Casey's seizure? NEW INFORMATION 2011.09.08

[ZsaZsa]

Let's go back for a moment and consider, because rumors take on a life of their own.
Seizures.
Where did the information about seizures come from? What validated source?

Well, JG describes "one" - that was unconfirmed by a hospital visit.

Dr. Krop mentions "six" "apparent" seizures during the three years in jail.
Unconfirmed.

Ann Finnell mentions she is going to do an investigation to discover whether or not FKC suffered a traumatic brain injury as a child. Unconfirmed as to findings.

Am I missing something? Why are we so certain she has even had a seizure? Would this not have been a fact CA would have been shouting from the rooftops if there was a history.

Can any poster give me any other information because I seem to be missing something. Thx.

All we have is her word for it.
The 'seizure' that JG observed was never followed up on, which tells me it was bogus. She would have been referred to her Primary MD or a Neurologist for an EEG and CT scan at the least, following a new seizure....

 

[logicalgirl]

All we have is her word for it.
The 'seizure' that JG observed was never followed up on, which tells me it was bogus. She would have been referred to her Primary MD or a Neurologist for an EEG and CT scan at the least, following a new seizure....

Yes, that was my understanding - the visit to the hospital resulted in an "unconfirmed" event. And then nothing, until FKC was in jail...

 

[logicalgirl]

It seems to me that if KC suffered from any type of exculpatory medical condition we would have heard and heard and heard about it for the past three years.

Also, as others have said, even if she did and it led to Caylee's death, it wouldn't satisfactorily explain her ice coldness about the death after the seizure had passed. It wouldn't explain the duct tape. It wouldn't explain her looking so evilly smug and triumphant in court when she was acquitted, or as she climbed into the SUV as she left jail. She probably wouldn't have been rushing around energetically visiting TL and getting movies and having sex all the next day. She wouldn't think a new epoch of Bella Vita had commenced in her life, or, had the tattoo been truly commemorative, you might expect a tear or two when she discussed it with the tattoo artist, not a bunch of happy lies about Caylee's summer vacation. Etc. Etc.

That jury would have bought it though I'm sure.

I'm not a fan of CA, but I find it hard to believe she would leave Caylee with FKC as her primary caregiver if she knew FKC had seizures - without making sure she was on some form of medication to keep Caylee safe....

 

[Granna6]

yes Jesse G called 911 regarding what appeared to him to be a grand mal seizure back whenever that was (anyone remember, presumably back when they were dating 2006 or something. And she mentioned in the jailhouse letters that her family had told her she sometimes had what looked like seizures "while sleeping", that they were believed to be due to stress, and that she "has to take something for a headache" if she feels one coming on (she would know better if she'd been in the care of a doctor.) We never saw anything that indicated that she ever had these episodes properly evaluated and diagnosed by a neurologist. That was another thing that was so strange, that Cindy, a nurse, wouldn't have taken Casey to a neurologist for whatever this was. Similar to the thing with Casey's pregnancy.
I guess her defense team also didn't get her a medical diagnosis or else they probably would have mentioned it. Her strange stories always sounded to me like they could have a medical cause, i.e. as in Confabulation and similar disorders. Because the stories she told didn't serve any purpose, only made her look like a liar. In something like 40% of cases of "compulsive lying" it's actually a medical/memory disorder, people with these disorders often have history of seizures, abnormal EEG, history of CNS infection, etc.
I always said if I were her defense team the first thing I would have done would have been get EEGs etc on her. Brain injuries often go undiagnosed. Confabulation and other disorders can be mistaken for compulsive lying. I always thought her stories sounded a lot like confabulations the way she would mix up elements of real memory out of temporal context, etc, and interspere other erroneous elements. This is what some brains with various memory disorders do, the sufferer can't distinguish between what is the real memory and what is just extraneous information their brain has gap-filled with. There was never any evidence that she in fact is a psychopath, she doesn't have any history of psychopathic behavior, she was known as a kind and considerate person. The only similarity to psychopathy is the "compulsive lying" feature and the stealing, but these can occur in breakdowns and with many different disorders. It could be a different disorder altogether imo. Many medical and psychiatric disorders would have to be excluded before she can be diagnosed as a psychopath. For example, does she have episodes of delirium or disorientation due to any medical cause, or does she have a delusional disorder, etc

Informative post. I'd expect someone (her mom, defense team, etc.) to have ordered a full neuro workup. In fact, do TWO just for a second opinion. I'm pretty sure seizure disorders leave a concrete trail such as EEG data, etc. You'd think her defense team would want to get to the bottom of what makes her tick. If all brain function were normal, then wouldn't that leave psych problems/character disorders/just plain meanness as the basis of her sociopathy?

 

[denjet]

Let's go back for a moment and consider, because rumors take on a life of their own.
Seizures.
Where did the information about seizures come from? What validated source?

Well, JG describes "one" - that was unconfirmed by a hospital visit.

Dr. Krop mentions "six" "apparent" seizures during the three years in jail.
Unconfirmed.

Ann Finnell mentions she is going to do an investigation to discover whether or not FKC suffered a traumatic brain injury as a child. Unconfirmed as to findings.

Am I missing something? Why are we so certain she has even had a seizure? Would this not have been a fact CA would have been shouting from the rooftops if there was a history.

Can any poster give me any other information because I seem to be missing something. Thx.

I'm pretty sure there has been NO medical confirmation of KC EVER having ANY seizures, period ...
I would think that if the defense could have played that up and backed it up with medical records they most certainly would have ... but, they can't ... anymore than they can back up their accusations about George ... no evidence whatsoever ...

It's as bogus as the defense's theory of what happened to Caylee, IMO ...

 

[denjet]

Informative post. I'd expect someone (her mom, defense team, etc.) to have ordered a full neuro workup. In fact, do TWO just for a second opinion. I'm pretty sure seizure disorders leave a concrete trail such as EEG data, etc. You'd think her defense team would want to get to the bottom of what makes her tick. If all brain function were normal, then wouldn't that leave psych problems/character disorders/just plain meanness as the basis of her sociopathy?

Exactly ... my daughter had akentic seizures as a baby ... she would pass out ... turn pale, her breathing would get shallow ... the first thing the pediatrician did was a brain wave test with those electrodes ... all came back normal
However, she would still have them ... and we finally figured out they were from fright/shock ... being scared suddenly or falling out of control like backwards ...

My point is she only had about 4 before starting school and I had her tested twice !! As an adult, she's run into bouts where they are frequent and again worn a monitor and electrodes and been tested ... all test normal ... stress played a part in the adult ones ...

Seizures are not something you just ignore ... KC's a liar and faker and I can't for the life of me understand ANYONE believing ANYTHING she says ... :banghead:

 

[sacrablue]

When my son is seizing, it is often in his sleep.FWIW, I think it is fairly common, as seizures go.

Does your son have grand mal seizures in his sleep?

 

[gngr~snap]

Exactly ... my daughter had akentic seizures as a baby ... she would pass out ... turn pale, her breathing would get shallow ... the first thing the pediatrician did was a brain wave test with those electrodes ... all came back normal
However, she would still have them ... and we finally figured out they were from fright/shock ... being scared suddenly or falling out of control like backwards ...

My point is she only had about 4 before starting school and I had her tested twice !! As an adult, she's run into bouts where they are frequent and again worn a monitor and electrodes and been tested ... all test normal ... stress played a part in the adult ones ...

Seizures are not something you just ignore ... KC's a liar and faker and I can't for the life of me understand ANYONE believing ANYTHING she says ... :banghead:

Krop, 68, said Anthony's friends noticed a change in her personality beginning in 2007. At about the same time, Anthony began suffering from seizures. Krop said Anthony has had six documented seizures during her jail stay. “She was taken to the hospital for one of those seizures,” he said.
Orange County Jail spokesman Allen Moore said any medical record of any inmate would be confidential under state and federal law
http://www.ocala.com/article/20110716/ARTICLES/110719773?p=3&tc=pg
They were not ignored by the jail her file is sealed.

One more medical issue that was ignored by her and her family -
If she was faking, we'd have seen one during the trial on national television.
She has them in her sleep from what I gather. She doesn't drop in the floor.

KC is a liar. KC isn't the person telling us about them.

 

[JBean]

Does your son have grand mal seizures in his sleep?

Yes he does;but mostly when he is in the shower.

 

[JBean]

Informative post. I'd expect someone (her mom, defense team, etc.) to have ordered a full neuro workup. In fact, do TWO just for a second opinion. I'm pretty sure seizure disorders leave a concrete trail such as EEG data, etc. You'd think her defense team would want to get to the bottom of what makes her tick. If all brain function were normal, then wouldn't that leave psych problems/character disorders/just plain meanness as the basis of her sociopathy?

I concur that a full neuro work up is what anyone would do after a seizure. SOP no doubt about it. But even with a full neuro work up all results can be normal. Sometimes my son's eegs would show epileptiform and sometimes not. It is only a snapshot in time. They do not necessarily leave a concrete trail.
.

 

[txsvicki]

Just like the pregnancy!. CA ws not going to have her perfect daughter evaluated.
So if I'm going with the masses there is NO evidence of physical or sexual abuse of KC. BUT something is wrong.. CA was trying to play that off as nothing either.
I think KC did have a work up. Her "team" knows whats going on now.

Remember Lee got real sick too about the same age. From Accutane?
MUST have been some BAD acne! That stuff can cause liver failure- but it's no longer on the market thank goodness.
Cindy KNOWS what KC's problem is!

Don't shoot me!! What IF KC had a seizure while Caylee in the pool alone with her? Ca wasn't worried OR wht if while driving with Caylee!
No OB visits! KC told her in April/May she was PG. -srsly Who has an equal if not more significant problem here?
CA is a nurse she KNOWS better why doesn't SHE care?
Like mother like daughter apple/tree gee

Does anyone or has it been said what was wrong with Lee to make him so sick? If there was no reason for his being so sick, then maybe that is something that he ought to look into. I doubt if the family can pull out of their own denial long enough to have any suspicion though.

 

[Pensfan]

Here is one very probable reason for KC's seizures: Abrupt cessation of alcohol intake after prolonged heavy drinking
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312739/

Her seizures in jail were likely psychogenic nonepileptic seizures caused by a desire to be removed from her cell and taken to the infirmary where there would be people with whom she could socialize.

 

[Pensfan]

J

Remember Lee got real sick too about the same age. From Accutane?
MUST have been some BAD acne! That stuff can cause liver failure- but it's no longer on the market thank goodness.

Respectfully shortened

Accutane is still on the market.

 

[gngr~snap]

Respectfully shortened

Accutane is still on the market.

Not in the US

June 29, 2009 -- Nutley, N.J.
Roche Discontinues and Plans to Delist Accutane in the U.S.
Hoffmann-La Roche Inc. has notified the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
(FDA) of its intent to immediately discontinue the manufacture and distribution​

of Accutane® (isotretinoin), its ground-breaking treatment for severe recalcitrant...
http://www.rocheusa.com/portal/synergy/static/file/synergy/alfproxy/download/1414-cd2ddc12b4d211deadd62f6357bc6b3c/last/roche%20discontinues%20and%20plans%20to%20delist%20accutane%20in%20the%20u.s..pdf

the generis form is Claravis, Amnesteem and Sotret .
Roche had so many lawsuits AND it was being made as a generic drug so it was no longer profitable for them to continue marketing it in the US It has been reported to cause IBS and
other severe intestinal (lifelong) problemsas well.

 

[mrsu]

Several generic versions of accutane are still available, only the brand name by that particular company was discontinued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotretinoin

 

[Pensfan]

Not in the US

June 29, 2009 -- Nutley, N.J.
Roche Discontinues and Plans to Delist Accutane in the U.S.
Hoffmann-La Roche Inc. has notified the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
(FDA) of its intent to immediately discontinue the manufacture and distribution​

of Accutane® (isotretinoin), its ground-breaking treatment for severe recalcitrant...
http://www.rocheusa.com/portal/synergy/static/file/synergy/alfproxy/download/1414-cd2ddc12b4d211deadd62f6357bc6b3c/last/roche%20discontinues%20and%20plans%20to%20delist%20accutane%20in%20the%20u.s..pdf

the generis form is Claravis, Amnesteem and Sotret .
Roche had so many lawsuits AND it was being made as a generic drug so it was no longer profitable for them to continue marketing it in the US It has been reported to cause IBS and
other severe intestinal (lifelong) problemsas well.

It is still for sale in the US. I am a licensed nurse practitioner that prescribes, but I cannot prescribe this. Physicians are not allowed to prescribe it without a very specific prescription form that they are given when they complete the manufacture's educational course. After completing the educational course by the manufacturer, the doc must agree to other terms set form by the manufacturer. The patient must have liver enzymes tested every month. All female patients will have a HCG test EVERY month. Pharmacies will not dispense Accutane without the very specific prescription from the manufacturer (a prescription written for Accutane on a regular prescription pad will not be filled by any pharmacy.) The patient must also answer a questionnaire which provides details that he/she understands the potential birth defects which Accutane can cause.

 

[JBean]

One of my other sons tried taking accutane but it made him crazy in the head so he had to go off of it. It makes your brain swell, man it was a long 9 months on that stuff.
I don't know about other areas of the country, but here it is prescribed for even the mildest acne.

 

[JBean]

It is still for sale, but physicians are not allowed to prescribe it without a very specific prescription form that they are given when they complete the manufacture's educational course. After completing the educational course by the manufacturer, the doc must agree to other terms set form by the manufacturer. The patient must have liver enzymes tested every month. All female patients will have a HCG test EVERY month. Pharmacies will not dispense Accutane without the very specific prescription from the manufacturer (a prescription written for Accutane on a regular prescription pad will not be filled by any pharmacy.) The patient must also answer a questionnaire which provides details that he/she understands the potential birth defects which Accutane can cause.

HI stranger. I was on accutane 15 years ago and even then I had to do all that. My tubes were tied and I still had to pledge to use a secondary form of BC and have a PG test and liver enzymes test monthly. The ipledge program came about by the time my then 17 yo went on it, but that turned into a disaster and he went off if it.

 

[Pensfan]

HI stranger. I was on accutane 15 years ago and even then I had to do all that. My tubes were tied and I still had to pledge to use a secondary form of BC and have a PG test and liver enzymes test monthly. The ipledge program came about by the time my then 17 yo went on it, but that turned into a disaster and he went off if it.

Hi! That is scary about your son and this medication. These types of scary stories are frequently heard with this med. It must be very effective because patients are still taking it even with all the horror stories.

 

[claudicici]

Here is one very probable reason for KC's seizures: Abrupt cessation of alcohol intake after prolonged heavy drinking
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312739/

Her seizures in jail were likely psychogenic nonepileptic seizures caused by a desire to be removed from her cell and taken to the infirmary where there would be people with whom she could socialize.

KC was reportedly not a heavy drinker though....