Caylee's "Big Trouble..." Shirt Incl. Photos *Merged*

[seagull65]

Not sure why LE would be looking there when KC specifically said ZFG had Caylee. KC should know who had her child.......or, not. jmo

ETA: Also LE can't just walk in and search an apartment/home/dwelling without a search warrant unless given permission by the owner. Without a reason to search a warrant would not be granted by the judge. Innocent people have rights, too, not just the guilty. lol

you're not sure why LE would look into the places where Casey had been and where she'd had Caylee recently? Even after pictures surface of the T-shirt from the remains scene having been at one of these places? OK, we're of a different mind there.

Yes of course with a search warrant LOL Wouldn't it ordinarily be easy to get a search warrant for the places the child had been staying and spending time recently and where the mother (their chief suspect) had been staying?
Not just the apartments themselves, also the apartment complex dumpsters etc etc. Seems to me they would have examined all of these asap to prevent potential loss of evidence.They seemed doubtful about her ZFG story from the beginning and thought it was just a red herring so you'd think they'd investigate the places their prime suspect had been staying and where she'd had the missing child etc. IMO

 

[seagull65]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68989&highlight=caseys+photobucket+pics

here are the ones with the flannel Winnie blanket Lambchop, in post #4 at that above link, the first 3 pictures are on the blue couch at JP's, you can see the flannel Winnie blanket in the first and third one ( lower left corner).

I wonder, looking at these pictures again now, in the picture on the bed where Caylee is in the small packages Tshirt, what is that directly behind Caylee on the floor, is that the blanket again, I can't tell. I never noticed it before. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6593

 

[joypath]

Fascinating questions seagull65 so I called home to my "in house reference text", DH, retired State trooper & "homicide specialist" :woohooyeah, how lucky are we both, getting to "see/be with" HCL in action but in his HALCYON DAYS of fame!):woohoo:
1. The case was a missing person case, victim abduction by KNOWN assailant, information provided by parent/guardian of record.
2. The informant provided ALL relevant information to investigators which is what they were using to SEARCH for the victim & perp.
3. The process of interrogation starts with the informant, then as if you imagine a stone thrown into a lake, ripples out to family and friends/acquaintances BUT QUESTIONING by skilled LE helps FOCUS the investigation.

NOW huge props to Lambchop from the DH (he wants you to consider LE as a career, you'd write great "5s" {reports}) for the following: Don't forget the T-shirt had no significance until the remains were found 6 months later. By that time SA was pretty sure of the evidence they had and the lack of any evidence that ZFG ever existed. The fact that KC lied about facts of the case and continued to lie up until the time of her arrest shows intent on KC's part not to let LE know exactly what happened to Caylee. It was "not in KC's best interest to tell LE the whereabout of her child" (paraphrased). This came from the mouth of her attorney, JB. When someone lies to LE about an important issue such as a missing child why would LE ever, ever think someone else had something to do with the child being missing. The child was KC's responsibility, in KC's care and KC can't come up with a reason why she no longer has this child. With all the information disclosed to date LE was right on with their suspect. The fact that there is no evidence, none whatsoever, that points to another person is significant. EDITED BY ME from post @11:36:blushing:

seagull65: The LE had created a timeline of the last DOCUMENTED observance of Caylee which was not within the habitation time at RM's apt. IF it had been determined that the phantom nanny existed, THEN all bets would have been off regarding the LE and their intensive searching most if not all of the high spots in the inmate's travels. The LIES/FABRICATIONS/MISTRUTHS/COVER-UPS are EXACTLY what got the inmate where she deserves to be: awaiting trial for the murder of her child.:furious:

PS: last paragraph=IMO!:angel:

 

[seagull65]

you know, talking about how Caylee looks different sizes in different pictures, I really forget how small Caylee actually was sometimes looking at pictures where she's alone or where she's next to Casey (who is very small herself). When you see a picture like that one where she's on RM's lap playing the drum, I see how small she actually was, she looks tiny and babylike.

 

[ZsaZsa]

you know, talking about how Caylee looks different sizes in different pictures, I really forget how small Caylee actually was sometimes looking at pictures where she's alone or where she's next to Casey (who is very small herself). When you see a picture like that one where she's on RM's lap playing the drum, I see how small she actually was, she looks tiny and babylike.

Yes it pays to reflect on that. We can get quite academic on here, dissecting the evidence and the minutiae of the story, but this was a helpless little toddler, asphyxiated with duct tape by her mother, in what must have been a rage, and not reported 'missing' ( ie dead)by her mother until she was forced to. Justice for CAYLEE is the aim of all our examinings.

 

[LambChop]

Fascinating questions seagull65 so I called home to my "in house reference text", DH, retired State trooper & "homicide specialist" :woohooyeah, how lucky are we both, getting to "see/be with" HCL in action but in his HALCYON DAYS of fame!):woohoo:
1. The case was a missing person case, victim abduction by KNOWN assailant, information provided by parent/guardian of record.
2. The informant provided ALL relevant information to investigators which is what they were using to SEARCH for the victim & perp.
3. The process of interrogation starts with the informant, then as if you imagine a stone thrown into a lake, ripples out to family and friends/acquaintances BUT QUESTIONING by skilled LE helps FOCUS the investigation.

NOW huge props to Lambchop from the DH (he wants you to consider LE as a career, you'd write great "5s" {reports}) for the following: Don't forget the T-shirt had no significance until the remains were found 6 months later. By that time SA was pretty sure of the evidence they had and the lack of any evidence that ZFG ever existed. The fact that KC lied about facts of the case and continued to lie up until the time of her arrest shows intent on KC's part not to let LE know exactly what happened to Caylee. It was "not in KC's best interest to tell LE the whereabout of her child" (paraphrased). This came from the mouth of her attorney, JB. When someone lies to LE about an important issue such as a missing child why would LE ever, ever think someone else had something to do with the child being missing. The child was KC's responsibility, in KC's care and KC can't come up with a reason why she no longer has this child. With all the information disclosed to date LE was right on with their suspect. The fact that there is no evidence, none whatsoever, that points to another person is significant. EDITED BY ME from post @11:36:blushing:

seagull65: The LE had created a timeline of the last DOCUMENTED observance of Caylee which was not within the habitation time at RM's apt. IF it had been determined that the phantom nanny existed, THEN all bets would have been off regarding the LE and their intensive searching most if not all of the high spots in the inmate's travels. The LIES/FABRICATIONS/MISTRUTHS/COVER-UPS are EXACTLY what got the inmate where she deserves to be: awaiting trial for the murder of her child.:furious:

PS: last paragraph=IMO!:angel:

Why thank you for the compliment Joypath. But credit goes to a very, very good homicide detective, my husband, who would never bring a case home but often discussed bits and parts of situations with me, what would I do, what would I think, etc. He was injured during a bank robbery (they sent him in while the robbery was in progress because he was in plain clothes) and he had to retire and spent the next 20 years as a private detective in Connecticut. He was often praised for his manner and professional attention to details and was truly loved by all his friends and coworkers. A great man and a greater teacher. I do miss him. Thanks.

 

[chefmom]

I have no way of knowing if George's recollection is accurate or not, and I don't know when exactly Caylee went missing or died. I don't take witness statements as gospel fact LOL, I think everyone except the perp would be trying their best to recall accurately, but witnesses can sometimes (often) be mistaken in their recollections. JG originally said he'd heard Caylee in the background of a phone call later than that, so did KioTC. What was accurate, what wasn't? Who knows.

No I don't rule out a sexual assault at all.

Wouldn't want to discuss further because it would take us off topic from the T-shirt/T-shirt photos etc although it's an interesting question

BBM

A reasonable assumption in a missing toddler case. The only person who was purposely misleading here was KC. Not a single other person went out of their way to lie to LE. There may have been some inaccurate recollections which I believe most tried to correct, but the only person who was intentionally misleading and misdirecting LE was KC herself. CA, GA, and LA all jumped on board after the fact to try to get KC out of the mess she had created. Therefore, KC = perp.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think the only one KC would EVER try to cover up for in Caylee's death would be herself. She has no reason to "protect" her friends. They all have jumped ship on her long ago. Not one of them visits. It is pretty clear after 2 1/2 years who was the last person to see Caylee alive. jmo

Bingo. Not only would she not protect her friends or family (who she despised), but she went to the next level, and sat by while they were being actively, wrongly pursued for blame by her defense team. I suspect at trial, CA and GA and LA will experience what Kronk went through, to the tenth power.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

you're not sure why LE would look into the places where Casey had been and where she'd had Caylee leading up to the disappearance? Even after pictures surface of the T-shirt from the remains scene having been at one of these places? OK, we're of a different mind there.

Yes of course with a search warrant LOL That goes without saying. Seems like it would be quite straightforward to get a search warrant for the places where the mother (their chief suspect) had been staying, and where Caylee had been so shortly before the disappearance.
Not just the apartments themselves, also the apartment complex dumpsters etc etc. Seems to me they would have examined all of these asap to prevent potential loss of evidence.They seemed doubtful about her ZFG story from the beginning and thought it was just a red herring so you'd think they'd investigate the places their prime suspect had been staying and where she'd had the missing child etc. IMO

Why would they?? Casey was the last one with Caylee and just because she has been somewhere doesn't necessarily mean anything. They can take facts into account (the lying, the honesty of her friends, the other nonsense) and deduce that Casey is the only suspect. Besides, the most efficient and logical thing to do at that time was to search for Zanny, who Casey swore up and down took Caylee,but once they found out Zanny doesn't exist, why would that make them suspect her friends? What nonsense.

 

[tsitra01]

The photo of Caylee in the BT shirt at RM's would be easy to date . It was not taken when Caylee went missing. Caylee was seen long after that photo was taken .
CA has lied and changed her stories,even under oath and on video.Why should we believe her when she says she never saw the BT shirt? She has done her best to try and implicate others and this was probably a lie to do just that.CA has NO credibility.

ITA I would not rely on anything CA has said. She has proven to be a
Liar over and over.

 

[Leila]

I was surprised to read, while trying to catch up recently, the thing about JPC having also sold pictures or attempted to, not just RM. Did we hear yet which pictures they were that JP took? Makes sense he might have taken photos with his phone or camera too at some point.

I was always puzzled how he'd kept such a low profile all this time, since that was his townhome and everything. You'd think he would have been investigated in exactly the same manner as RM. Why selectively RM? I never understood what difference it made which one she was dating, they both lived there...there were other people who frequented the place too..

Regarding the Tshirt photos at their place, I'm very puzzled why, after the same T shirt was found on her remains, there wasn't a police and FBI forensic search of the townhome. Not accusing JP or RM of anything of course they're not the only people who were in that townhome. And of course we don't know if the T-shirt remained there or was taken elsewhere after those pictures....but I don't understand why the townhome wasn't looked at in case any evidence/forensics could be found....at least I never heard of anything. I mean if I were the police I would have searched that home just because Caylee had been staying there so recently.... much less that!

We don't know that the townhouse WASN'T thoroughly investigated. It could very well be that it was thoroughly investigated but if nothing was found it doesn't become discovery. The only items that become discovery and released publicly are items that are evidence and will be used in the trial.

We're never going to get a check list of what was investigated and what the results of that investigation were. LE is thorough and checks into all avenues. They will investigate the people that Casey knew and hung around with, and investigate places Casey went, but if the investigation produced zero results it just doesn't get reported.

 

[Leila]

you're not sure why LE would look into the places where Casey had been and where she'd had Caylee recently? Even after pictures surface of the T-shirt from the remains scene having been at one of these places? OK, we're of a different mind there.

Yes of course with a search warrant LOL That goes without saying. Seems like it would be quite straightforward to get a search warrant for the places the child had been staying recently and where the mother (their chief suspect) had been staying.
Not just the apartments themselves, also the apartment complex dumpsters etc etc. Seems to me they would have examined all of these asap to prevent potential loss of evidence.They seemed doubtful about her ZFG story from the beginning and thought it was just a red herring so you'd think they'd investigate the places their prime suspect had been staying and where she'd had the missing child etc. IMO

*bbm*

Don't forget the T-shirt had no significance until the remains were found 6 months later. By that time SA was pretty sure of the evidence they had and the lack of any evidence that ZFG ever existed. The fact that KC lied about facts of the case and continued to lie up until the time of her arrest shows intent on KC's part not to let LE know exactly what happened to Caylee. It was "not in KC's best interest to tell LE the whereabout of her child" (paraphrased). This came from the mouth of her attorney, JB. When someone lies to LE about an important issue such as a missing child why would LE ever, ever think someone else had something to do with the child being missing. The child was KC's responsibility, in KC's care and KC can't come up with a reason why she no longer has this child. With all the information disclosed to date LE was right on with their suspect. The fact that there is no evidence, none whatsoever, that points to another person is significant. KC needs to wake up. We're not in "fairyland" as JB puts it. The facts speak for themselves. KC is in big trouble this time.

As far as my question in a previous post about the blanket being at JB's. That information didn't come from CA, did it? jmo

LambChop.................well stated! The bottom line is that Casey Anthony, the one person who should have cared the most about Caylee, lied from the beginning and covered one lie with another lie.

Casey's friends and acquaintances told the truth, some of them taking polygraphs, and LE investigated them and proved they were telling the truth and cleared them.

Casey is the ONLY one who lied and refused to tell authorities what happened to Caylee. And her attorney, as you stated, backed up her lies saying it wasn't in her best interests to tell LE where Caylee was.

This is intent on Casey's part. She intended to lie to cover up the truth, she refused to tell LE where Caylee was because the truth would reveal her role as Caylee's murderer.

 

[Pondering Mind]

no, as far as I know (unless new stuff has come out very recently) police never investigated the Glenwood townhome or the Sutton Place apartment either one, no dogs taken through (even tracking dogs) or forensics done. The two known places where Casey had been staying and taking Caylee. Except for that fast police walk through of the Sutton Pl apt the first day to see if Caylee was staying there. And none of the people's vehicles were checked out except for the back of TL's jeep and shoes he had in the jeep being checked with luminol/bluestar and checked for hair. As far as I've seen in the docs.

I think they would need just cause (and there was none) for a search warrant to do that, wouldn't they?.something called the 4th Amendment protects us all from people like ICA..Thank the The Good Lord!...Although it's possible that he would have allowed LE to search anyway..because finding Caylee for first and foremost on everyones mind except ICA..prolly a very good reason for that!


[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution[/ame]

snip~
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. The amendment specifically also requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it...

 

[Pondering Mind]

How in the world did we end up back here anyway..I musta missed something big!

eta~nevermind..

 

[Eidetic]

:truce: Mods, I'm not really sure where to put this, so I am going to put it here since I was looking at pictures of Caylee in her "Big Trouble" shirt again. For some reason I zoomed in this time on the one where Caylee is sitting beside Casey playing Guitar Hero.

I believe these pictures were taken in sequence within the last couple weeks of Caylees life. The first two were taken by TL on his cell phone. The third was taken by RM. To me, it appears we are looking at two wounds in the process of healing. In the pictures AL took, it appears in addition to the visable red wound on her right cheek, Caylee's left cheek is swollen as if some sort of recent trauma occured. Little kids with chunky cheeks wouldn't show much signs of an injury until a couple of days later when a bruise appears after swelling has gone down.
In the picture RM took, it looks to me like the red wound on the right cheek (which looks like a cigarette burn in my opinion because it is so raw and circular and Caylee was at the height were she could walk or turn into a lit cigarette easily) has healed but not completely and because of zooming in, it also appears the cheek that previously appeared swollen and tender is no longer swollen but there is a bruise. You may have to save it to your pictures, then zoom in to confirm.

Original photos:

Alright. :waitasec: So if Ricardo acknowledges the one wound I have not pictured in this post on her left cheek and says he witnessed it in January, that means Caylee endured at least three facial injuries within 6 months. :twocents:

 

[LolaMoon08]

:truce: Mods, I'm not really sure where to put this, so I am going to put it here since I was looking at pictures of Caylee in her "Big Trouble" shirt again. For some reason I zoomed in this time on the one where Caylee is sitting beside Casey playing Guitar Hero.

I believe these pictures were taken in sequence within the last couple weeks of Caylees life. The first two were taken by TL on his cell phone. The third was taken by RM. To me, it appears we are looking at two wounds in the process of healing. In the pictures AL took, it appears in addition to the visable red wound on her right cheek, Caylee's left cheek is swollen as if some sort of recent trauma occured. Little kids with chunky cheeks wouldn't show much signs of an injury until a couple of days later when a bruise appears after swelling has gone down.
In the picture RM took, it looks to me like the red wound on the right cheek (which looks like a cigarette burn in my opinion because it is so raw and circular and Caylee was at the height were she could walk or turn into a lit cigarette easily) has healed but not completely and because of zooming in, it also appears the cheek that previously appeared swollen and tender is no longer swollen but there is a bruise. You may have to save it to your pictures, then zoom in to confirm.

Original photos:

Alright. :waitasec: So if Ricardo acknowledges the one wound I have not pictured in this post on her left cheek and says he witnessed it in January, that means Caylee endured at least three facial injuries within 6 months. :twocents:

These pictures break my heart!! Poor baby girl!! I am sorry, but how can anyone look at these pictures of Caylee and not see that something was going on? That something was wrong? Not just the injuries... but her eyes! She looks exhausted. Like she hasn't slept in days. Looking into her eyes, these are not the eyes of a happy, thriving toddler. She looks almost... and it kills me to say this... hollow... lost... tired.

This is the first time I have ever said this, but I hate Casey! Despise Casey! Loathe Casey! Detest Casey! I can not wait until she is convicted! I can not wait until she is sentenced! I can not wait until she is rotting in jail for the rest of her life and no one, besides her parents, care to see her face or hear her voice ever again.

None of them deserved Caylee! None of them!

 

[affinity]

:truce: Mods, I'm not really sure where to put this, so I am going to put it here since I was looking at pictures of Caylee in her "Big Trouble" shirt again. For some reason I zoomed in this time on the one where Caylee is sitting beside Casey playing Guitar Hero.

I believe these pictures were taken in sequence within the last couple weeks of Caylees life. The first two were taken by TL on his cell phone. The third was taken by RM. To me, it appears we are looking at two wounds in the process of healing. In the pictures AL took, it appears in addition to the visable red wound on her right cheek, Caylee's left cheek is swollen as if some sort of recent trauma occured. Little kids with chunky cheeks wouldn't show much signs of an injury until a couple of days later when a bruise appears after swelling has gone down.
In the picture RM took, it looks to me like the red wound on the right cheek (which looks like a cigarette burn in my opinion because it is so raw and circular and Caylee was at the height were she could walk or turn into a lit cigarette easily) has healed but not completely and because of zooming in, it also appears the cheek that previously appeared swollen and tender is no longer swollen but there is a bruise. You may have to save it to your pictures, then zoom in to confirm.

Original photos:

Alright. :waitasec: So if Ricardo acknowledges the one wound I have not pictured in this post on her left cheek and says he witnessed it in January, that means Caylee endured at least three facial injuries within 6 months. :twocents:

In the last photo her bangs are longer by an inch...and the red mark is not very visible. Is that one taken before the red mark or is it after and it has healed?

(Lola, these photos do "get to me" too).

 

[LCoastMom]

In the last photo her bangs are longer by an inch...and the red mark is not very visible. Is that one taken before the red mark or is it after and it has healed?

(Lola, these photos do "get to me" too).

In the pictures taken with GGpa on 6/14, Caylee's bangs are cropped short and I'm not seeing any bruising on her cheeks. Could the third photo actually be the first taken, when ICA took off with Caylee earlier in the year?

Poor little sweetheart.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3564464&postcount=4"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3564464&postcount=4[/ame]

 

[LCoastMom]

Side by side.

The one on the right taken either 6/2 or 6/11 - the one on the left taken 6/15.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3567658&postcount=42"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3567658&postcount=42[/ame]

 

[Anais]

In the pictures taken with GGpa on 6/14, Caylee's bangs are cropped short and I'm not seeing any bruising on her cheeks. Could the third photo actually be the first taken, when ICA took off with Caylee earlier in the year?

Poor little sweetheart.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3564464&postcount=4

IMO her left eye looks to be bruised.