Cesar Laurean's Trial

[GeekyGirl]

Such as trying to determine if a left or right handed person would've landed a blow on the left side of Maria's head? I also have been trying to figure out just what position Maria was in vis-a-vis her attacker when struck. :waitasec:

Pretty much... but it's basically a lot of conjecture. Hard to know if she tried to defend against the blow or not without being to examine her arms & hands. In theory though, a person who was facing her would have to swing right to left (usually a right handed person's swing, but not always) while the reverse would more than likely be true if she were struck from behind.

 

[panthera]

This would have been a good question, except that her picture from the ATM was released... probably before this Marine was questioned about the party.

So true, however, that was my point. She most likely would not have attended the party with that sweatshirt on, right?

 

[panthera]

Pretty much... but it's basically a lot of conjecture. Hard to know if she tried to defend against the blow or not without being to examine her arms & hands. In theory though, a person who was facing her would have to swing right to left (usually a right handed person's swing, but not always) while the reverse would more than likely be true if she were struck from behind.

I agree it all depends on which direction Maria were facing when struck and if the crowbar was being held in one hand, or both, by the attacker.

 

[GeekyGirl]

So true, however, that was my point. She most likely would not have attended the party with that sweatshirt on, right?

A command sponsored event? No, I wouldn't say it would be likely, not impossible, but not likely. However, if she did, it probably would have stood out as being unusual. MOO

 

[panthera]

A command sponsored event? No, I wouldn't say it would be likely, not impossible, but not likely. However, if she did, it probably would have stood out as being unusual. MOO

And therefore, more likely she would've been noticed by more than one person, right?

 

[GeekyGirl]

I agree it all depends on which direction Maria were facing when struck and if the crowbar was being held in one hand, or both, by the attacker.

Okay, so this is going to sound bad... I promise my coworkers and I are (fairly) normal people, but we are a little inquistive. Let's just say that, hypothetically, if a "reenactment" was done to settle a few arguements, this is what might have happened. In this hypothetical situation, we didn't know the exact size and weight of the crowbar, so, hypothetically, we picked one that looked closest to the one they showed in the trial. All I can say is that I work with some pretty buff guys, and not one of them said they felt comfortable swinging our crowbar with only one hand.

 

[GeekyGirl]

And therefore, more likely she would've been noticed by more than one person, right?

IMO yes... I think so.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I noticed both sides tried to dismiss witnesses that didn't help their case. Guess that is customary.

It will be up to the jury who they found credible anyway.

IMO

 

[panthera]

Okay, so this is going to sound bad... I promise my coworkers and I are (fairly) normal people, but we are a little inquistive. Let's just say that, hypothetically, if a "reenactment" was done to settle a few arguements, this is what might have happened. In this hypothetical situation, we didn't know the exact size and weight of the crowbar, so, hypothetically, we picked one that looked closest to the one they showed in the trial. All I can say is that I work with some pretty buff guys, and not one of them said they felt comfortable swinging our crowbar with only one hand.

I also am thinking both hands were used when Maria was struck. With the blow landing on the left side of her head, presumably by a right-handed person, I am seeing the attacker facing her as that would be the normal direction of swing for a right-handed person. A left-handed person landing a blow to that area of her head would've most likely been behind her, imo. MOO

 

[dgfred]

I agree and I base my opinion on the evidence entered in the trial.

The State had no evidence that Cesar lured Maria to his home. No communication existed and they checked out all of the technology equipment from computers, emails and cell phones.

So imo Maria showed up there that day on her own. Now this was the same woman who had accused this man of raping her and had accused him as being the father of her child. So it makes logical sense imo that the unexpected visit wasnt a pretty scene. I still think due to the months and months of emotions building up it just exploded when she came there and this was a crime of passion imo and not premeditated.

No one premeditates a crime and does it inside their own home when they could have sat this up anywhere. I did agree with McNeil the burying of Maria in his own backyard shows panic and certainly not premeditation. If he or whomever had premeditated it they would have already devised a plan to throw her body somewhere else that it was unlikely to be found. Somewhere that would have no link to the perp.

IMO

I agree. Should have 2nd degree included!

 

[less0305]

Has anyone given any thought to perhaps CL and ML had "disposable" or buy-by-the-minute cell phones for contact? I've often wondered if they had some type of throw-away phones and when it went bad, CL disposed of them for good.

 

[panthera]

I noticed both sides tried to dismiss witnesses that didn't help their case. Guess that is customary.

It will be up to the jury who they found credible anyway.

IMO

It certainly will be. That's why I'm a little surprised the state didn't try to discredit Ortega's sighting of Maria at the party during their cross-examination, even though she was mentioned in closing arguments. MOO

 

[GeekyGirl]

I noticed both sides tried to dismiss witnesses that didn't help their case. Guess that is customary.

It will be up to the jury who they found credible anyway.

IMO

I think eyewitness testimony in general is pretty unreliable. Once someone " believes" they saw something, they can be very convincing, even if what they "saw" never actually happened.

 

[panthera]

Has anyone given any thought to perhaps CL and ML had "disposable" or buy-by-the-minute cell phones for contact? I've often wondered if they had some type of throw-away phones and when it went bad, CL disposed of them for good.

Good thought especially since they wouldn't be using the normal, traceable means of communication if they were not supposed to be in contact with each other. Of course, I had remembered that the MPO had expired, but obviously that wasn't correct since it wasn't mentioned at trial. :waitasec: MOO

 

[dgfred]

Has anyone given any thought to perhaps CL and ML had "disposable" or buy-by-the-minute cell phones for contact? I've often wondered if they had some type of throw-away phones and when it went bad, CL disposed of them for good.

Yes we threw it around a bit wondering how they kept showing up together.
But know we are wondering if it was alot of 'mis-sightings'. Even if they did, we will probably never know... :furious: . No evidence of any given.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Has anyone given any thought to perhaps CL and ML had "disposable" or buy-by-the-minute cell phones for contact? I've often wondered if they had some type of throw-away phones and when it went bad, CL disposed of them for good.

I don't know.

All I can go on is what was presented as evidence in the trial now and they could find no link to any communication between the two.

I really do think Maria got a wild idea to just come there that day right out of the blue. I think that will remain one of the biggest unanswered questions concerning this case. Why in the world would she come to his own home????

IMO

 

[panthera]

Yes we threw it around a bit wondering how they kept showing up together.
But know we are wondering if it was alot of 'mis-sightings'. Even if they did, we will probably never know... :furious: . No evidence of any given.

Multiple sightings testified to I'll believe since the witness(es) couldn't be just "mistaken" on several occasions, but I don't think a plan (for Maria to go to Mexico with Cesar's family) could've been discussed at any length between Cesar & Maria while at the PX or dry cleaners. So I'm on the fence on this issue, believing parts of the state and defense theories. MOO

 

[GeekyGirl]

I also am thinking both hands were used when Maria was struck. With the blow landing on the left side of her head, presumably by a right-handed person, I am seeing the attacker facing her as that would be the normal direction of swing for a right-handed person. A left-handed person landing a blow to that area of her head would've most likely been behind her, imo. MOO

That is pretty much the conclusion we came to, with one exception... If she saw the blow coming and tilted her head to the right in an effort to deflect the blow, it's possible it was more of vertical swing than a lateral one, which messes up the handedness theory.

 

[dgfred]

Multiple sightings testified to I'll believe since the witness(es) couldn't be just "mistaken" on several occasions, but I don't think a plan (for Maria to go to Mexico with Cesar's family) could've been discussed at any length between Cesar & Maria while at the PX or dry cleaners. So I'm on the fence on this issue, believing parts of the state and defense theories. MOO

I believe the sightings too, only the 'party' one is suspect in my mind.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Is the video feed still up?

I saw on another site where the jury took a break around 3:15 and was to come back at 3:30.

IMO