Casey files for-Indigency; Defense reveals how much it's been paid!

[Lanie]

I have the utmost respect for Judge Perry and how efficiently he runs his Court. However, because, I am a stickler in regards to abiding by rules & regulations, I am very disappointed he allowed the Defense to keep the out-of-town experts. I understand his position on extra cost for in-state experts to start over from scratch, but I don't agree with it. Hiring the out-of-state experts, allowing them to devote so many hrs. to the case, knowing full well they could not continue paying them was nothing more than a well thought out strategy by the Defense,IMO. I believe every Defendant should be treated equally. Poor indigent John Doe would not be afforded the right to use out-of-state experts. I am disappointed the Court allowed the Defense to get by with this.

I don't know how to multi-quote, so I will just do these one by one. :crazy:

I understand the extra cost thing, too, but the thing I have a big problem with is I do not believe anywhere near 60% of the work has been done by any of these experts, much less all of them. I have no idea how this works, but it is my strong hope the defense does have to account in more detail to the court what has been done, and if it can be shown these out of state experts haven't done very much, I hope there is disciplinary action taken against the defense.

 

[magnolia]

I was just watching the rerun of the indigence hearing under Judge SS. I'm confused. It was said by CM that Baez was paid ~89k and Lyon was paid ~22k.

All the defense attorneys (plus Casey) left the courtroom for a powwow then came back. Lyon (under oath) said that she got 70k (minus 22k) from an indigent fund that was spent on a bunch of things (I can't remember but equipment was one of them). She also guessed that she spent at least 1000 hours on the case. I thought the 22K was for travel expenses only that came out of Casey's money via ABC? If Lyon used her fund from the University and didn't take Casey's money for travel then something is off here.

So, my question is...did Casey spend any travel money for Lyon or did Lyon take it from her indigent fund from her University. Sounds like Lyon isn't really doing this pro bono.

I think Judge P needs to order all the defense attorneys to do a complete and accurate accounting of accounts received/paid, hours and to whom. The dollars don't add up to me considering Casey got an additional 70k donation from her previous attorney that isn't even mentioned. It should be a prerequisite before the state gives her a dime. If my math is correct, they would have had to have blown at least $275k with nothing to show for it but a bunch of stumbling in court.

I think the Florida tax payers are being taken for a ride big time.

IMO

I totally agree.

 

[Lanie]

I was just watching the rerun of the indigence hearing under Judge SS. I'm confused. It was said by CM that Baez was paid ~89k and Lyon was paid ~22k.

All the defense attorneys (plus Casey) left the courtroom for a powwow then came back. Lyon (under oath) said that she got 70k (minus 22k) from an indigent fund that was spent on a bunch of things (I can't remember but equipment was one of them). She also guessed that she spent at least 1000 hours on the case. I thought the 22K was for travel expenses only that came out of Casey's money via ABC? If Lyon used her fund from the University and didn't take Casey's money for travel then something is off here.

So, my question is...did Casey spend any travel money for Lyon or did Lyon take it from her indigent fund from her University. Sounds like Lyon isn't really doing this pro bono.

I think Judge P needs to order all the defense attorneys to do a complete and accurate accounting of accounts received/paid, hours and to whom. The dollars don't add up to me considering Casey got an additional 70k donation from her previous attorney that isn't even mentioned. It should be a prerequisite before the state gives her a dime. If my math is correct, they would have had to have blown at least $275k with nothing to show for it but a bunch of stumbling in court.

I think the Florida tax payers are being taken for a ride big time.

IMO

I agree. I remember some time back Baez trying to get out of paying some measly amount to have copies made. I would really like someone to follow up on this stuff and make the defense account for what all this money was spent on. I am completely blown away by the attorneys stating in open court they did not keep track of their hours, and apparently have not kept track of the hours of the experts (so what do they base their payment of the experts on?), they spent money to go somewhere out of state to review evidence, yet in all this time haven't been able to go to the Sheriff's office and pick up evidence??? When this was private payment, then I say fine, as ICA has the right to whatever attorney she wants, and if she is okay paying $90k with no accounting of the hours, more power to her, but now they are dipping into taxpayer money, and I feel they have already been very financially irresponsible and should have to account for what they have already spent. If not, IMO, this sets a very, very bad precedent.
:furious::banghead::furious::banghead:

 

[coco puff]

I don't know how to multi-quote, so I will just do these one by one. :crazy:

I understand the extra cost thing, too, but the thing I have a big problem with is I do not believe anywhere near 60% of the work has been done by any of these experts, much less all of them. I have no idea how this works, but it is my strong hope the defense does have to account in more detail to the court what has been done, and if it can be shown these out of state experts haven't done very much, I hope there is disciplinary action taken against the defense.

I mentioned this in the Hearing thread. If 60% of the work is done by a certain expert, then they should have recieved 60% of their pay. JP should find out what was paid so far, along with how much work product has taken place. JB cannot claim 60% of the work is completed so he can claim that it is too expensive to start over, yet have the tax payers pay the whole tab.

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't know how to multi-quote, so I will just do these one by one. :crazy:

I understand the extra cost thing, too, but the thing I have a big problem with is I do not believe anywhere near 60% of the work has been done by any of these experts, much less all of them. I have no idea how this works, but it is my strong hope the defense does have to account in more detail to the court what has been done, and if it can be shown these out of state experts haven't done very much, I hope there is disciplinary action taken against the defense.

Lanie, I agree and I think where it will get really interesting is when these experts cannot finish their work during the limited cap that JP and JAC set, and Baez comes back whining saying but Judge they are finished.

I think JP will say too bad, I warned you about this. It will be evident at this point that JB lied about the amount of work already completed. That wheel will keep turning.

 

[legalmania]

Lanie, I agree and I think where it will get really interesting is when these experts cannot finish their work during the limited cap that JP and JAC set, and Baez comes back whining saying but Judge they are finished.

I think JP will say too bad, I warned you about this. It will be evident at this point that JB lied about the amount of work already completed. That wheel will keep turning.

The judge so far is leaving some the motions without prejudice , when it comes to the experts, if they can prove they need more money within the guidelines of the JAC I believe they will get it. The last thing this judge wants is an appeal because of due process issues. These experts have committed to completing the job and they know they will receive less funds. Remember though after the trial everybody will be writing a book and doing the talk show tour. I'm betting this is part of the reason they decided to continue under JAC guidelines.

 

[Solange82200]

I have the utmost respect for Judge Perry and how efficiently he runs his Court. However, because, I am a stickler in regards to abiding by rules & regulations, I am very disappointed he allowed the Defense to keep the out-of-town experts. I understand his position on extra cost for in-state experts to start over from scratch, but I don't agree with it. Hiring the out-of-state experts, allowing them to devote so many hrs. to the case, knowing full well they could not continue paying them was nothing more than a well thought out strategy by the Defense,IMO. I believe every Defendant should be treated equally. Poor indigent John Doe would not be afforded the right to use out-of-state experts. I am disappointed the Court allowed the Defense to get by with this.

I was a little disappointed as well, but I have a strong feeling that everyone involved is expecting a guilty verdict, and JP is giving them as much as he possibly can by law, so that in the end no one can complain she didn't get any breaks or was treated unfairly. JS did that too in my opinion, for the same reason. It is going to be very hard for her to argue that the Judge was biased against her, after allowing them to keep all their hot shot experts, AND footing the bill. At the end of the day, all these experts are not going to find any smoking gun to help KC, in my opinion. Let her have them. It may not seem like it right now, but I think in the end everything is being done in a way so that there is true justice for Caylee....

 

[logicalgirl]

The judge so far is leaving some the motions without prejudice , when it comes to the experts, if they can prove they need more money within the guidelines of the JAC I believe they will get it. The last thing this judge wants is an appeal because of due process issues. These experts have committed to completing the job and they know they will receive less funds. Remember though after the trial everybody will be writing a book and doing the talk show tour. I'm betting this is part of the reason they decided to continue under JAC guidelines.

I also think JBP will be watching closely and this is one of the reasons for the 45 day status meetings. JBP is known for keeping the purse strings of the JAC held pretty tightly closed.
If I was an expert on this case, I would know if I came back for more funds, I'd better have a good explanation since JBP will demand that explanation in at least writing if not in person or via skype or video conferencing. And the explanation had better add up in percentages to JB's story of 50% work complete.

 

[zoey]

I also think JBP will be watching closely and this is one of the reasons for the 45 day status meetings. JBP is known for keeping the purse strings of the JAC held pretty tightly closed.
If I was an expert on this case, I would know if I came back for more funds, I'd better have a good explanation since JBP will demand that explanation in at least writing if not in person or via skype or video conferencing. And the explanation had better add up in percentages to JB's story of 50% work complete.

I did like how he made it clear that it would be watched VERY closely and gone over with a fine tooth comb...however, did find it amazing that the experiments and such hadn't been done and they were planning on the State of Flordia to pay for them (i.e., the car bit)---I do hope that they are responsible---I also hope that somewhere somehow they are help accountable for the hours put in this case

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

The court and Judge Perry are well aware of Baez' antics. JPerry understands there is over $163,000 unaccounted for which he did state, puts the court in a quandry..I wonder if there is money left over somewhere that Baez has hidden (or perhaps this is what the Anthonys' received, which is why they weren't in court so they didn't have to testify to how much money they received). He has ordered Baez keep a detailed accounting list of hours that will be gone over with a fine tooth comb, as he put it. Baez should understand that should have already been done and hours accounted for...

I do believe it's the lesser of two evils to have the experts that have already begun left on this case than starting from scratch, which could put them behind schedule. Judge Perry adamantly stated May 11, 2011 is the date of this trial and will not be happy if it's extened beyond that..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[ZsaZsa]

I mentioned this in the Hearing thread. If 60% of the work is done by a certain expert, then they should have recieved 60% of their pay. JP should find out what was paid so far, along with how much work product has taken place. JB cannot claim 60% of the work is completed so he can claim that it is too expensive to start over, yet have the tax payers pay the whole tab.

From what we have seen so far I think the JAC will be examining every claim thoroughly.

 

[suzihawk]

From what we have seen so far I think the JAC will be examining every claim thoroughly.

Yup... I think Baez took JP's hint of if 50-60% of the work was completed then it wouldn't be cost effective to start over and ran with it, whether it was true or not. Me thinks it's gonna come back to bite him BIG time. Hopefully...

 

[sumbunny]

I think the judge is giving the defense enough rope to hang themselves IMO

 

[LambChop]

Speaking about Baez's five bucks per hour - would it have been possible for Baez, when he was presentlng his expenses during the indigent process, to have reserved an amount for him to continue as lead counsel, if it appeared to be less than what JAC would be prepared to pay a public defender? If he had done that then there would obviously be none left to pay any experts, etc.

Is that possible? There is still something fishy going on.

Maybe I can ask the legal experts also.....

I think he may have been trying to be funny. What I think he was trying to say is that if he counts up all his hours that he will be putting in for the future and has put in for the past he will only be averaging $5.00 an hour. Bottom line is if he knew she had no money why would he take the case. Answer: He recognized a potential to make a killing, movie, book deals, etc. and has worked toward that goal from the very beginning. What interest me is the fact that JB said under oath that he was hired by KC on June 17, 2008. If that is true, and not an error on his part, did she hire him in June and give him a check that bounced and when she was arrested he decided to represent her at that time because he realized the case was getting national attention through Nancy Grace.

He stops visitation with the parents claiming the videos are going public and then sets up a system whereas he has full control over what is written between KC and her family. He brings correspondence to her and delivers it back to the A's. He knows what was written.....can anyone say GOLDMINE.

jmo

 

[zoey]

I think he may have been trying to be funny. What I think he was trying to say is that if he counts up all his hours that he will be putting in for the future and has put in for the past he will only be averaging $5.00 an hour. Bottom line is if he knew she had no money why would he take the case. Answer: He recognized a potential to make a killing, movie, book deals, etc. and has worked toward that goal from the very beginning. What interest me is the fact that JB said under oath that he was hired by KC on June 17, 2008. If that is true, and not an error on his part, did she hire him in June and give him a check that bounced and when she was arrested he decided to represent her at that time because he realized the case was getting national attention through Nancy Grace.

He stops visitation with the parents claiming the videos are going public and then sets up a system whereas he has full control over what is written between KC and her family. He brings correspondence to her and delivers it back to the A's. He knows what was written.....can anyone say GOLDMINE.

jmo

I think that the June 17, 2008 was in error....I truly believe that he meant July 17th..he stated that date yesterday in court (I think that was the court date he verified it...) other than that I agree totally with what you have stated...I do think something is going on --- why would anyone be there doing all this work for nothing....you can't tell me that kc is that engaging of a personality....TonE even said she got old talking and talking...and remember those letters....lordy lordy lordy....

 

[Omachka]

The court and Judge Perry are well aware of Baez' antics. JPerry understands there is over $163,000 unaccounted for which he did state, puts the court in a quandry..I wonder if there is money left over somewhere that Baez has hidden (or perhaps this is what the Anthonys' received, which is why they weren't in court so they didn't have to testify to how much money they received). He has ordered Baez keep a detailed accounting list of hours that will be gone over with a fine tooth comb, as he put it. Baez should understand that should have already been done and hours accounted for...

I do believe it's the lesser of two evils to have the experts that have already begun left on this case than starting from scratch, which could put them behind schedule. Judge Perry adamantly stated May 11, 2011 is the date of this trial and will not be happy if it's extened beyond that..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

OMG LLL I think you nailed it! I bet you are right about the reason the A's weren't there! There had to be some reason they missed this hearing when they've been to all but one of the others.

I think it will be very difficult for JB to come up with his accounting. Before this case, he was fairly unknown and probably hadn't handled anything nearly this complex. He most likely had very sloppy time keeping practices so I bet there isn't an accurate record of his time for him to pull up and make a print out of for the Judge. Then there are the bits that he doesn't want the judge to know about... like the possibility that he shared money with the A's.

 

[LambChop]

I thought the judge said something to JB about the remaining money was spent on experts and investigators. But that would be about $234,000. That is a lot of money when their experts have not even looked at the physical evidence SA has. If KC received $200,000 from ABC, $70, 000 from TM, $70,000 from AL and $5,000 from a donor and JB and AL's expenses amount to $111,000 where's the rest?????

I believe JP wants JB to give an accounting as to where the rest of the money was spent and break it down with actual records as this is what JAC wants and that is why JB wants this meeting in camera. At least that is what I understood. Feel free to correct me if I misheard. Thanks

 

[Anais]

I thought the judge said something to JB about the remaining money was spent on experts and investigators. But that would be about $234,000. That is a lot of money when their experts have not even looked at the physical evidence SA has. If KC received $200,000 from ABC, $70, 000 from TM, $70,000 from AL and $5,000 from a donor and JB and AL's expenses amount to $111,000 where's the rest?????

I believe JP wants JB to give an accounting as to where the rest of the money was spent and break it down with actual records as this is what JAC wants and that is why JB wants this meeting in camera. At least that is what I understood. Feel free to correct me if I misheard. Thanks

ITA Lambchop, several of us were discussing this yesterday. I really do not for one milisecond believe that Judge Perry, or the JAC are going to simply look the other way and take Baez's word for it all. Oh no, hold on tight Mr. Baez. The will be going over everything with a fine tooth comb scrutinizing every sigle little detail. I also do not believe that as many of the experts Baez testified to have at least 60% work product done at this point. Baez fibbed IMO yesterday and will be caught red handed.

 

[Whome?]

New here,so if I am wrong,please correct me.At Thursday's hearing,when JP asked JB about
the mitigation specialist,he requested her hours,monies paid etc iirc.When JB responded
he did not address this,and JP called a sidebar.which after he advised JB that he would
go over everything with a fine tooth comb.I think JP is aware of JB sloppy bookkeeping
but does not want to delay the trial with the money issues,but I think after the trial
JB will have som explaining to do JMO

 

[TrialAddict]

Wouldn't, Casey have to claim ALL the money she received from the sales of the pic's and video's even if she did her pay lawyer with it? Then Baez would have to claim ALL the money he received by, Casey for any work he did for her? I know Baez can probably write most of it off as expenses (true or not), but, Casey couldn't