Casey's "Emotional Breakdown" per the docs

[Dev]

Warning...... Long, Rambling Post Ahead !



IMHO I think Casey 'knew' she was different long ago....long before Caylee was conceived, long before Casey didn't graduate with her class. Maybe her little outbursts, her whining about 'losing it', her mentioning needing to be committed (and we don't know how many other types of 'tantrums' she threw at her family over the years), were her attempts at throwing out there what she knew was not 'normal', and wanting to see the reactions of others.

Would they take her seriously? Would they chuckle and roll their eyes and think she was pulling their leg?

What I'm saying is ...... What if years ago Casey begin 'testing the waters' as far as getting reactions from people about her having a possible mental/personality disorder and depending on the responses, she chose to pursue it or go back to sweeping it under the rug.


*dons stone-deflecting suit*

I read every word of your post and it was extremely thought-provoking.

I am beginning to think that each of the other family members decided some time ago that Casey was not mentally well and maybe that is why they steadfastly appear to refuse to blame her for anything. Maybe in their minds, she is not responsible.

This would not help her legally. She wouldn't meet the stringent standards for being legally insane.

Incidentally, while flipping btw TV channels, I recently heard a small part of a show which began with this statement: "The largest single population of mentally ill persons in the country is not in any psychiatric hospital--it is in the L.A. County Jail."

NO, I don't think we should let all those inmates out! I'm just saying that there are, sadly, some mental illness issues for which we have no good solution.

As for Casey, while maybe her family members saw something wrong about her (but don't admit that to any outsider), I don't think she will ever accept any serious help for whatever condition(s) she may have. And even if she did, it's too late to save her from the murder rap. If things continue as they are going, she won't have to function in the outside world, ever again.

 

[PattyCake]

I think whatever is going on with KC is at the biological level - her brain. I do not believe she has a conscience.

That is very different than people who have mental illness. imo. I think in her head, everything she's done is justified. I have not seen one tear out of her for Caylee. Whenever the tears have come, it's always been about herself.

 

[Oakley]

I don't think Cindy would recognize much to be honest.. she's sicker than her daughter, IMO. (I'm not lynch mobbing her, I'm giving my honest opinion on the womans mental health- just for the record)

I think so, too. And I resisted that for so long. I though Cindy was just a rather neurotic, anxious person who suddenly felt backed to the wall by the furor and was just trying to keep things together and do the right thing. Well, she may be, but I have to reluctantly conclude that she is "sick" in some way, too.

One thing I do know is that when we see someone who is extremely controlling, that person is a very scared, anxious person who, in spite of looking like a very formidable person, is actually very afraid and actually feels weak and helpless.

I also agree that Cindy appears to have major mental issues. I was watching the video with her and Yuri again where he is explaining to her (or trying to) how her behavior is making it difficult for LE to do their job (this was back in August, I believe.) Cindy only hears what she wants to hear. Yuri was trying desperately to reach her and I don't think she heard a word he said. She simply pulled the "grieving grandmother" card. I think that is why her brother's e-mails to her seemed so harsh to some. She exasperates those around her. She is truly toxic, IMO.

 

[kline]

I think there might be something to it. Do any of us know if she's been diagnosed with a mental illness? Sometimes mental illness becomes most prominent in the late teens to early 20's. She would have been right on the cusp of that time frame.

Having been there I won't dare say this was only an attention seeking plot. She very well could have been feeling as if she was "losing it" and was reaching out in the only way she could.

Edited to add: Miscarriage can bring out the most raw feelings one could ever feel. The hopelessness and surge/drop of hormones alone is tough. Not to mention the emotional turmoil. I do think this is possible, regardless if people believed her or not.

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

 

[PaulaF513]

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

Kline:

I am so sorry you are going through this with your son. I agree. it's a nightmare.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

{{kline}}}

You did the right thing.

There are many really bright, capable, experienced people here who can offer up a ton of knowledge and experience to support you right now.
their perceived symptoms.

You're already on the right path, and you've done the right thing, and you're optimistic.

{{{Kline}}}

 

[debbie0604]

When I read those statements regarding KC's "emotional breakdown" and possibly wanting to be "institutionalized", I wondered about that. Because our information at this point is limited in this area of her background, I'm going to wait and see what comes out in the next set of documents. I tend to think, however, that she was making statements flippantly regarding the hormonal changes that she was feeling shortly after giving birth. Since she was not used to experiencing feelings (as narcissistic-personality disordered people usually don't), she probably didn't know how to cope. CA probably added to the distress. I do not think she suffers from a mental illness - personality disorder yes, mental illness - no. JMO

 

[Dev]

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

I wish you and your son all the strength and hope in the world! While I know psychiatric drugs do many good things, I hope you are in a place where they will treat him not just with medication, but also with some other follow-up, as well.

 

[PaulaF513]

When I read those statements regarding KC's "emotional breakdown" and possibly wanting to be "institutionalized", I wondered about that. Because our information at this point is limited in this area of her background, I'm going to wait and see what comes out in the next set of documents. I tend to think, however, that she was making statements flippantly regarding the hormonal changes that she was feeling shortly after giving birth. Since she was not used to experiencing feelings (as narcissistic-personality disordered people usually don't), she probably didn't know how to cope. CA probably added to the distress. I do not think she suffers from a mental illness - personality disorder yes, mental illness - no. JMO

You know Deb, not being a professional mental health person, I really have trouble separating illness and disorder. I understand legally the "right from wrong" issue. However, I have seen close up and personally, the complete inability, of someone with a personality disorder, to make the right decision, or to control the outbursts that frequently accompany some of them. I've seen Godawful rage and terrible anguish, that led to a veritable lifetime of self-medication. This even after years and years of professional help, even a stint in jail didn't quell the beast within. I think that we don't know enough about these so-called disorders that so very often ruin lives to really distinguish between them and illnesses. After the fact, such as in this case, it's far too late for analysis and treatment. I pray that a way is found to more easily identify and treat these wayward personality quirks before tragedy brings them to attention.

 

[Dev]

I tend to think, however, that she was making statements flippantly regarding the hormonal changes that she was feeling shortly after giving birth. Since she was not used to experiencing feelings (as narcissistic-personality disordered people usually don't), she probably didn't know how to cope.JMO

That is definitely food for thought. I agree with those who say she has no conscience (for whatever reason). I have read that those persons (they used to be called psychopaths, now they are called sociopaths) have such a lack of feeling that they have to keep doing more and more outrageous or daring things, just to get some sort of reaction and furor and sensation--just to reassure themselves that they are alive

And having strong hormonal surges, which lead to strong feelings, would definitely disrupt their usual existence, as you said.

 

[eddeva]

That is definitely food for thought. I agree with those who say she has no conscience (for whatever reason). I have read that those persons (they used to be called psychopaths, now they are called sociopaths) have such a lack of feeling that they have to keep doing more and more outrageous or daring things, just to get some sort of reaction and furor and sensation--just to reassure themselves that they are alive

And having strong hormonal surges, which lead to strong feelings, would definitely disrupt their usual existence, as you said.

in that i believe her to be a sociopath i don't think her capable of strong feelings, but strong primal urges - yes, and i agree w/ everything else you've said. even if casey didn't need cash, she'd probably steal it for kicks imo.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

:blowkiss: I'm so sorry for what you are having to go through.. It's not easy!

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

:blowkiss: It takes a strong family to pull together and do the right thing for him. Be proud of not only him, but yourself (and family) for being brave to get him the help he needs.

Please keep us updated on how he's doing. Many prayers for your son and for your family. He's in the right place and while the road may be difficult now, it soon will be smoothly paved with peace and harmony for all of you.

 

[Blackwatch]

You know Deb, not being a professional mental health person, I really have trouble separating illness and disorder. I understand legally the "right from wrong" issue. However, I have seen close up and personally, the complete inability, of someone with a personality disorder, to make the right decision, or to control the outbursts that frequently accompany some of them. I've seen Godawful rage and terrible anguish, that led to a veritable lifetime of self-medication. This even after years and years of professional help, even a stint in jail didn't quell the beast within. I think that we don't know enough about these so-called disorders that so very often ruin lives to really distinguish between them and illnesses. After the fact, such as in this case, it's far too late for analysis and treatment. I pray that a way is found to more easily identify and treat these wayward personality quirks before tragedy brings them to attention.

What a great post. I totally agree. Pyschiatry is not the be all and end all. In fact, I don't believe they begin to comprehend all that goes on in the human mind, chemically or psychologically. I pity the poor people that are label one way or the other - I don't believe all cases are so clear cut. Until then, both the innocent and the guilty will suffer and sometimes it's darned hard to differentiate.

 

[Atlanta PI]

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

Hi! So sorry to hear about your son. I know from experience that it is hard to do but you did the right thing. Just be aware that depending on his progress, it could take 1-3 and maybe more stays before his meds are regulated and he is able to maintain. My daughter had her psychotic break at 26 seemingly out of nowhere. After three stays they were finally able to crack the delusions, and control the manic stuff through the right cocktail mix. It took about a year. That was two years ago and needless to say I am so blessed and grateful to have her back to her old self. Hang in there and say lots of prayers.

 

[Hermione]

I disagree. Again, this is lending way too much credit to her. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a woman of KC's mentality that's already gone through pregnancy and childbirth who knew they were pregnant again that would bleed even slightly and not contact a Dr. in some way - even if you didn't want the pregnancy. If you're pregnant and there's blood, then you have an issue. It may not be serious but still. She obviously knew she miscarried because she told people. This is just another one of her lies.<snip for space by me>

Not that I believe KC, a compulsive liar, but I can tell you from experience how you can have a miscarriage w/o medical attention yet realize it's a miscarriage. These days, doctors don't really want to see you for your first prenatal visit until the 8 week point. I have been told (because I asked with my first preg- I wanted to in as soon as I had a positive test and could not believe they wanted me to wait 4 more weeks!) that the reason is because it is so very common for miscarriages or spotaneous things to happen early. In my case my period was a week late and I had a positive test but had not gone to the doctor yet. Within a week of the positive test, I had what was like a very heavy and painful period, and then after that I had talked with the nurse, and had a blood test which showed some hCG, but it was very low, subsequent test was no HCG- it was a m/c. I didn't need any medical treatment for the m/c itself- but come to think of it, I WOULD have bloodwork in my record of the very low HCG (pregnancy hormone) levels- these are supposed to double every 3 days early on and it's how you can confirm a pregnancy before a urine test- commonly used by women trying to conceive with help from a doctor with fertility treatments so they know as early as possible if it "took"...

Ok I just contradicted myself- there would be medical proof if KC went to the doctor in regards to anything related to the pregancy, but it's not necessary most times if it's very early, as in say 4-6 weeks along and a m/c happens with no complications, it would just be basically like a more painful menstrual period. If you call the doctor, they'll tell you to wait it out at home. usually. If you go in, they'll probably send you home unless something is unusual. This is sadly very common, early miscarriages and women may not even realize what's going on and think it's a late, heavy period. Sorry if this is TMI.

IF KC did have one, it could certainly affect her emotionally for sure- it's a rollercoaster ride, just like pregnancy and postpartum stuff. I have suffered from some pretty wild postpartum feelings, and they're not fun. I would SAY "I feel like I'm losing it! I feel like I am losing my mind, I don't feel "right" ", but I can also honestly say, I never ever felt like I was going to hurt myself or anyone- but it was the worst feeling of my life though and I had to accept it and let people help me in order to feel better, you don't just snap out of it.

 

[Hermione]

I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.

I honestly think my first reaction is to say what a beast, what a sociopath KC is, but sometimes I really do wonder if she's always had tendencies toward narcicssm and lack of empathy.........but then, I feel that someone HAS to be completely mentally ill to be able to do what KC has allegedly done and to behave this way afterward.

KC is at the age some mental illnesses manifest- I don't claim to have knowledge of psychiatry but I wonder if her fantasy life, lying and stealing without a second thought, was a delusion as defined by psychiatry?? ???

 

[OneLostGrl]

I honestly think my first reaction is to say what a beast, what a sociopath KC is, but sometimes I really do wonder if she's always had tendencies toward narcicssm and lack of empathy.........but then, I feel that someone HAS to be completely mentally ill to be able to do what KC has allegedly done and to behave this way afterward.

KC is at the age some mental illnesses manifest- I don't claim to have knowledge of psychiatry but I wonder if her fantasy life, lying and stealing without a second thought, was a delusion as defined by psychiatry?? ???

The word I bolded in your post.. "fantasy life". Doesn't it seem to you that Casey's mother lives in a fantasy life as well? Not the exact same fantasy that Casey has made up for herself but Cindy has certainly made up her own alternate reality. (again, I am not trying to "bash", I am offering examples of "like" behaviors between mother and daughter). Though I have no doubt Casey has a personality disorder or 5, a great deal of her issues are learned behaviors and learned coping mechanisms. IMO.

 

[shgrbkr]

IIRC, KC talked about this separately to Annie and Michelle, then when Annie called her later that same evening, KC said she had talked with her mom and everything was OK. Never to mention it again. We must also remember that neither of these women believed KC had ever been pregnant and had a miscarriage. I agree. When KC made the big scene at the "no clothes" party it sounded like KC was being a bit of a drama queen, likely exacerbated by the alcohol.
Cindy, on the other hand, would probably have vehemently squelched any talk or thoughts about KC checking into a hospital for an emotional breakdown as it would look bad on the family. Cindy sure is some piece of work...."making" KC keep a baby when she wanted to place her for adoption, and then harrassing the heck out of KC when KC wasn't home to take care of Caylee, and THEN being overly critical of KC as a mother when she was taking care of Caylee, and to top it all off, trying to get Caylee to call her "mom."
Don't get me wrong here, I have NO sympathy for KC and what she's done to poor Caylee, but from what I've read, Cindy was indeed a horrible mother to her, and I personally think she has some culpability in this mess, though not the kind you can take to court.

 

[kline]

Thank you everyone for your well wishes.
There is a hearing tommorow to see wether he will remain hospitalized or be able to return home he sounded much better today after being stablized at the hospital.
This two week ordeal has certainly made me look at the glibness of many of my posts concerning the tragedy of this case in a different light.