Caylee Anthony 3 year old General discussion #99

[RoseRed]

The People of the State of Michigan lost. It is not a contest between a prosecutor and the defense counsel. They don't control the generation of the facts or the law, they just use their skills to present them.

I was just answering you post where you said if the Prosecution WON on other evidence. I just stated they did not win in answer to what YOU said.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Great! Thanks, Absolut and Suzi! Now I am just tired and no longer confused, at least.

 

[gibby207]

Dog plus hopefully DNA equals murder charge, right?

 

[McSev]

No it is not one of those cases as there were no bones found.

I just get tired of the dogs are always right when they are not proof if other evidence is not found. Just because they hit on an area it does not prove that a body has been there. We keep seeing but how do you explain the dogs hitting? Well I am trying to explain that the dogs are not proof alone but there must be other evidence also. I a, amazed so many people think that just because a dog hits it is absolute proof but it is not.

I get amazed because I've seen those kinds of dogs work in terrible disasters and they're wonderful.

What you're trying to explain is that in these types of instances as far as the law is concerned, there has to be other evidence to corroborate. That's true, but the definition of what that evidence may be is very loosely defined, and the dogs hitting can be used as a basis for a case as it was in the bond hearing for Casey.

Also, I am suspect of the story that the family has told about the day the dogs came and the inconsistencies they profess to have noted. It's procedural in many juristictions that they called the 2nd handler and dog in to verify for the 1st, and this is a common practice in law enforcement and the execution of each dog is performed sequentually. I don't know if you folks know or not, but the way that the handlers and dogs are notified of their participation is very selective as well, so as not to influence the handler or the dog prior to the search.

 

[JBean]

I think in bold is probably the closest. It would help to know exactly when the responding officer found the note. There is no date or time. So neither one of us can say when LE knew the car was important. We are back to square one.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the pants.

Oh you pill! If LE wasn't looking at the car as evidence why would Cindy think the pants were of consequence? Remember Suzi she cleaned them prior to knowing anything .

 

[SuziQ]

About the car and the "stink". Didn't George admit that he knew what it was and that it was so bad he had to drive home with the windows down and his head out the window?

Yes. We were just debating on when the car became important to the case vs. how long it took LE to take it as evidence. In the process we noticed there was no mention of the smell in the affidavit, even though the first responding officer found a note in the car. When and what date the officer found the note is not stated. Grrrrrrr. Doesn't LE know we need these details?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Okay, I just read my post and I really can't decide where I'm going....LOL

I get where you were going, I think! However, if LE thought those things were pertinent to this case...they would have cordoned off the area immediately and brought in search teams.

 

[Leila]

Dispatch doesn't relay the dead body statement to the first responders, the Anthony's neglect to mention to LE the dead smell. Time to get a search warrant signed by a judge. Yep, I can see why the car wouldn't have been picked up till the 17th.

I agree! Actually, it was late on the 15th, and LE was at the Anthony home until 5:30am on July 16th according to Cindy and George in their interview with Greta. By the afternoon of July 17th, that car was parked in a stall in the police department's facility, and CSI was already conducting tests on it. The local news media shot a brief video through a chain link fence of the car being checked out before the garage door was closed. So a warrant must have been handed down pretty quickly.

 

[SuziQ]

It was and directly across the street from where Casey took the detective and said it was ZG's mom's apt.

Actually Casey said it was where ZG lived in years past. And LE knew that was a lie because a 26year old woman could not have lived there if it was Senior housing.

 

[ketel0ne]

Dog plus hopefully DNA equals murder charge, right?

IMO that would still be tough.

 

[gibby207]

McSev: Are you saying that the dog and handler don't even know each other prior to the search? (Please remember that I'm a newbie...go easy....

 

[Themis]

I was just answering you post where you said if the Prosecution WON on other evidence. I just stated they did not win in answer to what YOU said.

I don't think I wrote that post using the term "the Prosecution won."

 

[JBean]

About the car and the "stink". Didn't George admit that he knew what it was and that it was so bad he had to drive home with the windows down and his head out the window?

We can agree that there was a smell. But why didn't LE act on it?
They had a missing baby girl,a theoretically stolen car that smelled like a dead body and mother that waited 31 days to report her daughter missing.
Call me crazy but i would have asked to take the car.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Yes. We were just debating on when the car became important to the case vs. how long it took LE to take it as evidence. In the process we noticed there was no mention of the smell in the affidavit, even though the first responding officer found a note in the car. When and what date the officer found the note is not stated. Grrrrrrr. Doesn't LE know we need these details?

That the officer that found the note didn't smell what would have been a noticable odor and subsequently note it seems odd. that's all I was getting at. I'm dazed and confused like the rest of us.

 

[not_my_kids]

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/pg/...8-8884-4677-89869B6AD8A75ADA/104/143/127/FAQ/

I know long link. Explains how LE can search an impounded car.

 

[RoseRed]

Dog "hits" can also be used as a tool by LE to evoke confessions. LE is not limited to what they can do (lie, fake evidence, etc.) to obtain a confession.

Yes and that is the reason I do not trust most LE. There are way too many innocent people that have been convicted of crimes that they did not commit.

 

[passin_through]

I don't see the dogs as proof, I see the dogs as reason to be suspicious. They do make me sit up and take notice.

In the VanDam case the dogs hitting or not hitting were questioned. They hit on the RV, a few places in Westerfields home. We know Danielle VanDam wasn't found in the home or the RV but later found in a little roadside pull-off illegal dump area sort of deal.

The dogs don't prove anything to me, but they don't ease my mind either. I can't dismiss them as silly science.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/danielle/20020703-9999_2m3wrap.html
*snip*

In his questioning yesterday, defense lawyer Robert Boyce suggested Frazee might be exaggerating his dog's behavior. Boyce noted that Frazee said in his e-mail that he "wasn't sure but I thought" that the dog had given his cadaver alert. Frazee also wrote in the e-mail, "I thought he might have been doing these behaviors just to please me."
Boyce asked whether police had nicknamed Frazee "180 Frank," meaning that if Frazee and his dog went searching in one direction, "everyone was to search in the other direction." Frazee said he wasn't aware of that nickname.
After his testimony, the prosecution called Frazee's supervisor, Rosemary Redditt, a retired teacher and also a volunteer canine searcher. She said she was at the impound lot with Frazee and his dog Feb. 6. She said she witnessed the dog react to the storage compartment of the vehicle.
She said the dog "turned around real fast," sat, looked at Frazee and barked.
Westerfield's lawyers launched their defense by summoning a San Diego police detective in an effort to raise more questions about the credibility of the cadaver-sniffing dog.
Detective James Tomsovic, who testified earlier as a prosecution witness, said yesterday that he was at the police impound lot Feb. 6 and didn't see the dog react to the motor home. In a report, Tomsovic said the dog showed no reaction. Under cross-examination by prosecutor Jeff Dusek, Tomsovic acknowledged he arrived at the lot after Frazee and might have missed the dog's reaction

 

[gibby207]

Isn't the question of body as evidence in question as of the location, i.e., gators? It may never be found! Also, this may be dumb as I am in WA and don't know much about gators, but I think they have primitive brains and wouldn't "dig up" a grave, right?

 

[JBean]

I agree! Actually, it was late on the 15th, and LE was at the Anthony home until 5:30am on July 16th according to Cindy and George in their interview with Greta. By the afternoon of July 17th, that car was parked in a stall in the police department's facility, and CSI was already conducting tests on it. The local news media shot a brief video through a chain link fence of the car being checked out before the garage door was closed. So a warrant must have been handed down pretty quickly.

As long as they had it taped off so no one could access it, I can accept that as moving quickly enough.
Do you know why they did not mention anything about the car in the arrest report?

 

[ketel0ne]

We can agree that there was a smell. But why didn't LE act on it?
They had a missing baby girl,a theoretically stolen car that smelled like a dead body and mother that waited 31 days to report her daughter missing.
Call me crazy but i would have asked to take the car.

Yeah, crazy ain't it, and now enough content for an entire season of Law & Order SVU.