Catholic Church to open its doors to gay priests

[concernedperson]

She left with a guy who had a hammer, hmmmm.....

Yes, it was pretty weird. But, hey, I am not a nun so I don't the prerequsites.

 

[michelle]

I guess she was tired of being a nun and wanted to explore the wordly options??

 

[JBean]

I guess she was tired of being a nun and wanted to explore the wordly options??

I have a cousin that was a nun. She ultimately fell in love with a priest and they left their order and got married. They are very happy and living in Italy!

 

[michelle]

I had a cousin that was nun. She ultimately fell in love with a priest and they left their order and got married. They are very happy and living in Italy!

Thats great!!!

 

[JBean]

Thats great!!!

Truly, it was great. Very lovely people and they made a cute couple. They are still devoted to God, but just in a different way.

 

[TisHerself]

--------------
Casshew you are so funny!! Catholics go to confession,Lutherans confess to God and ask forgiveness,if one has a special need to make confession to the Clergy it is easily arranged.There are many similiar beliefs in these two Religons and many differances...I or I should say we have homosexual friends of both sexes..The ones' we know~would I trust him/her to babysit a young child if we had one? Yes I would.Being homosexual as far as I am concerned does not make one a pedo...from what I have seen they prefer their own age group for a mate.For what sins I have made I expect God to sit in Judgement I feel the same towards homosexuals~He will Judge ~not me.I did read an article recently where the Catholic Church has a lack of young men who want to enter the Priesthood.I'm sure all the bad publicity has not helped and I feel so sorry for the ones who are genuine in their Love for God..How does one tell if someone is celebate? I am not being smart,truly asking.I hope I haven't made someone want to "chew me up and spit me out".

Casshew,in our Lutheran Church we do genuflect while confessing our sins~very solumn moment,also after recieving Communion and during some prayers.
If I appear spaced out I am,meds for flu and COPD..We also kneel a lot.

Actually the enrollment for young men in Catholic Semanaries has risen higher this year than it has over the past 20 yrs. Below is just one Semanary but there a several with the same statistics. Contrary to what everyone thinks the cleansing that happened to The Church after the scandal was a good thing. Now young men who really have a vocation to serve God know they can enter The Priesthood and do just that. The Priesthood will survive and grow and the young men coming in now who choose that as their life work I feel will be truly Blessed.

September 8, 2005
The largest enrollment in 20 years — that’s the pride of St. John Vianney College Seminary on the University of St. Thomas campus, which is bursting at the seams this fall.

This year the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis ordained 15 priests — the largest number in 40 years.

 

[Dark Knight]

--------------
Casshew you are so funny!! Catholics go to confession,Lutherans confess to God and ask forgiveness,if one has a special need to make confession to the Clergy it is easily arranged..How does one tell if someone is celebate? I am not being smart,truly asking.I hope I haven't made someone want to "chew me up and spit me out".

Casshew,in our Lutheran Church we do genuflect while confessing our sins~very solumn moment,also after recieving Communion and during some prayers.
If I appear spaced out I am,meds for flu and COPD..We also kneel a lot.

We also confess to God and Jesus, but scripture speaks of confessing sins to one another and forgiving them, as well.

As far as celibacy, the Church just has to take their word on it and assume they are being truthful when they take the vow of celibacy, as well.

 

[Casshew]

From what I read around the web.... new priests are down, same for nuns etc...

In the U.S. and in most of Europe, the Catholic Church is having real problems recruiting people into the nunneries and monasteries.

According to Sisters, by John J. Fialka, there were 180,000 nuns in the United States in the mid 1960s. By 2002 or thereabouts, there were only 75,000, and their average age was 69.

According to a 2000 report on CNN.com, more priests die every year than are ordained in the U.S. In 2000, the U.S. was down to about 27,000 active priests, and their average age was 57.

According to a 2005 report by Dean R. Hoge, 71% of the U.S. Catholic laity and 56% of U.S. priests favor abandoning the celibacy requirement for diocesan priests. 62% of U.S. Catholic laity favor ordaining celebate women, and 53% favor ordaining married women.

Having said that, the USA is just a part of the Catholic Church and statistics in Europe...etc may be up...

 

[sandraladeda]

Actually the enrollment for young men in Catholic Semanaries has risen higher this year than it has over the past 20 yrs. Below is just one Semanary but there a several with the same statistics. Contrary to what everyone thinks the cleansing that happened to The Church after the scandal was a good thing. Now young men who really have a vocation to serve God know they can enter The Priesthood and do just that. The Priesthood will survive and grow and the young men coming in now who choose that as their life work I feel will be truly Blessed.

September 8, 2005
The largest enrollment in 20 years — that’s the pride of St. John Vianney College Seminary on the University of St. Thomas campus, which is bursting at the seams this fall.

This year the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis ordained 15 priests — the largest number in 40 years.

As a Catholic, I see a resurgence of faith, particularly among Catholic youth. I believe this is a direct result of our late Pope John Paul II's focus on youth. Churches have grown their youth programs, and many of our young people are now growing up with a faith community of their peers, within the larger community of their parish. They are able to live their faith, at an age-appropriate level, in a way that interests them, applying principles of their faith to issues of their age group, such as smoking and drugs, sex, bullying, etc. It's not just the church their mom and dad drag them to anymore!

I see youth today who are way more evolved in their faith as a result, and are way more open to the possibility of one day feeling "called" to the priesthood or any other form of religious service.

 

[TisHerself]

As a Catholic, I see a resurgence of faith, particularly among Catholic youth. I believe this is a direct result of our late Pope John Paul II's focus on youth. Churches have grown their youth programs, and many of our young people are now growing up with a faith community of their peers, within the larger community of their parish. They are able to live their faith, at an age-appropriate level, in a way that interests them, applying principles of their faith to issues of their age group, such as smoking and drugs, sex, bullying, etc. It's not just the church their mom and dad drag them to anymore!

I see youth today who are way more evolved in their faith as a result, and are way more open to the possibility of one day feeling "called" to the priesthood or any other form of religious service.

That is exactly what is happening the Church is going to have a regrowth because of the faith of it's youth. And it is because of John Paul 11 Youth Ministry.

 

[TisHerself]

In the U.S. and in most of Europe, the Catholic Church is having real problems recruiting people into the nunneries and monasteries.

According to Sisters, by John J. Fialka, there were 180,000 nuns in the United States in the mid 1960s. By 2002 or thereabouts, there were only 75,000, and their average age was 69.

According to a 2000 report on CNN.com, more priests die every year than are ordained in the U.S. In 2000, the U.S. was down to about 27,000 active priests, and their average age was 57.

According to a 2005 report by Dean R. Hoge, 71% of the U.S. Catholic laity and 56% of U.S. priests favor abandoning the celibacy requirement for diocesan priests. 62% of U.S. Catholic laity favor ordaining celebate women, and 53% favor ordaining married women.
**************************************************************




I don't know about Nuns because I haven't looked into it but it wouldn't surprise me if it has dropped that much since 1960. There are so many 3rd orders now that many women choose that rather than become nuns.

As for CNN 's report that more priests die than are ordained that does not surprise me either. But their numbers are way off in 1995 Diocesan Priests were 32,349, in 2005 Diocesan Priests 28,375 1995 Priestly Ordinations 511
2005 Priestly Ordinations 454, 1995 Graduate Level Semanarians 3,172
2005 Graduate Level Semanarians 3, 308
I just found The Sisters 1995 Religious Sisters 90,809, 2005 Religious Sisters
68,634 (you were right)

Dean Hoge report is way off also 71% of the Catholic Laity do not favor abandoning celibacy for Priests nor do 56% of Priests that is absurd.
Why would 62% favor ordaining celibate women but not celibate men that makes no sense. 53% favor ordaining married women I have never even heard of that being proposed so how can 53% be in favor of it?

The bottom line is The Priesthood of The Catholic Church is not in any danger of collapse as many non Catholics seem to think (or Hope). The Sexual Scandal that rocked The Church was horrific and destroyed many many young peoples lives. I as a Catholic have great Faith that the cleansing that took place, and the youth that will be Our future Priests will make it The Priesthood that God meant it to be.

 

[Nova]

Actually, this is a common misconception about the church. The Catechism of the Catholic church does not say that homosexuality is a sin, the church does not condemn homosexuals, nor is there any belief that this is a lifestyle choice.

In fact, the actual words from the Catechism are respectful of the challenges associated with homosexual orientation and forbids "every sign of unjust discrimination." (2358)

The sin, according to the Catechism, is in the act, but the act is no more or less sinful than any other sex act outside the bonds of marriage, or many other sins which we as human commit daily. While the church does set a goal that we strive towards (such as chastity for those who are unmarried, whether heterosexual or homosexual), it also recognizes that we are fallible, that we are imperfect. Therefore we have the wonderful gift of the sacrament of reconciliation, where the slate is wiped clean and we can try to do better this time.

I am not saying that this is right or wrong. It just bugs me when people make blanket statements about Catholicism that are not true, like the time my friend told me that I believed someone we knew was in hell after he committed suicide. Yes, she actually told me what I believed, based on the fact that I am Catholic. When I read her the statement on suicide in the Catechism, she was dumbfounded, because it had nothing to do with what she believed about the church or what she had been told (by Protestants) all of her life.

You are right in terms of official doctrine, of course. But the Church adds to the confusion by, for example, banning homosexuals, celibate or no, from the priesthood, even if only temporarily. And by opposing civil rights for homosexuals (again, whether or not they are engaged in sexual behavior) in many jurisdictions. And then, too, individual clergy often share societal prejudices, regardless of doctrine.

We shouldn't be surprised if some think the Church does a poor job sometimes of "loving the sinner."

 

[Nova]

They came from Arkansas (mostly Ozark communities), Missouri (also Ozarks), Alabama (rural), Mississippi (rural) and Tennessee (rural). From what I remember, they mostly ranged between 11 and 15. I particularly remember my roomie describing being "picked up" while sitting on the swings in the playground when he was 12 by a man who was probably in his 30s, taken to his home, and bent over the lip of the bathtub and anally penetrated. The man had walked into the bathroom, which did not have a lock on it. The man told him that he (the roomie) wanted him to do it because he left with him in the first place and that meant he was gay and no one would believe he didn't want it done to him.

I would probably be more forgiving to the local gay community re this incident if I hadn't discovered that they had all known about his previous arrest and that the pedophile in question had a very wide reputation amongst them as a chickenhawk. Their decision to close ranks against a man who has publically refuted being a homosexual, to the point of making it clear he considers it a perversion, despite knowing the truth about him has made me exceptioally distrustful re agendas.

Well, I certainly don't blame you for being angry and distrustful, Billy. As I said, what you describe is far outside my experience. I suspect the situation you witnessed has much to do with a relatively rural area where other forms of gay congregation are rare.

But I promise you gays in the areas where I have lived did not and do not condone child molestation (or the sort of rape you describe) - not even nobody else is around.

 

[angelmom]

You are right in terms of official doctrine, of course. But the Church adds to the confusion by, for example, banning homosexuals, celibate or no, from the priesthood, even if only temporarily. And by opposing civil rights for homosexuals (again, whether or not they are engaged in sexual behavior) in many jurisdictions. And then, too, individual clergy often share societal prejudices, regardless of doctrine.

We shouldn't be surprised if some think the Church does a poor job sometimes of "loving the sinner."

I think this is something that is true of society as a whole, and not just the Catholic church. Official doctrine or policy cannot force people to change their biases or opinions, and there are people in every walk of life who are adept at concealing bigotry and hate from their employers. I think you will find this is true of politicians, LE, CEOs, teachers, coaches, doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs.

 

[TisHerself]

You are right in terms of official doctrine, of course. But the Church adds to the confusion by, for example, banning homosexuals, celibate or no, from the priesthood, even if only temporarily. And by opposing civil rights for homosexuals (again, whether or not they are engaged in sexual behavior) in many jurisdictions. And then, too, individual clergy often share societal prejudices, regardless of doctrine.

We shouldn't be surprised if some think the Church does a poor job sometimes of "loving the sinner."

No one has ever seen any document by The Church or the Vatican banning Homosexuals from The priesthood. Yet they have not seen, read a document that does not even exist but they quote from it.

 

[Dark Knight]

You are right in terms of official doctrine, of course. But the Church adds to the confusion by, for example, banning homosexuals, celibate or no, from the priesthood, even if only temporarily. And by opposing civil rights for homosexuals (again, whether or not they are engaged in sexual behavior) in many jurisdictions. And then, too, individual clergy often share societal prejudices, regardless of doctrine.

We shouldn't be surprised if some think the Church does a poor job sometimes of "loving the sinner."

Sorry, loving the sinner doesn't mean the Church should allow gays to marry each other, lol. Such "civil right" would lead to the sex act, most likely, since most married couple have sex. Or so I hear. :crazy:

 

[Casshew]

since most married couple have sex.

That's just a rumour!

 

[Nova]

I think this is something that is true of society as a whole, and not just the Catholic church. Official doctrine or policy cannot force people to change their biases or opinions, and there are people in every walk of life who are adept at concealing bigotry and hate from their employers. I think you will find this is true of politicians, LE, CEOs, teachers, coaches, doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs.

Of course. My point was just that there are reasons why outsiders may be confused as to the Catholic Church's attitude toward gay people.

 

[Nova]

No one has ever seen any document by The Church or the Vatican banning Homosexuals from The priesthood. Yet they have not seen, read a document that does not even exist but they quote from it.

Thanks, Tis. The policy was widely reported after the ascension of the new Pope. I wonder where reporters got that.

But we're splitting hairs here. The currently announced policy requiring gays to be celibate for three years before becoming priests is evidence enough. Is there an equivalent policy for heterosexuals (or are they just required to be celibate after their vows)? If not, then one might well conclude the Church believes homosexuals to be other than "regular" sinners and needful of special treatment.

 

[Nova]

Sorry, loving the sinner doesn't mean the Church should allow gays to marry each other, lol. Such "civil right" would lead to the sex act, most likely, since most married couple have sex. Or so I hear. :crazy:

In the first place, DK, that's nonsense. Since according to the Church, gay sex is sinful in or out of marriage, there's no reason to presume gay people are waiting for marriage to have sex. Therefore, gay marriage does not LEAD to sex, but in fact almost always follows it.

But in the second place, I wasn't even thinking of gay marriage. The Church has rather loudly opposed equal civil rights for gays in many jurisidictions. The Church prohibits gay Catholic groups like Dignity from meeting on church property. Which is the Church's right, of course, but it's sometimes hard to see what "love" is offered to us sinners.

And I could give you really horrendous examples of clerical discrimination against parishioners, but they are the result of individual priests and we'll agree human are fallible and the Church as a whole isn't responsible for every bias of its clergy.

Finally, I am not trying to set up the Church as some sort of special enemy to gay people. (Given a choice, give me the Catholic Church over most American fundamentalist denominations any day.) My point was just that the line between hating the sin and hating the sinner isn't always clear.