Caylee's Teeth

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  • #61
What book? I pulled my info from my dental assisting book.

The book I used to state all that tooth development info in Post No. 12 that you quoted above your post. I assumed you read my post. Sorry, Dr. Spock's book about child development.
 
  • #62
The autopsy reports are inconsistent on the number of teeth. This one adds up to 19 teeth recovered and 1 missing... which means 20 teeth, not 18. The other report says she only had 18 teeth.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/medical_examiners_report.pdf

It says on 12/12- OSCO received 2 teeth.
on 12/13- 3 more teeth were found

When Dr. Garavalgia (sp?) received the skull, she found 1 incisor inside the skull stuck to dirt.

She also notes that 13 teeth are still in place in the mandible

She notes that one incisor is still missing.

Still...all the teeth were found right near the skull. So why couldn't they find the one missing tooth?

(bringing this additional post by Lizzysf from the other thread, hope you don't mind Lizzy :))
 
  • #63
I think I need some more explanation why the missing teeth is a big deal. Caylee's body was there for months. A little tooth could float away, or I hate to even think this thought, if an animal got hold of some of her body, the tooth could have been eaten by the animal. (I think that is the worst sentence that I have ever written) Why is the missing tooth a big deal? There was more of her missing than a tooth.

Because "tooth" is written on an exhibit surrounding something that is sealed. People began speculating that JB was given a tooth to get DNA. Then someone remembered that Caylee was not yet old enough to have lost any teeth. The rest is history as everyone began thinking about why "tooth"? combined with the fact that there really is one missing.
 
  • #64
I think I need some more explanation why the missing teeth is a big deal. Caylee's body was there for months. A little tooth could float away, or I hate to even think this thought, if an animal got hold of some of her body, the tooth could have been eaten by the animal. (I think that is the worst sentence that I have ever written) Why is the missing tooth a big deal? There was more of her missing than a tooth.
No one can say with certainty that the front tooth went to the woods with her. What if? I am going to leave that door open.
 
  • #65
JMO, but I think that if there was (as is being speculated) blood or a tooth in the car/carseat, that we'd have likely heard about it way before now. I think Cindy would have told LE the day she called 911 or even possibly mentioned it during the 911 call.

If she blurted out that it smelled like there'd been a dead body in the car, she would have likely mentioned a tooth or blood in the car. KWIM? JMO

No, because she began covering up for Casey from the beginning - right after she made the calls.

Casey texted her Marine friend, "I already told my Mom and my brother". Maybe Casey confessed the truth of what happened to them prior to going to jail and they sprung into coverup mode for her. Maybe GA was the last to know. In the beginning I thought he knew but now I'm not so sure.
 
  • #66
No, because she began covering up for Casey from the beginning - right after she made the calls.

Casey texted her Marine friend, "I already told my Mom and my brother". Maybe Casey confessed the truth of what happened to them prior to going to jail and they sprung into coverup mode for her. Maybe GA was the last to know. In the beginning I thought he knew but now I'm not so sure.

I missed that doc about her texting her friend. I would Not put it past KC to have told him she was pregnant. Just a hunch on that one.
 
  • #67
it was so funny on that thread (original discussion) because it seemed like everyone who came to the thread was having a lot of the same brainstorms after reading Cindy's depo and especially after looking at Exhibit 22 with the mention of "tooth". Brought up a lot of the old questions about the missing incisor, etc.
 
  • #68
Because "tooth" is written on an exhibit surrounding something that is sealed. People began speculating that JB was given a tooth to get DNA. Then someone remembered that Caylee was not yet old enough to have lost any teeth. The rest is history as everyone began thinking about why "tooth"? combined with the fact that there really is one missing.

Also, the teeth were found very close to the skull, one was inside, why would one , especially an inscisor, be missing. If it had come out along with the other missing teeth, it should have been there along with them. JMO
 
  • #69
I was just looking over the autopsy again. Just trying to understand which teeth were out and which were still attached. OK, we don't know. I see.

OK, if she had her canine teeth in pictures (I didn't look again but I trust you guys) that means she did have the latest ones that a child her age would have, so 20 teeth. (Since the molars come in before the canines. That was news to me when I read it recently, too.)

In the autopsy, it just says 4 upper teeth were still attached. 9 lower teeth were still attached. 1 incisor was found stuck to the inside of the skull with dirt. 2 teeth were brought in by OCSD on Dec 12, then 3 more on Dec 13. Dr G says in the end, all teeth were recovered except one incisor which remains missing.

OK, so the autopsy doesn't say which teeth were the ones that were still attached, i.e., she should have had 10 upper teeth. Only 4 were still attached. The six that were out on top could include all 4 upper incisors plus 2 other upper teeth, for all we know. She should have had 10 lower teeth, only 9 were still attached. We don't know if it was an incisor that was out, or a different tooth.

The one tooth found stuck inside the skull was one of the incisors, we don't know what the other 5 that were found were.

For some reason I had always just been picturing the incisors attached to the skull, minus the one missing one and the one that was found stuck to the inside of the skull. (I never realized it might be all the incisors that were detached.) The teeth could have all fallen out during decomp, being baby teeth, or, they could have been knocked out during the taping or otherwise during what happened to her. She could have swallowed the teeth. The one missing one could still be there in the woods or could have not come to the woods.

OK, just clarifying this in my own mind :)
 
  • #70
Also, the teeth were found very close to the skull, one was inside, why would one , especially an inscisor, be missing. If it had come out along with the other missing teeth, it should have been there along with them. JMO

I think so too. I wouldn't think it could fall too far away from the skull if her mouth was taped when she was put there. It should be near the others. Especially since the tape was still there hanging onto the hair, so that area of the skull hadn't been disturbed by animals, for example, the tape hadn't gotten torn away or disturbed, the lower jaw hadn't gotten scattered, etc. We even know that a few hairs were still resting over the top of the skull, right? so the skull hadn't been scattered by animals or the elements too much I guess.

I'm not exactly clear how far apart Flag #4 and Flag #29 were. Seems like quite a few numbers apart, and the teeth were found on two different days, so I wonder where the teeth were exactly. But they say they were all found near the skull.
 
  • #71
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

Anthro report says missing tooth is the left upper lateral incisor.




*Caylee's carseat was in the right side of backseat.. If Casey was in the driver seat and did turn around to hit her, The left side of Caylee's face would be closer to Casey than the right side*

An unpleasant thought..
 
  • #72
Gosh. That's true.

Also if a right handed person was facing her and punched her. Or swung something at her. I guess.
 
  • #73
As a dental hygienist in a pediatric dental office and having looked at thousands of little mouths, I would like to share a few facts. The letter "s" would identify the lower right first molar. Baby teeth are identified using letters a-t and adult teeth are numbered 1-32. The upper right second molar is a, first molar b, canine or cuspid c, lateral d, right central e, left central f, left lateral g, canine or cuspid h, first molar i, second molar j, lower left second molar k, lower left first molar l, cuspid or canine m, lower left lateral n, lower left central o, lower right central p, lower right lateral q, canine or cuspid r, lower right first molar s, lower right second molar t. I did notice in the picture of her crying with Lee holding her, wearing the Ohio State jersey, it looked as though her bottom cuspids were not in yet. Also from her swim suit picture smile the tooth spacing is different than the last known picture with her great grandpa. Lately it has been noticed that children are missing the upper lateral teeth. They just aren't forming. I will have to take a closer look at some of the more recent pictures that we know of. In my opinion a lot of the pictures that are out there are when Caylee was younger. Most of her adult teeth would just be tooth buds growing in the bone. But girls sometimes have tooth development faster than boys and little girls have lost the bottom two centrals at 4 years old although rare. Caylee was not yet 3 and 3 is the age that we start cleaning children's teeth. Most 3 year olds do have 20 teeth however there are exceptions. Some have congenitally missing molars or molars that are slower to develop than the rest of the teeth. There are so many possibilities on why the numbers 18 and 20 are stated.
 
  • #74
Or for that matter I guess even if a (right handed) passenger in the front right seat turned around to hit Caylee. Why tape afterwards? To make her quiet I guess.

Anything is possible. Or maybe she had teeth knocked out during the taping of her mouth, etc.

One thing that also comes to mind is what if there was any shred of truth to the car accident stories. What if Caylee was hurt inside a car during an accident. ? But of course why tape her mouth afterward? OK, nix that. Unless somebody was just crazy afterward and wanted to hide the injury or whatever. Didn't Casey mention to Amy in one of the texts or emails something about Caylee having a bruised rib at some point, the doctor said she had a bruised rib? my memory is foggy on that one

Did you ever notice in that one picture of Caylee, it's one of the later ones I think, where she has longer hair and is in a really sweet little pinafore type dress, I believe she's at JP and Ricardo's in that picture, red drapes, anyway, did you ever notice her side-bite in that picture? She always looked different to me there than in other pictures, but maybe it was just a fluke picture, I just kind of wondered if she was known to do that with her jaw going sideways like that when she smiled.
 
  • #75
As a dental hygienist in a pediatric dental office and having looked at thousands of little mouths, I would like to share a few facts. The letter "s" would identify the lower right first molar. Baby teeth are identified using letters a-t and adult teeth are numbered 1-32. The upper right second molar is a, first molar b, canine or cuspid c, lateral d, right central e, left central f, left lateral g, canine or cuspid h, first molar i, second molar j, lower left second molar k, lower left first molar l, cuspid or canine m, lower left lateral n, lower left central o, lower right central p, lower right lateral q, canine or cuspid r, lower right first molar s, lower right second molar t. I did notice in the picture of her crying with Lee holding her, wearing the Ohio State jersey, it looked as though her bottom cuspids were not in yet. Also from her swim suit picture smile the tooth spacing is different than the last known picture with her great grandpa. Lately it has been noticed that children are missing the upper lateral teeth. They just aren't forming. I will have to take a closer look at some of the more recent pictures that we know of. In my opinion a lot of the pictures that are out there are when Caylee was younger. Most of her adult teeth would just be tooth buds growing in the bone. But girls sometimes have tooth development faster than boys and little girls have lost the bottom two centrals at 4 years old although rare. Caylee was not yet 3 and 3 is the age that we start cleaning children's teeth. Most 3 year olds do have 20 teeth however there are exceptions. Some have congenitally missing molars or molars that are slower to develop than the rest of the teeth. There are so many possibilities on why the numbers 18 and 20 are stated.
They did recover 19 though..so we know now there was 20. I don't think Baez would know to call the tooth an "s" tooth.. nor anyone else at the A's.
 
  • #76
Or for that matter I guess even if a passenger in the front right seat turned around to hit Caylee. Why tape afterwards? To make her quiet I guess.

Anything is possible. Or maybe she had teeth knocked out when she was being gagged/taped.

One thing that also comes to mind is what if there was any shred of truth to the car accident stories. What if Caylee was hurt inside a car during an accident. ? But of course why tape her mouth afterward? OK, nix that. Unless somebody was just crazy afterward and wanted to hide the injury or whatever.
No one saw Caylee after that day.. when could she have gotten into a car accident? She wasn't even with Casey that evening at Blockbuster. She was already dead. Who would be in the passenger seat? Casey acted alone the night of or early morning after the fight with Cindy, IMO.
 
  • #77
25spuo1.jpg


Caylee's teeth, a later picture. This is such a pretty picture.
 
  • #78
(I'm still not sure if it was Casey or someone else. I know no one else says they were with Caylee or saw Caylee after that point. But let's not raise a discussion on that at risk of sidetracking the thread! :) )
 
  • #79
25spuo1.jpg


Caylee's teeth, a later picture. This is such a pretty picture.

Definitely 10 teeth on the bottom and her laterals are present on the top. I agree what a pretty picture. I never noticed her little tattoo though on her arm. Thanks for the pic:angel:
 
  • #80
you know I had never noticed it before either until after I posted the picture
 
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