because" they didn't want her in Gen Pop. . .but "NOW" you no longer think that it is only becoz of Gen. Pop [that they helped clean up]
but that there's more [parents know] that's still hidden. Right?

What was so hard to understand? (Although I did appreciate the questioning which resulted in Cecy's fine post. . ..)

 

[songline]

(Bolding mine)

I just gotta go back to Ur original post which I understood perfectly. . .but wondering why. . .since others didn't get that the issue of Gen Pop was tied to your original thought
"that her parents helped her clean up because" they didn't want her in Gen Pop. . .but "NOW" you no longer think that it is only becoz of Gen. Pop [that they helped clean up]
but that there's more [parents know] that's still hidden. Right?

What was so hard to understand? (Although I did appreciate the questioning which resulted in Cecy's fine post. . ..)

I dont think it was hard at all - LOL Many understood it fine.
You sure did
:blowkiss:
sometimes people read fast and miss the point. sometimes it is innocent and sometimes not.

 

[eddeva]

I kinda have my eye on Lee for the moment

now how did i miss this?
... *evil grin* ...
i don't suppose you feel like sharing?

 

[songline]

don't worry about it songline, gawd knows i ramble on like it's compulsory

Not worried a bit
Many understood it just fine.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Your post helps us refocus by referring to the original intent of this thread. If one lawyer proposes NG by Reason of Insanity as a Defense, does that imply that this defendant committed the crime?

And, if the "lawyer in chief"[my term] refuses said defense strategy, is the question of sanity vs. insanity, with implicit disposition, a moot point--unless and until another attorney launches the NGBRofI defense?

Incidentally, let's move past the erroneous assumption that a defendant who is determined insane/NGBRofI is automatically placed in a State hospital. The Florida Supreme Court in their 9-28-06 Jury Instructions stipulate to the Jury:

"If your verdict is that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity because insane, that does not necessarily mean [he] [she] will be released
from custody. I must conduct further proceedings to determine if the defendant should be committed to a mental hospital, or given other outpatient treatment."

Umm, in a case of larceny or dealing drugs, or assault or something? Sure, they don't get sent off to the hospital. But murder? Yeah. if found NGBRI, the prisoner would indeed be sent to a hospital if the facility they are presently being held in has no place set aside for prisoners with sanity issues that need to be kept away from other prisoners. Some places simply use segregation, some jails have top of the line places right there on campus- and some, more often than not, ship 'em off to the hospital because they are not equipped to handle their issues within the jail. And there they will remain until they have been declared competent. Which may be never. Many of those who are found NGBRI spend more time commited than they probably would have spent in Prison.

:blowkiss:

 

[jjgram]

GREAT QUESTION:
If it is still hidden then it would have to be a psychic moment for me to reply.

1- Will we find out who Caylees Daddy is?
2- Will we find out how GA really lost his money?
3- Why is anyone paying for this fiasco? what is their
involvement
4- Hopefully LE is holding things close to the vest that we
still do not know.
5- Will we find out if Casey left Caylee with unsavory crowd.
which will open another can of worms?

I do not---- look only at what is obvious.....
I come from a long line of secret service man.

:clap::clap::clap:

I think these questions ARE IMPORTANT !!!

you KNOW WHY>>>>>>>>>>> ?????

because .... ole shinny JB is going to say.....

the Baby Daddy.... might have done it.....:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

E T C ! ! ! !! = Just to cause


Cause...... that is what it is about....

for JB = " D O U B T ! ? ? ? "

KC is :dance::liar: with out a DOUBT ! ! ! !

Pray that the TRUTH & EVIDENCE will PROVE = SHOW the

jury.... this whole tangled = SICK = web of lies and MIS/truths...

1/2 truths..... what ever they want to call them

still = equals 1 ONE Dead :angel2::baby:= CAYLEE ! ! !

and in my books...
and in THE BOOK = BIBLE that equals = NOT ACCEPTABLE ! ! !

JMO

God Bless !
jjgram

 

[songline]

Your post helps us refocus by referring to the original intent of this thread. If one lawyer proposes NG by Reason of Insanity as a Defense, does that imply that this defendant committed the crime?

And, if the "lawyer in chief"[my term] refuses said defense strategy, is the question of sanity vs. insanity, with implicit disposition, a moot point--unless and until another attorney launches the NGBRofI defense?

Incidentally, let's move past the erroneous assumption that a defendant who is determined insane/NGBRofI is automatically placed in a State hospital. The Florida Supreme Court in their 9-28-06 Jury Instructions stipulate to the Jury:

"If your verdict is that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity because insane, that does not necessarily mean [he] [she] will be released from custody. I must conduct further proceedings to determine if the defendant should be committed to a mental hospital, or given other outpatient treatment."

I think you have good questions and I do think this case is very unique.
Unfortunately I am afraid with the attorney she has in charge who only got his degree in 2006 he will have no platform from which to draw.
As we know since she knows right from wrong she cant plead insane.
Also unfortunately, given how she has been raised A great attorney would definitely play the Mental Health Card.
Which would not mean that she gets a pass or slap on the wrist.
The answer to your Q is YES once you go to - by reason of insanity. You are saying "did it because insane" and then blah, blah, blah the story - data of the case.
But JB is not qualified and a qualified attorney who can handle DP would play the mental health card. MOO

I wonder what attorney will want inexperienced JB to tell them how to do this?
Many do respect their License to practice.
I wonder if this will not be a retrial in the end if JB keeps on controlling the case.

She may not go to any mental facility; her case is not trialed as a mental case;
she may be best off in a regular prison. And she is not going to fall between the cracks
because this case is so highly visible.

 

[Verité]

Umm, in a case of larceny or dealing drugs, or assault or something? Sure, they don't get sent off to the hospital. But murder? Yeah. if found NGBRI, the prisoner would indeed be sent to a hospital if the facility they are presently being held in has no place set aside for prisoners with sanity issues that need to be kept away from other prisoners. Some places simply use segregation, some jails have top of the line places right there on campus- and some, more often than not, ship 'em off to the hospital because they are not equipped to handle their issues within the jail. And there they will remain until they have been declared competent. Which may be never. Many of those who are found NGBRI spend more time commited than they probably would have spent in Prison.

:blowkiss:

Thanks for calling attention to my omission of the critical issue in cases of homicide where the defense is NGBRI at the time of commission of the crime.
I'm doubtful that a Court would rule that, in such an instance when the defendant is found to have regained sanity by the time of the penalty phase,
that s/he would be sentenced to a State hospital, but perhaps. . . .

I can't think of any actual cases as an example, only hypothetical ones, and
it all remains to be seen in whatever the eventual defense strategy is in the case of KC.

 

[songline]

:clap::clap::clap:

I think these questions ARE IMPORTANT !!!

you KNOW WHY>>>>>>>>>>> ?????

because .... ole shinny JB is going to say.....

the Baby Daddy.... might have done it.....:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

E T C ! ! ! !! = Just to cause


Cause...... that is what it is about....

for JB = " D O U B T ! ? ? ? "

KC is :dance::liar: with out a DOUBT ! ! ! !

Pray that the TRUTH & EVIDENCE will PROVE = SHOW the

jury.... this whole tangled = SICK = web of lies and MIS/truths...

1/2 truths..... what ever they want to call them

still = equals 1 ONE Dead :angel2::baby:= CAYLEE ! ! !

and in my books...
and in THE BOOK = BIBLE that equals = NOT ACCEPTABLE ! ! !

JMO

God Bless !
jjgram

Thank you jjgram: I love the way you talk, Ilove the way you walk - funny girl

No sweetie it is not acceptable at all.

and I am Mad as hell at her GP they deleted Caylee and they run around without even mentioning her.

But I hope that LE has something we do not know.
I hope they are looking under every rock for something they may have missed.
and I doubt that anyone will say Baby Daddy did it. They are hiding that pic as if it is GOLD.

It is like a sweter with a loose thread...I want to pull on it and let it all unravel......
I do not want to see a re trial....

 

[Verité]

Unfortunately I am afraid with the attorney she has in charge who only got
But JB is not qualified and a qualified attorney who can handle DP would play the mental health card. MOO

I wonder what attorney will want inexperienced JB to tell them how to do this?
Many do respect their License to practice.
I wonder if this will not be a retrial in the end if JB keeps on controlling the case.

That's why I keep expecting logic in what I call The Plan, or the goal of
eventual acquittal due to ineffective counsel--although I can't imagine
JB laying his ego on the line for this--so I continue to keep an open mind. :

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yours is the attitude necessary for what is called "sleuthing" (i.e. depth investigation and scrutiny whether by LE, mental health, or lay examiners).
(It is also called "keeping an open mind.") This is in contrast to what is known as "confirmatory bias," i.e. an overly-subjective judgment where all incoming
information is screened-out and rejected if it doesn't conform to the original judgment which has become rigid and inflexible over time, and tenaciously
held with an over-determined (excessive) level of emotion.

I don't know, I tend to think of it as facing reality, seeing things for what they are. After almost a year of reading documents, watching video's, having new information verify what's been thought all along about behaviors of players? Yup, my mind is indeed made up about a couple of things.. one of those things is Casey's sanity. I wasn't always so sure- I hanven't always felt so sure of her sanity. See.. the thing with critical thinking is that it's point is to come to an eventual well-justified , rational conclusion based on information that is probable. Not to ignore the things that are most obvious and may be staring you in the face.

Should I keep an open mind about what happened to the twin towers when there is obvious and clear evidence of what destroyed those buildings? hmm, maybe it was a bomb? :waitasec: Why try to fill a round hole with a square peg. I have seen the damage that bombs create and know enough to be able to say with complete confidence that (while I can't fly a plane or set off a bomb) there is no way a bomb caused that destruction. Besides, I saw the video's of the planes crashing with my own eyes. I don't care who you are.. it is what it is!

If my issue were "confirmatory bias" and I were rigid or inflexible in regard to this case one would expect to hear me speaking about how I believe Casey is guilty of killing her daughter. And one would expect I'd be running around with the incest rumors, the "Casey is a drug addict" and was drugging Caylee with Xanax or Cloroform rumors. One would expect I'd be on the "Casey was an Escort" bandwagon. I'd be claiming Casey is a Psychopath/Sociopath.. i'd be playing the she is "all bad" game.. if my issue were anything close to "confirmatory bias". When the reality is, I am not even convinced she had anything to do with Caylee's death. Kinda shoots your confirmatory bias theory in the foot. :blowkiss:

This is the last post I am going to respond to of yours, I saw ya coming..

 

[OneLostGrl]

Thanks for calling attention to my omission of the critical issue in cases of homicide where the defense is NGBRI at the time of commission of the crime.
I'm doubtful that a Court would rule that, in such an instance when the defendant is found to have regained sanity by the time of the penalty phase,
that s/he would be sentenced to a State hospital, but perhaps. . . .

I can't think of any actual cases as an example, only hypothetical ones, and
it all remains to be seen in whatever the eventual defense strategy is in the case of KC.

Your and Songline's posts that I was responding to were about her being insane NOW and when she may have commited the crime. that she "HAD to be insane". I responded to that! No, it really doesn't remain to be seen because she is pleading NOT guilty, she says she had nothing to do with it so her sanity or insanity really have nothing to do with anything. My problem is with the misconception that she HAD TO have been insane in order for her to murder her child because that is simply UNtrue! :wave:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think you have good questions and I do think this case is very unique.
Unfortunately I am afraid with the attorney she has in charge who only got his degree in 2006 he will have no platform from which to draw.
As we know since she knows right from wrong she cant plead insane.
Also unfortunately, given how she has been raised A great attorney would definitely play the Mental Health Card.
Which would not mean that she gets a pass or slap on the wrist.
The answer to your Q is YES once you go to - by reason of insanity. You are saying "did it because insane" and then blah, blah, blah the story - data of the case.
But JB is not qualified and a qualified attorney who can handle DP would play the mental health card. MOO

I wonder what attorney will want inexperienced JB to tell them how to do this?
Many do respect their License to practice.
I wonder if this will not be a retrial in the end if JB keeps on controlling the case.

She may not go to any mental facility; her case is not trialed as a mental case;
she may be best off in a regular prison. And she is not going to fall between the cracks
because this case is so highly visible.

But if she won't let him then he cannot "play the mental health card". He has to do what she wants him to. My problem with him, with this, is that I'm afraid he is keeping things from her (like how strong and the amount of the evidence there may be against her, etc making her think the case is winable when it is not) and that may be why she won't plea. That worries me. HE worries me.

 

[songline]

Made up minds and dug in heals are one in the same. Open minds are more supple but firm and steady.
You can grow many possibilities in a garden that is often plowed and you can grow nothing much in a garden filled with rocks.

THANK YOU TO ALL WHO CHOSE AN OPEN MIND
because the only thing that really matters is not that you are right but that there is justice
for the Children who do not have a voice.

It is not as if Casey is not staying in jail she is. At the end of the day there is definite at least neglect
and more.
It is more then that, and I am willing to see it with eyes wide open.
Good night. :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

That's why I keep expecting logic in what I call The Plan, or the goal of
eventual acquittal due to ineffective counsel--although I can't imagine
JB laying his ego on the line for this--so I continue to keep an open mind. :

It is unfortunate but there is no logic in the entire case. There are secrets and lies.
There is control and manipulation. There is covert underhanded BS in short whenever you think you finally understand - remember there is so much we do NOT know.
And while she is not insane the way we all understand it she has a deep mental problem.
But so do all the "A"s. And yes a good Attorney can play a mental health card..
But the posters are right if she knows right from wrong it can not be an insanity plea.
YET it is so obvious that playing her hand the way she thinks it should be or was told by JB, or Daddy.
Is a no win situation...
My question to her is what would you prefer 20 years or LWOP. OR ELSE TALK!!!.
But even GA would now be afraid of her talking...What will she say?:
I assume "Dad advised me that the longer I wait, the less they find and pin it on me, and he cleaned up"

JB got the case of a life time, some attorney Waite till they are old and gray to get such a visible case.
He will hold on to it with is last breath; it is not about Casey for him, NOT.

I do not know why Daddy does not go to visit Casey with a computer like JB does so they can talk
without being taped.
I think Daddy need to let her know how deep she is in this. He may not want to worry her, and JB
may be telling her there is still no fingerprints that tie you to the deed, you are cool.
BUT DAD SHOULD BE DAD and not some actor for the public when all of this is going on. :bang:
And if KC is not out as CA hopes she will be - Cindy may talk...And boy she may say a lot.
that angry hateful face did not happen in one year. She has a lot stored.

 

[Verité]

I can't think of any actual cases as an example, only hypothetical ones, and
it all remains to be seen in whatever the eventual defense strategy is in the case of KC.

Let me be so bold as to quote myself. . .and clarify my meaning of that which remains to be seen. . .in the case of KC. Reality dictates that "it all" remains to be seen.

Without psychic abilities (and I sure don't have those), I can't forsee this entire case from the perspective of the Court/trier of fact, nor can I see all the evidence
accumulated in toto by the prosecution, nor that which hasn't been revealed strategically by the defense, nor whether there will be an acquittal based on jury decision,
Appellate reversal, or acts of God.

If anyone is offended by my perception of reality, disappointment is expressed in advance.

 

[OneLostGrl]

thank you for asking eddeva and not assuming -- it makes for intelligent conversation. :blowkiss:

I was asked what do I think is still missing ? since I had said there are still important pieces missing to tie the murderer to the deed.
IT WAS SEPERATE from how to house a prisoner, I know nothing about jail rules. POST # 294

I replied that it was a good question but I am not a psychic.
However I listed the areas that we should be looking perhaps it would lead to it.
this was the list:
1- Will we find out who Caylees Daddy is?
How do we know that hiding this is not hiding a lot more?
2- Will we find out how GA really lost his money?
How do we know that hiding this is not the seed for the questionable folk around?
3- Why is anyone paying for this fiasco? what is their involvement
WHY are they paying WHY? hmmmm
4- Hopefully LE is holding things close to the vest that we still do not know.
If they are holding things close to their vest MORE POWER TO THEM.
5- Will we find out if Casey left Caylee with unsavory crowd.
which will open another can of worms?
Was Caylee left in a Bordello while Casey was with a john?
Was Caylee with a Drug Dealer while Casey was moving products in the club - thus those party photos?

I do not---- look only at what is obvious..... I come from a long line of secret service man. No kidding.

To add to all of that. Since this is the insanity thread:
The Law is Clear if you know right from wrong you can not be trialled as insane.
but IF IF IF your own family brought the riff raff home that may have been a part of ending
Caylees life. I do not care what the law is....
There has to be a provision for someone/Casey that is raised in a no win situation.
Maybe there isn't
I am not trying to cover for Casey - I am hoping for justice.

Bold is mine..

Maybe you don't care what the law is but it is the law. Everyone, including Casey must follow the law or face the consequences.. regardless of how sh!tty a family life she had. There are lots of people who come from homes like this.. who come from FAR worse homes. Should there be "provisions" for them too? Half the people in prison wouldn't BE in prison if there were provisions such as the type you are suggesting.

Laws are in place for a reason. We can't simply disregard them because they don't fit with what we think they should be. Justice isn't served when people are not held accountable for their crimes against society... when they are allowed to simply walk away from the consequences of their own behaviors. People turning a blind eye to their unacceptable behaviors like that is how many of them end up the way they do to begin with.

Nobody is going to make an exception for Casey Anthony because her mom is a lying, drama craving lunatic and her father is a lying, stealing, lazy lunatic. The system doesn't work that way. thank G0d!

 

[Verité]

. . .original intent of this thread is: If one lawyer proposes NG by Reason of Insanity as a Defense, does that imply that this defendant committed the crime?

This doesn't say the reverse, i.e. that because the defendant committed the crime she is insane.


Who am I to argue with what is ultimately judicial discretion regarding disposition of a defendant in a NGBRI case?

The Florida Supreme Court in their 9-28-06 Jury Instructions stipulate to the Jury:

"If your verdict is that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity because insane, that does not necessarily mean [he] [she] will be released
from custody. I must conduct further proceedings to determine if the defendant should be committed to a mental hospital, or given other outpatient treatment."

I'm mind-boggled about why meanings are being turned topsy-turvey on this thread, so I'll say good night.

 

[magic-cat]

Hi songline-
The Florida (Orange County) jail does not allow anyone to bring in a computer but an attorney. Remember there was the big thing about it because they were trying to prevent even the lawyers from bringing them in and JB filed a big motion against them about it and in the end, he was successful with that one? George cannot take in a computer even if he wants to.

Just thought I'd share.