Catholic Church to open its doors to gay priests

[Jeana (DP)]

I just don't have any belief in God.

Serious? Don't wannt get too personal, so don't answer any questions that you don't want to, but did you ever believe in God? Anything happen to change your mind? Folks believe in God?
(Sorry, I'm nosy). :blushing:

 

[Dark Knight]

Very true. I'd be a pretty miserable person too without my faith. Our lifetimes are soooooo short compared to that eternity in hell.

Amen to that!!!! :blowkiss:

 

[Details]

Yeah, because being religious has been SO easy throughout history! :slap: It's easier being an athiest. Staying true to the faith isn't for wimps. :crazy:

Being of a minority religion is difficult. Being of a majority religion is oh so incredibly easy; and especially much easier than being an atheist, which for some reason both majority and minority religions consider a very threatening stance, and a common enemy.

Sorry, but I can't even tell most people what I am, because I've already gone through finding out what people think of atheists. Even having known you for years, known what type of person you are (I'm quite ethical, honest, and follow more of the rules than many religious people) - a friend or coworker finds out you are atheist, and the most insulting beliefs are revealled; that atheists have no ethics nor morals; that your life is empty; that you see the world as a base animalistic place; that you can't possibly have any real goals in your life; etc. And that's here where we've supposedly got the freedom to believe as we wish. In other times, other places, being an atheist lead to real penalties ranging from mere job discrimination to torture and death.

Religious intolerance is lousy for anyone not of the majority religion - it doesn't matter whether you are of a minority religion, or an agnostic or atheist. But a difference - there's nowhere where you can be in the majority as an atheist.

 

[TisHerself]

There's words, then there are actions. Whatever they say, from what they do, I think they do definitely consider a woman to be less than a man. And that's a solid Catholic upbringing talking here.

Not that they're the only ones - most branches of Christianity; most religions period have the same belief - not all of them, but most.

I have to totally disagree with this, and this is coming from a solid Catholic upbringing. AND I was raised pre Vatican11, I have never felt like I was a second class citizen. I have always felt just as much an important part of the Church as any males in my life. Women happen to run most of The Dioceses here in US try running them without The Women and see what happens.

 

[Details]

Serious? Don't wannt get too personal, so don't answer any questions that you don't want to, but did you ever believe in God? Anything happen to change your mind? Folks believe in God?
(Sorry, I'm nosy). :blushing:

Mom believes in god, pretty strong Catholic; both sides grandparents quite strong Catholics. Dad agnostic, but I never knew until I was late teens.

I never did believe. It was just another myth like Santa Claus to me - doesn't exist, but people say so a lot. I can't recall any time ever when I believed. It simply didn't take.

Oh, and another look into the atheist viewpoint - to me, the world is a miraculous, incredible place - not because of any god, but just how everything has grown, from evolution to history, the unbelievable things we humans have accomplished, etc. It's really just an incredible place to stand, and see all that we have accomplished, how wonderfully so many things fit together - and not for any master plan, just for self interest and our unique ability to learn from past generations mistakes. It's really an incredible universe with or without a belief in some master planner. To me, it's more incredible and beautiful without someone sitting there putting all the pieces together. Kinda the difference between seeing a pool table go from it's initial state to a state with the balls all in the pockets by the cue ball hitting just right, and the laws of physics taking over, versus the big guy in the sky just picking up each ball and putting it in a pocket. To me, the first view is more incredible. To others, the second view is more comforting and incredible. Not that that matters - it's about what you believe is true.

 

[Eagle1]

Let me just take half a second while we're waiting for that answer to explain to TisHerself that, oops, I didn't mean the Catholic church but the world in general, about sexist injustices. Example, they were about to stone a woman to death for a sex sin, but not her male partner, when Jesus came along and was asked what He thought about the situation, as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, and He answered, "Let the one that is without sin cast the first stone."

It's just a fact of life that men tend to think women are the sinners, no offense, DK. I'm sure you don't think that, or better not say so, ha ha.

To be fair, some of us women already have had enough to do, especially when our children were young! Asking us to just teach a class was enough of an imposition. I didn't want to be a leader. As I think you're all aware, I'm an organ sub, and that's a lot more work than you could imagine, going through half a ton of music to select about three or four new and different pieces appropriate to whatever's going on that week. Practicing alone in the dark. I've been having eye surgery the last six weeks, which could go on several more months and hopefully will be successful. Women just have a lot more distractions? We are, after all, the hand that rocks the cradle. I don't even have any ambition to be an elder where there are women elders. I bet lots of you feel the same way, that we've earned that hour of rest.

 

[Dark Knight]

Being of a minority religion is difficult. Being of a majority religion is oh so incredibly easy; and especially much easier than being an atheist, which for some reason both majority and minority religions consider a very threatening stance, and a common enemy.

Sorry, but I can't even tell most people what I am, because I've already gone through finding out what people think of atheists. Even having known you for years, known what type of person you are (I'm quite ethical, honest, and follow more of the rules than many religious people) - a friend or coworker finds out you are atheist, and the most insulting beliefs are revealled; that atheists have no ethics nor morals; that your life is empty; that you see the world as a base animalistic place; that you can't possibly have any real goals in your life; etc. And that's here where we've supposedly got the freedom to believe as we wish. In other times, other places, being an atheist lead to real penalties ranging from mere job discrimination to torture and death.

Religious intolerance is lousy for anyone not of the majority religion - it doesn't matter whether you are of a minority religion, or an agnostic or atheist. But a difference - there's nowhere where you can be in the majority as an atheist.

Certainly Christians are now the majority, but far too many of us have been persecuted even unto death over the years to say that it's easy, and still are in many, many parts of the world. And we still get ridiculed by the "minorities" as well. So no, it is FAR from incredibly easy. Those who say so are just angry because they are in the minority, which is persecution in itself, albeit minor compared to what many believers have suffered. Ask the priests and bishops jailed in China how easy it is.

 

[Dark Knight]

Let me just take half a second while we're waiting for that answer to explain to TisHerself that, oops, I didn't mean the Catholic church but the world in general, about sexist injustices. Example, they were about to stone a woman to death for a sex sin, but not her male partner, when Jesus came along and was asked what He thought about the situation, as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, and He answered, "Let the one that is without sin cast the first stone."

It's just a fact of life that men tend to think women are the sinners, no offense, DK. I'm sure you don't think that, or better not say so, ha ha.

LOL! No, I don't think that. Nor would most men today regarding that same situation. That was societal back in those days. Notice it was CHRIST who corrected them thinking they weren't sinners. But the men in that society obviously felt otherwise. Not so today, in my opinion.

 

[Eagle1]

Any time being an atheist becomes too lonely, feel free to be welcomed back with open arms. It must be something like being outside a family.

 

[Details]

Certainly Christians are now the majority, but far too many of us have been persecuted even unto death over the years to say that it's easy, and still are in many, many parts of the world. And we still get ridiculed by the "minorities" as well. So no, it is FAR from incredibly easy. Those who say so are just angry because they are in the minority, which is persecution in itself, albeit minor compared to what many believers have suffered. Ask the priests and bishops jailed in China how easy it is.

Everyone has suffered. During the Inquisition, it was the atheists as well as the jews who suffered. During so many other times, the atheists are always on the list of the 'other', along with the minority believers who are to be converted or killed. Believers have had this problem - but far too many atheists have been persecuted, even to the death, for me to really be able to stay quiet when this is minimized.

Any time any group decides to get rid of, torment, or otherwise harm their opposition, all those in that opposition are greatly harmed. It's not limited in any way to believers versus non believers.

 

[Dark Knight]

Not that that matters - it's about what you believe is true.

No, we can't all be right, lol, sorry. And to think it all happened randomly takes more faith than to think there was intelligent design, in my view. Many scientists have come to similar conclusions, that's it's too much of a stretch to think DNA and all of that could come about by itself, given it's complexity.

 

[Details]

Any time being an atheist becomes too lonely, feel free to be welcomed back with open arms. It must be something like being outside a family.

Something like perhaps being outside of your family because they can't accept that you are gay (or, let's say, straight, for a twist), and you can rejoin your family by living a lie. I can't live a lie. I don't believe - searching my heart, reading the bible - I don't believe. It'd be a lie.

Besides - I'm not lonely. It's an amazing world here, and religion isn't the only thing in my life - lots of good friends, lots of good family. I just get ticked off when people act like religion is the only thing, the only people who have ever been persecuted, that they're the poor victims, when they also victimize many others (religion in general - lots of nice people, but some also not so nice, or are so sure they are right that causing any amount of pain is OK to bring someone to the right path).

 

[Details]

No, we can't all be right, lol, sorry. And to think it all happened randomly takes more faith than to think there was intelligent design, in my view. Many scientists have come to similar conclusions, that's it's too much of a stretch to think DNA and all of that could come about by itself, given it's complexity.

It's hardly random - if it was random, we wouldn't find it happening again, automatically in the laboratories. It's no more random than mixing hydrogen and oxygen and getting water.

But I'm not saying we're all right; I'm saying that I don't think (or perhaps don't prefer to think) that a person is religious because they find the theories more comforting, safe; no more than a person is atheistic because they find the physics more interesting that way. It's about what you believe - either you believe in god, or you don't.

 

[angelmom]

Being of a minority religion is difficult. Being of a majority religion is oh so incredibly easy; and especially much easier than being an atheist, which for some reason both majority and minority religions consider a very threatening stance, and a common enemy.

Sorry, but I can't even tell most people what I am, because I've already gone through finding out what people think of atheists. Even having known you for years, known what type of person you are (I'm quite ethical, honest, and follow more of the rules than many religious people) - a friend or coworker finds out you are atheist, and the most insulting beliefs are revealled; that atheists have no ethics nor morals; that your life is empty; that you see the world as a base animalistic place; that you can't possibly have any real goals in your life; etc. And that's here where we've supposedly got the freedom to believe as we wish. In other times, other places, being an atheist lead to real penalties ranging from mere job discrimination to torture and death.

Religious intolerance is lousy for anyone not of the majority religion - it doesn't matter whether you are of a minority religion, or an agnostic or atheist. But a difference - there's nowhere where you can be in the majority as an atheist.

This is a valid point. Being Catholic in the south has certainly been an education for me, although I value the experience because it has made me want to learn more about my own faith. The Protestants around me seem to know so much and quote the Bible so easily that I was determined to be able to answer their questions instead of just standing there dumbfounded.

But isn't it ironic that even some atheists are intolerant of others' religion? (See Jesse Ventura quote above.) It reminds me of certain liberals (my brother and SIL) who are always defending the right to multiple perspectives - except the conservative one! :doh:

 

[Details]

This is a valid point. Being Catholic in the south has certainly been an education for me, although I value the experience because it has made me want to learn more about my own faith. The Protestants around me seem to know so much and quote the Bible so easily that I was determined to be able to answer their questions instead of just standing there dumbfounded.

But isn't it ironic that even some atheists are intolerant of others' religion? (See Jesse Ventura quote above.) It reminds me of certain liberals (my brother and SIL) who are always defending the right to multiple perspectives - except the conservative one! :doh:

Yep, even atheists can be the intolerant ones - anyone can, and usually seems to become the intolerant ones when they get enough power. Although, at the least, a forced conversion to atheism doesn't involve wasting an hour Sunday mornings doing Catholic calinesthetics and donating money.

In all seriousness - this all is exactly what our founding fathers experienced that made them so determined to keep religion out of government - as bad as it can be, being in the minority here, it's far worse places where the religion becomes part of the government. Imagine being where you are, and Catholic, if the people around you had the power to make laws based on your religion...


Discrimination is never that far away - Kennedy wasn't that long ago - remember all the debate about letting a Catholic be president? Majority religions can become minority, new religions sprout up - a secular government is the best way to keep us all safe, keep the discrimination to a mostly harmless level.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Mom believes in god, pretty strong Catholic; both sides grandparents quite strong Catholics. Dad agnostic, but I never knew until I was late teens.

I never did believe. It was just another myth like Santa Claus to me - doesn't exist, but people say so a lot. I can't recall any time ever when I believed. It simply didn't take.

Oh, and another look into the atheist viewpoint - to me, the world is a miraculous, incredible place - not because of any god, but just how everything has grown, from evolution to history, the unbelievable things we humans have accomplished, etc. It's really just an incredible place to stand, and see all that we have accomplished, how wonderfully so many things fit together - and not for any master plan, just for self interest and our unique ability to learn from past generations mistakes. It's really an incredible universe with or without a belief in some master planner. To me, it's more incredible and beautiful without someone sitting there putting all the pieces together. Kinda the difference between seeing a pool table go from it's initial state to a state with the balls all in the pockets by the cue ball hitting just right, and the laws of physics taking over, versus the big guy in the sky just picking up each ball and putting it in a pocket. To me, the first view is more incredible. To others, the second view is more comforting and incredible. Not that that matters - it's about what you believe is true.

Yeah, but see that's just it. The balls have been put on the table, but they move on their own. Free will, right?

 

[Details]

Yeah, but see that's just it. The balls have been put on the table, but they move on their own. Free will, right?

The motion is either the laws of physics, or God - chose the one you believe. My point is just that both points of view make the universe a wonderful place.

 

[Details]

And there are all the points of belief inbetween the two - like that god created the laws of physics (he was the cue stick, knew what would happen if he used a particular angle and degree of force, and there it is). That one seems to be a lot like the Deists beliefs - they believe god created the universe - but that he already did all the creating, and he doesn't do anything further - we've got this world and our own actions to make it heaven or hell.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The motion is either the laws of physics, or God - chose the one you believe. My point is just that both points of view make the universe a wonderful place.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Details]

Any time being an atheist becomes too lonely, feel free to be welcomed back with open arms. It must be something like being outside a family.

Would you change your religion because you were lonely? Change to the majority view and ignore what you believed to be true because it was inconvenient?

I believe just as much as you do in my view of the universe, it's not something I could see changing just because other people disagree - would you change religions if you lived in Utah and everyone around you was Mormon, and you were lonely?