Cheaper by the Dozen

[Truthwillsetufree]

I haven't been following this case but was reading the last few pages and getting up to speed on things and I have a tid bit to share...
My step Grandson is 6 and is a very intelligient, athletic child. While sitting around the other day he told me in front of his parents and other family members that he got on the roof of his house and jumped into their pool. (Their home is a one story house) For about 5 seconds I believed him until his Dad said, "Boy you know you didn't do that" and Grandson kept arguing with his Dad that he did and then finally said no, he didn't do it then but that he was going to. Come to find out from my DD that he has told other people he has done this. What is in the mind of a 6 year old, I don't know. I would have thought the same as some others that 6 year olds have the intelligence to know that swinging from chandeliers or jumping from roofs into pools is dangerous and one might get hurt but after the conversation with the Grandson, I know that is just not the case.
(They have now added a door alarm to alert them if the back door is opened)

 

[CDS22]

I don't think Max would have suddenly jumped to swing on the chandelier. He was reportedly a very intelligent, and athletic kid. I think he was plenty old enough and smart enough about gravity to prevent himself from attempting a swing on the chandelier.

The planking I could understand a little more, if he saw older sibs trying it, and if he thought he could easily stay balanced upon the rail. But the planking theory does not fit with the way his body supposedly was propelled over the top.

The scooter could not go that fast on a carpet, imo. And I see no way that it would have gone over the rail itself. Scooters are bottom heavy. It would have to have been going very fast for awhile to make it over the rail. imoo

The scenario of him running fast and missing the top step for some reason and then falling over the rail makes the most sense, I suppose.

In terms of the 'physical' outcome, it appears most likely he was thrown over the balcony, if you just take into account what LE described was the way the body fell.
But I cannot come up with any believable scenario in which anyone would have thrown that poor sweet boy over the railing. So I am going to assume that did not happen.

People do things all the time that none of us can imagine, so I won't rule out someone intentionally hurting MS, because people hurt and even kill children far too often. However, I don't think the evidence points towards someone intentionally harming him. I do think the evidence points towards someone or someone(s) not being truthful about the accident because they were protecting themselves. I also wonder how quickly help was called to the mansion.

There is also the possibility that someone else saw the movie and thought they'd stage an accident complete with a scooter across the leg. Not saying that happened, just that it's in the realm of possibility.

IMO

 

[CDS22]

..i have no idea how maxie's accident occurred---but i do think it was an unfortunate accident.

..we know the chandelier factors in somewhere-------b/c in the AR it's mentioned that paramedics find it sitting there right next to him.

..as far as theories "not fitting" with the way the body fell---or "taking into account what LE described" ------LE put together a ( very brief, child tumbling ) power point for the PC------which, was horribly inaccurate.

..val of THM actually uses the data----proving how LE's brief little presentation ---was seriously lacking.

( why LE showed "a kid" simply running and falling---without factoring in the height of the kid, the railing etc????-----is bizarre.)

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1344
---how max's accident----DIDN'T happen-----

If he fell on or through the chandelier, or if it fell on him, it wouldn't be laying right next to him. That's why I think his accident scene was staged.

IMO

 

[SunnieRN]

How could someone stage an accident with a chandelier, without being harmed themselves?

 

[Brit]

People do things all the time that none of us can imagine, so I won't rule out someone intentionally hurting MS, because people hurt and even kill children far too often. However, I don't think the evidence points towards someone intentionally harming him. I do think the evidence points towards someone or someone(s) not being truthful about the accident because they were protecting themselves. I also wonder how quickly help was called to the mansion.

There is also the possibility that someone else saw the movie and thought they'd stage an accident complete with a scooter across the leg. Not saying that happened, just that it's in the realm of possibility.

IMO

In my opinion, someone could have just as likely been trying to protect someone else. There have been varying reports on who was even home at the time of the accident.

 

[CDS22]

In my opinion, someone could have just as likely been trying to protect someone else. There have been varying reports on who was even home at the time of the accident.

It's pretty easy to verify if everyone was where they said they were. It's also pretty easy to verify who else received injuries the day MS was fatally injured.

 

[justice be served]

In my opinion, someone could have just as likely been trying to protect someone else. There have been varying reports on who was even home at the time of the accident.

Yes, Brit, I am so on the same wave length as you. :clap:

 

[Morag]

I haven't been following this case but was reading the last few pages and getting up to speed on things and I have a tid bit to share...
My step Grandson is 6 and is a very intelligient, athletic child. While sitting around the other day he told me in front of his parents and other family members that he got on the roof of his house and jumped into their pool. (Their home is a one story house) For about 5 seconds I believed him until his Dad said, "Boy you know you didn't do that" and Grandson kept arguing with his Dad that he did and then finally said no, he didn't do it then but that he was going to. Come to find out from my DD that he has told other people he has done this. What is in the mind of a 6 year old, I don't know. I would have thought the same as some others that 6 year olds have the intelligence to know that swinging from chandeliers or jumping from roofs into pools is dangerous and one might get hurt but after the conversation with the Grandson, I know that is just not the case.
(They have now added a door alarm to alert them if the back door is opened)

Hey, I jumped from the top of a friend's rabbit hutch when I was 6! And my DH jumped from the neighbor's garage roof at about the same age. The young neighbor broke his arm on the next jump. And our current neighbor, now a teen, jumped from the top of a granite cliff-in our front yard- about a minute after I said, don't do that, Elvis, you'll break your ankle. He broke his ankle. Kids do things that they theoretically know better than to do.

 

[CDS22]

Hey, I jumped from the top of a friend's rabbit hutch when I was 6! And my DH jumped from the neighbor's garage roof at about the same age. The young neighbor broke his arm on the next jump. And our current neighbor, now a teen, jumped from the top of a granite cliff-in our front yard- about a minute after I said, don't do that, Elvis, you'll break your ankle. He broke his ankle. Kids do things that they theoretically know better than to do.

That's why they need to be supervised constantly, and why it's not wise to spend an alleged 20 minutes in the bathroom putting on eye shadow or whatever.

JMO

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum..

 

[Melanie]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how the chandelier comes into play, and that's why I haven't posted much (I'm just perplexed by this whole event). If Maxie brought that chandelier down with him, I would think he would have to fall "up and out" if that makes any sense.

How does one grab onto a a chandelier whilst falling - especially a small 6 year old? I haven't read how far the chandelier is from the railing, but assume it's probably several feet.

Was this an intentional act? I can't wrap my head around a 6 year old jumping and grabbing the chandelier on purpose? I also can't see him falling and being able to grab it either. Planking means your head is horizontal, and he would have to raise his head and almost turn verticle in order to grab it.

Or he was vertical and jumped, whilst trying to grab the chandelier.

So what position was he in when he fell -- has that ever been determined?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but there are so many threads on this case, I simply haven't been able to weed through all of them.

Thanks,

Mel

 

[Melanie]

That's why they need to be supervised constantly, and why it's not wise to spend an alleged 20 minutes in the bathroom putting on eye shadow or whatever.

JMO

I beg to respectully differ. I have a now 14 year old, and when he was 6 he was certainly able to spend time alone while I showered, got ready, talked on the phone, or surfed the internet.

A child that is school ready does not have to be supervised constantly, in which I assume would mean "eyes on them at all times". If this is not the intent of your response, my apologies.

I understand the need to monitor our children quite closely, but at the age of 6 a child should know the dangers of a staircase (vs. say a 2 -4 year old). My son was already in Kindergarten, and managed our staircase quite well. He knew it wasn't a place to play (ie, slide down the stairs, etc).

Personally, I cannot blame RZ on Maxie's accident because she was in the bathroom. Millions of parents do this everyday with their 6 year olds.

Again, JMHO.

Thanks,

Mel

 

[CDS22]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how the chandelier comes into play, and that's why I haven't posted much (I'm just perplexed by this whole event). If Maxie brought that chandelier down with him, I would think he would have to fall "up and out" if that makes any sense.

How does one grab onto a a chandelier whilst falling - especially a small 6 year old? I haven't read how far the chandelier is from the railing, but assume it's probably several feet.

Was this an intentional act? I can't wrap my head around a 6 year old jumping and grabbing the chandelier on purpose? I also can't see him falling and being able to grab it either. Planking means your head is horizontal, and he would have to raise his head and almost turn verticle in order to grab it.

Or he was vertical and jumped, whilst trying to grab the chandelier.

So what position was he in when he fell -- has that ever been determined?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but there are so many threads on this case, I simply haven't been able to weed through all of them.

Thanks,

Mel

No one can figure it out, nor has any plausible explanation been offered.

That's been my problem with this case as well.

I've often wondered if someone knocked the chandelier down on MS. You know, perhaps if an older child were planking and fell on him while he was quietly playing down below, or if someone were cleaning the chandelier and dropped it on him accidentally. But that's mere speculation. None of it makes sense, particuarly when you read the AR and see the extensive amount of injuries on his body.

 

[CDS22]

I beg to respectully differ. I have a now 14 year old, and when he was 6 he was certainly able to spend time alone while I showered, got ready, talked on the phone, or surfed the internet.

A child that is school ready does not have to be supervised constantly, in which I assume would mean "eyes on them at all times". If this is not the intent of your response, my apologies.

I understand the need to monitor our children quite closely, but at the age of 6 a child should know the dangers of a staircase (vs. say a 2 -4 year old). My son was already in Kindergarten, and managed our staircase quite well. He knew it wasn't a place to play (ie, slide down the stairs, etc).

Personally, I cannot blame RZ on Maxie's accident because she was in the bathroom. Millions of parents do this everyday with their 6 year olds.

Again, JMHO.

Thanks,

Mel

I appreciate what you've said, and also how respectfully you've said it.

I know what you mean about a child being in another room, or a parent being in another room, from time to time. We don't want to hover over our children. At the same time, I find it highly suspicious that neither RZ nor XZ had any idea where little Max was when his accident occured. As a parent, don't you kind of have an idea where they are? You can hear if they're in the shower, you can tell by footsteps if they're running, you can hear the refrigerator open if they're in the kitchen getting a snack.

RZ claimed to be in the bathroom that is right behind the stairs when MS's injuries occurred, yet she says she last saw him in the kitchen and doesn't know how he got injured and didn't hear a thing til she heard one crash. How in the world could a young child be doing something to gain the type of velocity he had to have had at the time of the accident to garner such a severe type of whiplash that he died from it? It boggles the mind.

 

[arielilane]

That's not the only movie where people are shown swinging on chandeliers. I was watching a tv series for children a couple of weeks ago and that show had 3 people swinging on a chandelier.

Thank you, jjenny. Please feel free to post links to other movies (anyone else, as well) of videos involving swinging on a chandelier that may shed some light on how Max's accident was possible. Were any of these movies watched by Max? That is a question we may never know.

 

[arielilane]

The video scene from Cheaper by the Dozen swinging from the chandelier appears to have been removed from You Tube.:waitasec: