Casey's Lies

[mitzi]

I only have one thing to say...

the "ignore button" is a wondrous thing! I use it often.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Fact, KC lies. Fact, KC is a liar, who allegedly committed a premeditated murder. It is my opinion that just because KC lied to LE, that does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of committing the premeditated murder she allegedly committed.

I do not know for a fact whether KC is innocent or guilty. Just because I am skeptical of the MT. Everest of Circumstantial evidence (as JA put it), and happen to question some of LE’s actions, some of the prosecutions actions, and some of the experts reports, does not make me a an evil troll or someone who cannot comprehend what I see and read. I want Justice for Caylee as much as anyone on this site. My idea of Justice for Caylee involves getting the right charges placed on the person who is responsible for where Caylee is today, and getting them convicted and penalized for their crimes. If the prosecution in this case has the evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KC is indeed guilty, and a jury of 12 unanimously convict her, then Justice for Caylee will have been served.

When something doesn’t add up for me, I question it. For instance, It is a fact that there is video of Caylee on Fathers day, June 15th. GA said he saw Caylee and KC on June 16th. 31 days after June 16th is July 17th. July 15th the day of the 911 call was 29 days after June 16th, July 16th when KC was arrested was 30 days after June 16th. Unless KC did not utter those words, I have not seen my daughter for 31 days, until the day after she was initially placed in jail, the 31 days that everyone always talks about is wrong. I may be wrong about this, I make mistakes, but the numbers just don’t add up for me. I know that whether a person waits 29, 30, or 31 days before reporting a child missing, any of the three would be way too long. The point is, if the 31 days is actually only 29 or 30 days, then maybe there are other things that have been taken for granted as being correct.

Have you heard the expression “a chain is only as strong as its weakest link” ? Isn’t it true that the chain of circumstantial evidence in the states case is only as strong as its weakest link? Or in what I think are legal terms, the prosecution must lay a foundation for its case. If the defense punches holes in the foundation the case will not hold up in court. If the prosecution builds this mile high building of a circumstantial case that looks fantastic and solid and unbreakable, but the defense removes a few key bricks from the foundation, no matter how fantastic and solid that building looks, it will tumble to the ground.

Are KC’s lies part of the prosecutions foundation of their case?

Some think the defense may read on this website, we know at one time LE was reading on this website. If a poster is so very certain KC is guilty, they should be very happy that some posters post from a defense perspective. If Le is still reading here, they may run across something they inadvertently overlooked, or simply had not thought of that the defense might use against them, and they would be able to figure out what to do about it before court, so when the defense brings it up in court, they already have an answer for it.
Looking at this case from all angles, can help one form a well rounded opinion. Opinions vary, and just because someone has an opinion that differs greatly from our own, does not make them a troublemaker, or evil, it just means that they are seeing things in a different light than we do. Just because I personally am sitting on the fence about whether KC is guilty or not guilty, and have opted to wait until I have heard all the evidence presented at trial before I decide one way or the other about whether I think she is guilty or innocent, only means that I prefer to see ALL THE EVIDENCE before I decide what to think. If believing in a fair trial, in truth, in justice, in our constitutional rights, and in the court system makes me a naïve, gullible simpleton, then so be it, because I believe very strongly in all those things. To go along with all that, I quote JA in my tagline, the defendant is presumed innocent of these charges! And until the jury reaches a verdict of Guilty, I will continue to presume the defendant is innocent.

My entire post is my opinion only.

 

[Kimster]

The principles of debate:
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(2) Debatable--that is, not obviously true or false. The statements should involve an honest difference of opinion, with arguments and evidence on both sides.
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(4) Restricted to set forth only one idea. This policy keeps the debate within narrow limits.
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The reason I've inserted the above is because there are no rules on WS against having a debate. In fact, I feel debating can create knowledge and knowledge can empower us to understand crime cases more completely.

As we read the principles of debate, let it be understood that personal attacks, personal "calling out", and personal pronouns are not mentioned. Allow me to simplify: "Have you ever been involved in a fox hunt and did you see her fall off the horse?" vs. "evidence provided thus far backs up the fact that she didn't fall off the horse".

If anyone here is having a problem understanding the principles of debate and chooses to continue to point at other posters, consequences will follow. Unless a member violates TOS, they have every right to comment. If you see a poster violating our Terms of Service, please use your alert button.

Another avenue to help alleviate frustration is using the Ignore Feature. Try it. If you don't like using it, you can always change it back.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Fact, KC lies. Fact, KC is a liar, who allegedly committed a premeditated murder. It is my opinion that just because KC lied to LE, that does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of committing the premeditated murder she allegedly committed.

I do not know for a fact whether KC is innocent or guilty. Just because I am skeptical of the MT. Everest of Circumstantial evidence (as JA put it), and happen to question some of LE’s actions, some of the prosecutions actions, and some of the experts reports, does not make me a an evil troll or someone who cannot comprehend what I see and read. I want Justice for Caylee as much as anyone on this site. My idea of Justice for Caylee involves getting the right charges placed on the person who is responsible for where Caylee is today, and getting them convicted and penalized for their crimes. If the prosecution in this case has the evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KC is indeed guilty, and a jury of 12 unanimously convict her, then Justice for Caylee will have been served.

When something doesn’t add up for me, I question it. For instance, It is a fact that there is video of Caylee on Fathers day, June 15th. GA said he saw Caylee and KC on June 16th. 31 days after June 16th is July 17th. July 15th the day of the 911 call was 29 days after June 16th, July 16th when KC was arrested was 30 days after June 16th. Unless KC did not utter those words, I have not seen my daughter for 31 days, until the day after she was initially placed in jail, the 31 days that everyone always talks about is wrong. I may be wrong about this, I make mistakes, but the numbers just don’t add up for me. I know that whether a person waits 29, 30, or 31 days before reporting a child missing, any of the three would be way too long. The point is, if the 31 days is actually only 29 or 30 days, then maybe there are other things that have been taken for granted as being correct.

Have you heard the expression “a chain is only as strong as its weakest link” ? Isn’t it true that the chain of circumstantial evidence in the states case is only as strong as its weakest link? Or in what I think are legal terms, the prosecution must lay a foundation for its case. If the defense punches holes in the foundation the case will not hold up in court. If the prosecution builds this mile high building of a circumstantial case that looks fantastic and solid and unbreakable, but the defense removes a few key bricks from the foundation, no matter how fantastic and solid that building looks, it will tumble to the ground.

Are KC’s lies part of the prosecutions foundation of their case?

Some think the defense may read on this website, we know at one time LE was reading on this website. If a poster is so very certain KC is guilty, they should be very happy that some posters post from a defense perspective. If Le is still reading here, they may run across something they inadvertently overlooked, or simply had not thought of that the defense might use against them, and they would be able to figure out what to do about it before court, so when the defense brings it up in court, they already have an answer for it.
Looking at this case from all angles, can help one form a well rounded opinion. Opinions vary, and just because someone has an opinion that differs greatly from our own, does not make them a troublemaker, or evil, it just means that they are seeing things in a different light than we do. Just because I personally am sitting on the fence about whether KC is guilty or not guilty, and have opted to wait until I have heard all the evidence presented at trial before I decide one way or the other about whether I think she is guilty or innocent, only means that I prefer to see ALL THE EVIDENCE before I decide what to think. If believing in a fair trial, in truth, in justice, in our constitutional rights, and in the court system makes me a naïve, gullible simpleton, then so be it, because I believe very strongly in all those things. To go along with all that, I quote JA in my tagline, the defendant is presumed innocent of these charges! And until the jury reaches a verdict of Guilty, I will continue to presume the defendant is innocent.

My entire post is my opinion only.

Of course it could be as simple as the fact that Casey was having a very good time, and lost track of the number of days since she last saw her child. She certainly wasn't counting the hours..!
Cindy was the first one to give June 9th as the wrong date that she saw her last- even she couldn't keep it straight. I don't know if that was simple confusion at the time as a result of anxiety, or from the deliberate confusion caused by Casey's convoluted lies about where she was each day, but none of them could swear to when they last saw her when she was reported 'missing'.
If you are looking for truth and consistency with Casey you may have a long wait...

 

[hand]

Of course it could be as simple as the fact that Casey was having a very good time, and lost track of the number of days since she last saw her child. She certainly wasn't counting the hours..!
Cindy was the first one to give June 9th as the wrong date that she saw her last- even she couldn't keep it straight. I don't know if that was simple confusion at the time as a result of anxiety, or from the deliberate confusion caused by Casey's convoluted lies about where she was each day, but none of them could swear to when they last saw her when she was reported 'missing'.
If you are looking for truth and consistency with Casey you may have a long wait...

I recall that in CA or LA depo with Morgan, it was stated that when the police first arrived, they were all able to hear what each said. I believe that KC was the first to use the June 9th date. The Ants heard KC and repeated the June 9th date because that is what KC said.
I do not have the link, but I am pretty sure this is what happened.

 

[Anais]

She didn't have to lie to get the police to help her. That makes no sense. We heard the tapes, they were trying to help her find caylee. She was lying because she is guilty.

ITA!

And after confronted with her lies she made up more stories like she had to lie and follow a script, oh or how about she was lying to protect her family! Never ending yarn spinning. Some real whoppers imo! In any case ICA did not have to lie to LE. They were begging for her to be honest so that they could find a LIVE Caylee, the thing is ICA knew that wasn't going to happen. Hence all of the lies and stories. JMHO :banghead:

 

[The World According]

I recall that in CA or LA depo with Morgan, it was stated that when the police first arrived, they were all able to hear what each said. I believe that KC was the first to use the June 9th date. The Ants heard KC and repeated the June 9th date because that is what KC said.
I do not have the link, but I am pretty sure this is what happened.

Here is mom describing how they came up with the 9th by mistake, watch the video: Cindy goes on in the clip about the hairbrush, the section about the date is at the beginning. God bless her, if you blink you'll miss it, she is speaking very quickly.

RAW VIDEO: http://www.wftv.com/video/18149829/index.html

WFTV.com NEWS Wednesday, November 26, 2008 – updated: 8:42 am

 

[strawberry]

Here is mom describing how they came up with the 9th by mistake, watch the video: Eyewitness News legal analyst Bill Scheaffer told Eyewitness News the obstruction of justice statute could apply.

”If she knowingly gave the investigators the wrong hairbrush, then I think there’s enough elasticity in this statute that one could bring a charge of obstructing justice,” Schaeffer said.

Cindy Anthony told Eyewitness News that she’s not afraid of being arrested. Eyewitness News also found out that it is unlikely the Anthonys would be charged since they lost their granddaughter, but the issues could affect their credibility if they try to defend Casey in court.

So is this “obstructing justice?” Eyewitness News looked up the legal definition: “An attempt to interfere with the administration of the courts, the judicial system or law enforcement officers, including threatening witnesses, improper conversations with jurors, hiding evidence, or interfering with an arrest. Such activity is a crime.”

RAW VIDEO: http://www.wftv.com/video/18149829/index.html

WFTV.com NEWS Wednesday, November 26, 2008 – updated: 8:42 am

Good grief that woman can talk. My ears hurt...she doesn't take a breath. What was all that about Larry Garrison taking money from NBC and not her?? I don't know much about that situation.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Here is mom describing how they came up with the 9th by mistake, watch the video: Eyewitness News legal analyst Bill Scheaffer told Eyewitness News the obstruction of justice statute could apply.

”If she knowingly gave the investigators the wrong hairbrush, then I think there’s enough elasticity in this statute that one could bring a charge of obstructing justice,” Schaeffer said.

Cindy Anthony told Eyewitness News that she’s not afraid of being arrested. Eyewitness News also found out that it is unlikely the Anthonys would be charged since they lost their granddaughter, but the issues could affect their credibility if they try to defend Casey in court.

So is this “obstructing justice?” Eyewitness News looked up the legal definition: “An attempt to interfere with the administration of the courts, the judicial system or law enforcement officers, including threatening witnesses, improper conversations with jurors, hiding evidence, or interfering with an arrest. Such activity is a crime.”

RAW VIDEO: http://www.wftv.com/video/18149829/index.html

WFTV.com NEWS Wednesday, November 26, 2008 – updated: 8:42 am

After watching that I need a cup of coffee! She doesn't even stop for 11 minutes+ for a breath! She conveniently forgets to mention the 'giving them the dogs hairbrush' comment she made... :banghead: I must have missed the part where she explains how the date was confused, she rambles on and on and ....

 

[JBean]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77267"]June 9 vs June 16 why the discrepancy? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[JBean]

Jbean was looking for that info earlier. Thanks for finding it TWA!

You ROCK!!!!

Don't worry about that nonsense friend. She is on videotape telling Lee at the jail that of course it wasn't the 9th, that in all the confusion she had heard Cindy use that date, after thinking it over she realized that was a mistake. He was telling her, hello.....come in Tokyo...don't you think, darlin' that it would be exceedingly helpful to correct that wrong information you gave them? She is on record many times with the 31 days and then there is this jailhouse visit where she concurs it was not the 9th. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-DK2Cd0RM (Lee tells Tony in the car on video that she lies, always lies, and everything she ever told him was B S!)

snipped

Thank you for finally giving a reasonable answer to a reasonable question.

It is funny because many said that everyone should be able to locate this infomration and that the question was from left field and not worthy of a response.

But in reality you are the ONLY person that could actually locate something that refelcted it at all.


Even if we are sure we know the answer, others may or may not and providing a link is almost always helpful. Because while "go read the docs" is sort of helpful, in this case I am still not sure it was even in the docs



Maybe we could all be a little kinder to each other when we ask questions about the case, especially when the question is a good one. Taking a moment to post this youtube at least shows us something!

So let's move on to the threads intention which was supposed to be a list type outliine of her lies and any in depth discussion on a specific aspect of these issues should go to their respective threads.

 

[The World According]

Often....in this case.......I pause for a moment to remember that logic and reason typically outweigh deception and fiction. When one must "work an angle or a story"....it usually, IMO, means it isn't logical or rational.

Sleuther....can you get a memo on this to the defense straight away?

 

[Turnadot]

Thank you for finally giving a reasonable answer to a reasonable question.

It is funny because many said that everyone should be able to locate this infomration and that the question was from left field and not worthy of a response.

But in reality you are the ONLY person that could actually locate something that refelcted it at all.


Even if we are sure we know the answer, others may or may not and providing a link is almost always helpful. Because while "go read the docs" is sort of helpful, in this case I am still not sure it was even in the docs



Maybe we could all be a little kinder to each other when we ask questions about the case, especially when the question is a good one. Taking a moment to post this youtube at least shows us something!

So let's move on to the threads intention which was supposed to be a list type outliine of her lies and any in depth discussion on a specific aspect of these issues should go to their respective threads.

Well, now I feel terrible, so I'm sorry for not posting the link. I Googled last night and found the information in less than fifteen minutes, so I assumed anyone wanting to know about what KC said about the June dates did too. And you know what they say about assumptions. I'm sorry if anyone felt ignored, and I'll try to remember to post links from now on. It wasn't my intention to be impolite and ignore anyone.

Thanks, JBean, for the friendly reminder about kindness.

 

[JBean]

Well, now I feel terrible, so I'm sorry for not posting the link. I Googled last night and found the information in less than fifteen minutes, so I assumed anyone wanting to know about what KC said about the June dates did too. And you know what they say about assumptions. I'm sorry if anyone felt ignored, and I'll try to remember to post links from now on. It wasn't my intention to be impolite and ignore anyone.

Thanks, JBean, for the friendly reminder about kindness.

you are very welcome. It is nothing new to provide a link for information. We try and do it whenever we can

It is nice to know we can ask each other questions and be treated with kindess and respect. Some members get intimidated to ask questions because they are afraid people will respond with "get up to speed "or"check the docs" or "we already discussed that".

So for the poster that asked the question,3 days later and a lot of searcing and argument, there is the answer to your question.

oh the question was :when and did KC actually change her statement from the 9th to the 16th.

 

[RR0004]

Just one word about the dates...they never worked...which led a lot of us to wonder early on if George told the truth. The only one that puts Casey home with Caylee that day (the 16th) is George. There is alot that's confusing about the initial dates of disappearance and the reporting of this info, but it all ties to what the Anthony family (including Casey) has stated. Now, whether they all got together to mislead LE and the public...well only they know.

 

[JBean]

Just one word about the dates...they never worked...which led a lot of us to wonder early on if George told the truth. The only one that puts Casey home with Caylee that day (the 16th) is George. There is alot that's confusing about the initial dates of disappearance and the reporting of this info, but it all ties to what the Anthony family (including Casey) has stated. Now, whether they all got together to mislead LE and the public...well only they know.

Oh yes the dates are a disaster and always have been! That was exposed a long time ago. But let's take the date debacle to the date disceprancy thread. Thanks

 

[Bittiness39]

Just within the context of KC's lies (not date discrepancies which are for the other thread): On the phone with the 911 operator (CA's 3rd 911 phone call that day the cops arrived at the HopeSpring addy) KC clearly says that she has not seen her daughter in 31days. I believe in a subsequent written report she writes and signs to as much. I don't think it was KC that broached the date of the 9th. I think her parents did so...it was only after the photos in the nursing home were found on the computer that the police brought the Father's Day stuff to GA and CA's attention and they revised the date of the 9th to the 15th.

So I guess if we are going with truthful...in this one sense, KC was not lying when she essentially said she had not seen Caylee in 31 days...which is for all intents and purposes correct. Because the 9th would have been closer to 40 days not 31. So even though I believe she was lying in the sense that she claims not to have seen Caylee (dead or alive) all of that time...she was correct/truthful (?) about the time Caylee's life was stolen from the world.

But back to lies: The most detrimental one, I believed, at the time was the lie that she had talked to her daughter via an incoming phone call to KC's phone from the "abuctor" Zanny. Pardon the pun...but it was such a ridiculous and unnecessary lie. Easily sussed out by LE. Total overkill. "Yeah officers...Caylee is okay cuz I talked to her on the phone and she went on and on about some book and not being sad or missing anyone or anything...she was happy as a lark...so you see, ya'll can all go about your business and go back to the sheriff's station or whatever...because she totally was on the phone with me earlier and she's fine...and you can totally take my word for it....cuz I am as truthful as a politician in the midst of a sex scandal. Can I borrow a phone so I can text Tony now? I don't want him thinking like, you know, the worst of me or anything."

 

[RR0004]

I think that while the detectives had KC at Universal, they were under the impression Caylee had been missing since June 9th. I think KC may have also been under that impression because CA had said it earlier. Yes, KC lies, she admitted as much during the time she was talking with the three detectives at Universal. All of them, KC included thought Caylee had last been seen on June 9th, and that misguided thought caused the detectives to ask questions about the incorrect date. Also, if they instructed other officers to check out this place or that place to see if KC had been there on the 9th, it would have resulted in information about the wrong date. CA started the 9th error, but I believe it was a simple honest mistake on her part. Everyone else went along with it without questioning it, UNTIL later when the video from Fathers Day showed up. The point I think is, that some misinformation could have resulted from everyone investigating the incorrect date. It all has been straightened out and corrected now.
As far as the police doing the good cop bad cop routine with KC, that is common practice with officers and detectives, and has been accepted practice for a long time. I think LE may have been able to obtain much more information from KC had they not arrested her as early as they did. I think they believed her arrest would scare her into telling the truth, and they believed she knew where Caylee was, so they felt they would scare KC into the truth and get to the real story. Unfortunately, they were wrong.
LE knew she was lying, she even told them she had lied, but once she was arrested, and lawyered up, she no longer told them any more lies or anything else for that matter. Had they not arrested her so soon, she may have given them a lot more information, on the other hand, so much of what she said was untrue, that perhaps they would not have been able to gain any more information they could use anyway. Either way, LE did what it felt it had to do, and its done and over with.
Lying to the police is not good, but, and even though I know there are some saints on this site, I ask you, When an officer pulls you over on the interstate and asks you how fast were you going? OR when an officer pulls you over and asks you have you been drinking? Have you been completely truthful in answering those questions each and every time (and for those of us who may be a tad bit past 22 years old think back to when we were young)? Yes, I know it would be a different situation if my child, or grandchild was missing, but the fact is even though it isn’t good to lie to the police, people do it anyway.
KC will pay the price for lying to the police, as there are four counts of obstructing justice or whatever, just the same, proving she is a liar does not prove she was a premeditated murder, that my friends is a whole different ball of wax. As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

With all due respect...in regards to who lived where and did what...the exact date of June 9th IMO had no bearing in questioning. It didn't put ZFG or anyone associated with ZFG anywhere near the addresses investigated. I'm sure that the police don't just ask if that person lived there on June 9th...if Casey worked at Universal on July 16th...they would use the word "ever" I imagine. As far as questioning about the 9th...should we go back and look at club photos to see if Casey was investigating Caylee's disappearance June 10th onward? Were there other questions that would have been answered differently if they used the starting date(s) of June 15th or 16th? Personally, I think a lie is a lie is a lie. But, if anyone believes that Casey would have answered some of the questions differently if she knew exactly when she "lost" her daughter (so sad typing that), I think that would be a great basis for a thread.

 

[MissJames]

Just one word about the dates...they never worked...which led a lot of us to wonder early on if George told the truth. The only one that puts Casey home with Caylee that day (the 16th) is George. There is alot that's confusing about the initial dates of disappearance and the reporting of this info, but it all ties to what the Anthony family (including Casey) has stated. Now, whether they all got together to mislead LE and the public...well only they know.

I agree. Of course the dates are relevent to the case,but I don't understand why some posters are saying that ICA was confused .Regardless of the date,she was describing what was supposed to be the last time she saw Caylee. Dropping Caylee off at Sawgrass with ZFG ,the last time ICA had her,was a lie.
Whatever ICA did on the 9th,the 16th ,or any day in between,she did NOT drop Caylee off at that (empty) apartment with ZFG,and go to her job at Universal.
Whether it's a lie or not, GA has placed Caylee in ICA's care,and as the last to see her alive.He states Caylee got in the car with ICA. That is the last time anyone reportedly saw Caylee alive.It gives credence to the aggravating factor the Caylee died in her mother's care.How ironic,if GA was not telling the truth about that.

 

[RR0004]

Oh yes the dates are a disaster and always have been! That was exposed a long time ago. But let's take the date debacle to the date disceprancy thread. Thanks

Thanks, JB...I was going to type..."a story for another thread". Thanks for making that clear...though I still think there's a lie in there somewhere...lol.