Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7

[ziggy]

For me it's hard to say where to draw the line between mentally ill with some type of "disorder" and plain old character flaws. Some people just don't have good character and even when they know what it is, they never strive to achieve it.

 

[LancelotLink]

hmmm.
If you find a transcript I would be interested in reading it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/14/ijvm.01.html
Here ya go. I don't know if his appearances lately means he is going to be showing up at the defense table, but timing is everything.

 

[lawlady84]

I really agree with what OneLostGirl and many of you are saying- legal insanity isn't for when we don't understand why a person did something, or if we think someone is too cold-hearted to be sane. Its - in everyday terms - the level when someone is so mentally ill that they could be civilly committed against their will to an institution. That's a huge hurdle - the right to take away someone's liberty has to be for GOOD cause, whether its in a criminal trial or not. And OLG is right that it is very, very, very rare. In federal court there's a presumption of sanity- defendants have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt insanity.

But to prove capital murder, the prosecution has to prove each element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think TL meant he wanted to try for a NGRI ruling. I think he wanted to raise doubts about Casey's state of mind- to try to raise a reasonable doubt as to her being cold and calculating. If TL could convince even a few jurors that KC was a troubled woman who snapped - not a mother who premeditated the killing of her own daughter - then she might be convicted of second degree murder ("depraved indifference to human life") rather than capital murder. Still guilty, but no death penalty.

 

[songline]

I have brought it up before and will again- I often wonder if Cindy and George are TRYING to get Casey convicted.

I think it does seem that way but if they did want her convicted they sure as hell went through a lot of helping her out in all the wrong ways. It could have been more respectful to tone down all that BS and just stay mum.
They need to shut up - or they need to be outraged at her attorney.

 

[songline]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/14/ijvm.01.html
Here ya go. I don't know if his appearances lately means he is going to be showing up at the defense table, but timing is everything.

LancelotLink THANK YOU :blowkiss:
OMG they just keep on keeping on acting like azzes.
Maybe they think if they get enough hate, then people will feel sorry for Casey???? :waitasec: :waitasec:
the more I hear them, the more I do feel sorry for Casey, Lee and Caylee.

But Cindy had a couple of Freudian slips that are highly damaging.
(too bad your cant monitor Freudian slips and take them to the stand)
When asked about, why Casey did not make the call before 31 days,
Cindy said something about "I don't' know that may be her way of grieving?"
hmmmmmmmm: eek: Grieving? for a kidnapping?
I noticed she did not say "I think she was panicked". (which would be sensible)
I have to say this interview put the nail in the coffin....

PS: if you ever see a transcript where Lenamon is indicating any talk of past abuse
That is the one I never heard.

 

[MAMABEAR]

Member in one of the jail house tapes, KC looked really happy and she had just gotten back from talking to the head dr. She was telling rents that the dr. said she wasn't crazy. She was very proud of it. Bet CA had told her she was crazy in the past. She will never let her lawyers say she was crazy. No way. Then her mother would be right. I don't think the lawyers saying she is would do any good if she won't go along with it---right?

Is there any way a lawyer could go heady and have her declared crazy enough to go for this in court?

 

[songline]

Member in one of the jail house tapes, KC looked really happy and she had just gotten back from talking to the head dr. She was telling rents that the dr. said she wasn't crazy. She was very proud of it. Bet CA had told her she was crazy in the past. She will never let her lawyers say she was crazy. No way. Then her mother would be right. I don't think the lawyers saying she is would do any good if she won't go along with it---right?

Is there any way a lawyer could go heady and have her declared crazy enough to go for this in court?

A reasonable attorney can talk to Casey regarding what is in her best interest.
But she has the Bozo from Smutville...He can not be reasonable IMHO.
It is not the Lawyers that have to declare her state of mind, but the Doctors.
HOWEVER a good Lawyer should be giving many examples of irrational thinking / behavior, and perhaps a history.
I am sure all the latest shows by her parents would seem like she lived in a nut farm. But a lawyer I do not believe can have her declared crazy.

 

[eddeva]

HOWEVER a good Lawyer should be giving many examples of irrational thinking / behavior, and perhaps a history.

*resp. snipped.
does anyone remember way back during one of george or cindy's first interviews they were asked about remembering anything 'unusual' (something to that effect) that casey had ever done apart from 'the thing at school'?
did anyone ever find out what 'the thing at school' was?

 

[Brini]

I think he is right actually. She obviously has something missing, be it mental (if you look at it scientifically or biologically) or spiritual (if you wanna be metaphysical)


...I think we all know she did it, and the loss of Lenamon for The Team and Nejame for the As actually goes a ways in verifying it, dont you guys think?

But, then, it doesnt take much to hear fake nanny, 31 days, decomp in car, duct tape on skull found 15 houses away to realise what must have happened. I want her to have a fair trial too cause we all deserve one but that doesnt mean she will walk or her attorneys think she should.

Actually, I think that attorneys have bailed for two reasons, neither of which are mental health related: 1) None of the As cooperate well with their attorneys, nor do they tell the truth. One HAS to be truthful to the attorney, if to no one else, and 2) The evidence against KC is, as they say, "mountainous."

 

[Brini]

He wrote a paper where he laid out several defenses - post partum psychosis - death by accident followed by panic. They all admitted she committed the murder but relieved her of full responsibility for it.

I strongly suspect JB rejected all of them as they hinge on KC being guilty

I think you're right.

Post-part psych would be tough, if not impossible. Accident and panic might be sellable, but there would still be a lot of explain. And, she'd still be culpable.

 

[Brini]

Oh,that's right! I forgot about that. I bet KC would never agree to any of those scenarios.

Right! With KC, it's SODDI or nada.

 

[Brini]

I agree with him completely and I said long ago that she should have been pleading "Not guilty by reason of insanity" YES IT IS HARD TO PROVE.
But if Casey can't tell anyone to whom she gave Caylee, :bang:
I do not see them being any closer to finding any other direction to go.....:bang:
Unless JB is going for a re-trial due to him being incompetent.
but she is not geting a slap on the wrist....Unless she talkes or pleads :crazy:

LE knows KC didn't give Caylee to anyone. The forensic evidence of Caylee's death is in KC's car.

 

[Brini]

i can see where this might, possibly be of some aid during the sentencing phase, but i can't work out how it would be helpful at trial. maybe i'm wrong, and i may well be, but i thought your country and mine were the same in this regard: so long as you know right from wrong you can howl at the moon, talk to elvis and chew the carpet but you can't plead insanity.

There you go with that good sense, again! :blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

YOU ARE CORRECT. That is why insanity is a hard case to prove. And most attorneys do not go in that direction unless they must.
I think maybe JB is really working for someone else and that is why Casey has no option but to hold on to him.
IT IS INSANE for anyone in her position to insist to keep this BOZO.
But again you are right and if you know right from wrong you can Howell at the moon but you cant plead insane.

1/2 of the chit she did is insane:
Who does not make a 911 call for 31 days?
Who goes to party when a kid is missing?
Who goes to get their nails and tattoos done?
Who lies, lies, lies?
Who insists on a clown for a lawyer?

KC is hanging onto him, because she can control him. She's like he Mom, in that way.

 

[Brini]

I'm not being confrontational but I would love to see the link of the sugested theories TL came up with initially as I'm very intrigued by the psychiatric aspects of this case and how it seems to be comming up on occasion when dicussing the legal aspect of KC's plea or better yet non plea which is crazy in itself.

KC is not being offered a plea, to my knowledge, anyway. She has nothing to "trade." LE has too much evidence against her.

Psychiatrically: LE and the criminal court judges have a TON of experience with handling sociopaths. That's the largest chunk of the criminal population.

It used to be said that only 1% of sociopaths are female.

However, this is now being rethought, because female sociopaths often go undetected for long periods.

 

[Brini]

Perhaps you should get involved in trying to help change some laws if this is that big an issue for you.

Because as it stands and rightfully so (IMO and I am mentally ill and have been "Insane") being stupid is not even close to being insane. Living a life having never been called out on or forced to face the consequenses of ones illegal or immoral acts is not insanity. Being selfish and having an obvious ability to shut ones feelings off after being involved in illegal or immoral acts is not insanity. Insanity is about not knowing what one is doing- having your brain work against you, not having a choice, being unable to reason or make sense of the world around you

Your list above? Are not the acts of an "insane" person, they are the acts of the oh SO common stupid criminal. MANY criminals are this stupid and make these kinds of choices. They too get themselves caught.. and most times convicted Often-times all by themselves! The evidence used to convict is left by none other than the stupid criminals themselves- their own LIES, mistakes, lack of planning and activities after the crime is what does them in. Why do you think the prison systems are so overcrowded? Have you never watched "Cops"?

Do you think Scott Peterson was "insane" when he killed and then lied about and covered up his wife and unborn childs murder? He was "partying" after his crime too- his lawyer was quite the clown, was even on TV talking major about him before he took him on as a client! He sat in court chatting and laughing in front of the jury. Ha, He's STILL lying and lying and lying and it's HOW many years later?! It's what criminals DO- they are conmen- some are darn good at it, some get better with practice, but some others (quite a bit of them), can't con anyone but their own enabling parents and end up spending their entire lives in and out of prison.

If Casey did this, if she murdered her child, she is going down (probably with evidence or information she herself left behind) and rightfully so!

Insanity is not so much hard to prove as it is rare. Only about 1% of the ones who do attempt to use it, succeed. It isn't a joke or something to be used lightly on someone like Casey Anthony who does not even have a history of mental health issues.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

POTD! Look at you "thanks" list, on this one!

Because you summed up the whole insanity non-issue. Again. :blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

I too understand such a plea rarely works and honestly I can't see how it applies in this case. Sociopathic is more like it, imo.

You are dead right!:blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

You are absolutely right Stupid is not insane and Stupid is not necessarily the murderer either.
And if Casey did this I will voice my opinion after hearing what the trial will show us.

Going back to the reason he selected to withdraw from this case, is because in his opinion he did not see what JB is doing as the right direction to go.
Oh and about Scott Peterson: Hmmm Male with preg wife.
IMHO it is easier to believe that scenario.
Then a 22 year Old with baby, who has parents create a Heaven for a child to grow in.. I come flat on Motive. Of course to me that too falls under insane. A Mother harming her child...(while it has happened t is not natural)

Google mothers who have killed their kids. It happens. A lot. I agree that it is unnatural, but so are these mothers.

When it happens it is usually to make the woman free for a man she wants.

KC knew that TonE didn't want a kid, at that time. She also wanted to be free to party. She is much more appealing to the guys in her crowd, without the baggage of a toddler.

There are also quite a few mothers who allow their "men" to sexually or physically abuse the kids, so she'll "have a man." (I've heard this, myself, many times).

Motive is the easiest part.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/marybeth_tinning/index.html

http://www.shotsmag.co.uk/mothers who kill/Mothers Who Kill.htm

 

[Brini]

I just don't get why JB can't see the writing on the wall...there is so much evidence against Casey, he is insane to not either talk plea deals w/ the state or invest in some sort of mitigating theory to help his client out. The "I didn't do it" defense is weak and he is doing his client no favors by sticking to that line of thought. I can't figure out if it is more JB or more Casey's decision not to budge, maybe a combination of the two ? I keep thinking JB's ego is the strongest force behind the "didn't do it" defense.

I think it's a folie a deux.

We have two massive egos here. Each inflamming the grandoisity of the other.

I don't know why he keeps saying that KC will not accept a plea, when she has not been offered one!

 

[Brini]

AND WHY aren't the Anthony's trying to step in?
I would hope they want to feel confident in her Lawyer.
HOW can they?

GA keeps trying to talk to KC re: changing lawyers.

KC and CA are the bosses. They are matriarchs. The guys are the underlings.