Catholic Church to open its doors to gay priests

[angelmom]

I am so sorry.

for what?

 

[TisHerself]

As a Catholic woman I don't see it this way at all. The women in our parish RUN the place, and the pastor knows it. He has said over and over that we truly have the power...virtually every organization in the parish is headed by a woman, the entire school is staffed by women, and most of his staff are women. Most important, he is a big believer in the old saying about "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world." We are passing the faith along to our children and the children of the parish. Where are the men? Selling Christmas trees and holding Monte Carlo nights for fundraisers! They don't have time for much more than their own faith, but the women are the ones determining the path our parish will follow. The women are the ones deciding the curriculum for PSR and the day school, choosing which groups should be presented to the Parish Council (largely women) for approval...it goes on and on.

Jesus did not choose any women apostles to go forth and lead the church and say the Mass, but He did have many women as disciples, some of whom were closer to Him than His most beloved friends. He appeared to the women first after the resurrection and stopped to comfort them on His path to the crucifixion. He passed the ability to consecrate the Eucharist on to the men, while entrusting the future of His church to His Blessed Mother, and to Martha and Mary, Mary Magdalene, and so many others. When the men ran and hid, the women stayed by the tomb in prayer. They never gave up hope, and they believed - although the men doubted.

Don't you see the trust He has placed in us? You say we are "behind" the men and the gays, but remember, "The last shall be first." His own mother, who gave birth in a stable and fled to Egypt for her life and watched her own Son murdered, was crowned the Queen of Heaven. We are His hands and feet on earth, and our reward is with Him there. What more can we ask than to be able to do His will?

You are so right that is another misconception about the Catholic Church that Non Catholics just seem to throw around without knowing what they are talking about about.

Also to the posts about Pope Benedict saying Gays ARE AN ABOMONATION TO GOD He NEVER EVER said that NOT ONCE.

These are his exact words on Homosexuality:


Pope Benedict XVI in his own words

Pope Benedict XVI, formerly known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, has become famous for his conservative stance on many issues. Here are some of his stated opinin

Quoted in Zenit.org,

ON HOMOSEXUALITY
Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered to an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder... It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs.

Nor has he at this point in time given any directions to THe Bishops in the US to refuse The Eucharist to anyone with Rainbow Banners.

Sorry Angelmom I did not mean to put all this on answer to your post but just got carried away. I just get so sick of the lies that are posted. If you don't agree with a religion that's fine I understand that, but lying about it I don't understand.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

*standing ovation* WOW INDEED!!!!!

My turn for them. :doh:

 

[Eagle1]

I dunno - to me it seems just like one more sin. Ask any priest - they all sin - the whole premise is that we are all sinners. Why is this one sin worse than the others? It isn't the huge deal in the bible that it is in the churches and the public today - it's mentioned, but so are a ton of other things we pretty much disregard or consider sins, but not the kind of things that would mean you couldn't be a priest, or, as some people believe, couldn't really be a catholic/christian. You can lie, you can have premarital sex, you can do a ton of other things that the bible says are very wrong - and people still accept you as a christian, and someone who can continue to aspire to be better, aspire to be a priest - temptations are not the problem, giving in to them is. But if you are gay, it is very, very different - and I don't see why. The bible doesn't consider this a huge, huge issue - not worse than lying, certainly.

Well, the other sins are different because we don't claim we're "born that way" and therefore can't resist them.

Which at least one of the TV clergymen, D. James Kennedy, (Presbyeterian who I'm afraid joined with Falwell and Charles Stanley in a holier-than-thou coalition that wasn't Biblically authorized) has made a case that sounds scientific to me, a non-scientist, stating, if I have minimal correct memory, (wasn't listening that closely about homosexuality) , that there may be an altered gene but that it was altered by the habit, somehow! Don't anyone take my word for that w/out investigating it with some other source. I may have it to some degree wrong. He'll probably speak on that again one of these days pretty soon. ("The Coral Ridge Hour")

Obviously I hate to be the one to say it, have waited this long for someone else to say it, but would we be doing anyone any favor by not using the whole truth about this sensitive subject? Other than celibacy, don't ask me what they're supposed to do. The Catholic church didn't need rules about it until lately, and doesn't that go to show that people aren't "born that way" or SOMETHING?

To be completely truthful and give everyone their fair chance at eternity, I guess we do have to mention, ancient San Francisco cities Sodom and Gomorrah were made examples of once the one straight family were allowed to escape. Lot's wife disobeyed an order not to look back, and turned into a pillar of salt. There was strictness in those days big time, and I really hate to be the one to say it, but we're promised there will be even more.

What exactly is said about the watchman who fails to sound the alarm? Did he get the death penalty? Guards after the Crucifixion said they would be killed for falling asleep, so they were advised to say Jesus' disciples stole His body, which really isn't a very good alibi for them.

Presbyterians have women elders. I don't know what- about the Biblical qualifications that they should be "the husband of one wife". Does it just mean "or the wife of one husband"?

Jesus went along with the laws and customs of the day pretty much. It was one of the Apostles who said there's "no male or female in Christ". I don't want to ask any church. Does anyone know exactly what the teaching is about that?

 

[Nova]

Nova I am going to answer several of your posts at the same time OK, First a question you don't have to answer if you don't want to I understand. Why did you convert to Catholicism knowing their stance on Homosexuality?
As for the Stats on % of Gay Priests read......Priests A Calling In Crisis......

I stand by my statement The Church's position Love the sinner Hate the sin IS very clear. If some individuals because of their own personal judgemental views think otherwise the blame does not belong with the Church.
My closest friend of 30 yrs is Gay has been in a committed relationship for 20 yrs. She knows I agree with the teaching of The Church on Homosexuality, we do not discuss it. I may not agree with her life style but I also do not judge her that is not for me to do. She is quite simply my friend and I love her.

The major problem I have with this thread is the implications that the only reason All Catholic Homosexual Youths enter The Priesthood is to supress their
Homosexual desires. I find myself totally offened for them, it attacks them as persons of Faith. It has an almost Born again fundamentalist attitude about it.
Heterosexuals are The Chosen ones THEY enter for the right reason, but Homosexuals don't. Nothing could be further from the truth and yes you are right there are Priests who do break their vows. Both Straight and Gay, and no there are not Large retreats specifically for that purpose.
There are retreat centers that cover problems that Priests are having that being one of them. There are a much larger % of Priests who do not break their vows than do. Of the ones that do I think we have to keep in mind that we are all human and no one is perfect .
I also would like to say I know and work with many wonderfull Priests and yes some Gay. They take their vows very seriously are kind caring and loving men
and none of them want the Celibacy rule changed.

PS.. Just to clarify so you don't think I am incredible naive. I am not saying that No Homosexual Youths has ever entered for the reasons you have said, just as I am sure Heterosexual Youths have entered for the wrong reasons.
Those are most probably among the ones who end up breaking their vows.

Tis, I never meant to misrepresent myself. I do attend mass now and then-in fact, it's the only church I've attended in decades-and I love the service. But I never converted.

Despite your legalistic restatement of Church doctrine on homosexuality, the history is well documented that the Vatican has periodically scapegoated homosexuals since the 12th century. Certainly, the situation hasn't been so dire lately, but vestiges remain.

My Catholic friends either openly disagree with Church doctrine on homosexuality or are like you, quite loving and apt to leave the judging to God. I'm not a convert, but neither am I anti-Catholics.

I hope I never said that all or even most gay priests took vows merely to subjugate their sexuality; I just challenged the (in my view, romantic) belief that all priests are motivated solely by the call of God. There are too many first-hand accounts, by current and ex-priests, gay and otherwise, to deny that humans are usually motivated at least partially by human concerns.

But whatever their motives upon entering the seminary, I don't assume such priests are "living a lie" throughout their careers. I am sure a true vocation - just like any faith - grows with time and sometimes waivers at times; none of which makes it less "true."

We can quarrel over the definition of "large" retreats, but they certainly sounded large when they were described to me. And I am told some specialize in priests with certain types of problems. But that's hardly a bad thing, is it?

 

[Nova]

I just get so sick of the lies that are posted. If you don't agree with a religion that's fine I understand that, but lying about it I don't understand.

Tis, I think it's great that you set the record straight for us. Most of us depend on published accounts for what we know of happenings in Italy. If we are misinformed, it doesn't mean we are lying.

But while we're on the subject...
abomination
objective disorder
potato
po-tah-to

Gee, I wonder why so many people in and out of the church believe the Church itself a tad confused about hating sin v. hating the sinner...

 

[Eagle1]

IMHO, they don't really hate the sinner, these days, that's been talked about so much!

It's women who've often been treated unjustly.

 

[TisHerself]

Gee, I wonder why so many people in and out of the church believe the Church itself a tad confused about hating sin v. hating the sinner...

The Church is not confused, the only confusion that exists is in the denial that one continues to remain in.

 

[TisHerself]

IMHO, they don't really hate the sinner, these days, that's been talked about so much!

It's women who've often been treated unjustly.

I am a woman and I am Catholic and I think we are treated just fine thank you very much.

 

[ScorpioGal]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is why I am an EX Catholic. I would never belong to a manmade religion that considered a woman to be less than a man. And for those that say catholics don't, HA! When a religion won't allow women to lead (priests, cardinals, bishops or even Pope), than they DO consider them to be less than man.

I'll have to go with Jesse Ventura on this one, "religion is for weakminded individuals". Amen, Jesse!!! It may not have been politically correct to say, but truer words were never spoken.

 

[Maral]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is why I am an EX Catholic. I would never belong to a manmade religion that considered a woman to be less than a man. And for those that say catholics don't, HA! When a religion won't allow women to lead (priests, cardinals, bishops or even Pope), than they DO consider them to be less than man.

ScorpioGal, the Catholic Church does not consider a woman to be less than a man. Role differentiation is not inequality.

 

[angelmom]

I'll have to go with Jesse Ventura on this one, "religion is for weakminded individuals". Amen, Jesse!!! It may not have been politically correct to say, but truer words were never spoken.

:sick: Jesse Ventura as philosopher...nope, can't get there.

 

[Details]

ScorpioGal, the Catholic Church does not consider a woman to be less than a man. Role differentiation is not inequality.

There's words, then there are actions. Whatever they say, from what they do, I think they do definitely consider a woman to be less than a man. And that's a solid Catholic upbringing talking here.

Not that they're the only ones - most branches of Christianity; most religions period have the same belief - not all of them, but most.

 

[Dark Knight]

I'll have to go with Jesse Ventura on this one, "religion is for weakminded individuals". Amen, Jesse!!! It may not have been politically correct to say, but truer words were never spoken.

Yeah, because being religious has been SO easy throughout history! :slap: It's easier being an athiest. Staying true to the faith isn't for wimps. :crazy:

 

[Dark Knight]

There's words, then there are actions. Whatever they say, from what they do, I think they do definitely consider a woman to be less than a man. And that's a solid Catholic upbringing talking here.

Not that they're the only ones - most branches of Christianity; most religions period have the same belief - not all of them, but most.

Obviously not TOO solid. :crazy: They're simply following Christ's example, in His omnipotence, regarding church leaders.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

It's easier being an athiest.

Not once you leave this earth.

 

[TisHerself]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is why I am an EX Catholic. I would never belong to a manmade religion that considered a woman to be less than a man. And for those that say catholics don't, HA! When a religion won't allow women to lead (priests, cardinals, bishops or even Pope), than they DO consider them to be less than man.

I'll have to go with Jesse Ventura on this one, "religion is for weakminded individuals". Amen, Jesse!!! It may not have been politically correct to say, but truer words were never spoken.

Considering The real true Teaching, Doctrine, Dogma of The Catholic Church is to Know and Love God The Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. To do his will on this earth so we can be happy with him in the next. Then it is most probably best that you consider yourself an Ex Catholic (Whatever that is).
Since God is Our main focus here or should be, not on the lesser value placed on women than men. (Which is false anyway).
Jessie Ventura a as Spokesperson for individuals of religion you will forgive me if I somehow see that as a skit on Comedy Central.

 

[Dark Knight]

Not once you leave this earth.

Excellent point!!!! I meant on earth, of course, hehe. But a great point! Actually, life would seem awfully pathetic as an athiest. I cannot imagine not feeling the Presence of God and Jesus daily. It would be pretty empty. But that doesn't make it an easier path to take. Ask Christ how weak-minded He was facing His crucifixion.

 

[Details]

Obviously not TOO solid. :crazy: They're simply following Christ's example, in His omnipotence, regarding church leaders.

Pretty solid - but that doesn't mean it took! I dunno, just somehow it was never real to me, just something I had to do cause mom said so. But I'm not Catholic for the simplest of reasons - I just don't have any belief in God.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Excellent point!!!! I meant on earth, of course, hehe. But a great point! Actually, life would seem awfully pathetic as an athiest. I cannot imagine not feeling the Presence of God and Jesus daily. It would be pretty empty. But that doesn't make it an easier path to take. Ask Christ how weak-minded He was facing His crucifixion.

Very true. I'd be a pretty miserable person too without my faith. Our lifetimes are soooooo short compared to that eternity in hell.