Cheri Jo Bates...Zodiac Victim or not?

[Omori]

I'd be more interested in touch DNA on the watch they found. If it actually belongs to the killer and was preserved well, their DNA should be all over the back where it touched the skin. I don't know if it was a leather band or one of those stretchy kind where DNA might have been caught between the little springs.

I don't believe she is a victim of the Zodiac Killer.

I just read a book from Kindle Unlimited on Amazon Prime called "The Great Zodiac Killer Hoax of 1986" by Thomas Henry Horan.

In the book, he goes directly into the actual police files and then compares what is there to what Robert Greysmith has been writing and the differences are remarkable. He found that most people, when talking about the case, (including the police) are quoting from Greysmith about what the evidence is and not what the actual evidence in the case is.

It is especially true about the second crime at Blue Rock Springs attack of Darlene Farrin and Michael Mageau. I had always thought they were on a date and just happened to pull into the park. But there was a lot of stuff going on that night before they ever ended up in the park and actual witness testimony does not match up with what Greysmith claims happened.

Also questions on why Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday were really parked out on that road in the middle of nowhere.

It was a very interesting read and made me rethink a lot about Zodiac, especially, is he responsible for all these killings, or did Robert Greysmith's books and writing take over the investigation and cause several cases including Cheri Jo Bates to go unsolved.

 

[Omori]

It's incredibly insulting for a reputable publisher to title a book about the Zodiac murders a hoax. Tell the families of the victims it was just a hoax. This was done to sensationalize the book and get people to buy it. All the book is saying is that there's a lot of iffy and wrong info going around. Well, whoopee, welcome to the real world! That doesn't make what happened to these innocent people a hoax.

 

[snooptroop88]

I am not sure Zodiac was born in this country, there are a lot-- lot-- of spelling errors, and I think some (perhaps even many) are intentional, ambiguous and arguably clever, but I don't think all those errors are intentional. So I tend to think he's English Second Language because with the exception of these errors, he seems very erudite. Again, jmo, if he was born in US, he's first generation American. And he's just very, very dramatic, think he's in the arts, if he's not ESL, he may be in some very "niche" track or industry when it comes to profession like music, where he's proficient in reading (and perhaps writing/composing) sheets of music/notes, but not so much otherwise. I believe him on disguises. He left survivors, if he had no disguise, I think he'd have been more careful. There was that sick medieval executioner outfit. He can sew, nobody did that for him. I've wondered if he wasn't working with a theatre troupe in the area. That card he sent, the one with the pen, it's a Jesters card, Jesters by American Greetings. His whole sick act is like a dark , cruel jester. I wonder if he wasn't aware of the airplane cement (as I look it up, this is model airplane glue?) perhaps through construction of props or perhaps even through putting together more elaborate costumes. This becomes even more alarming because he'd then be highly skilled with stage makeup and wardrobe and could craft extremely elaborate disguises for himself.

On the night Paul Stine the cabbie was murdered, they were probably preparing for opening night at Presentation Theater at University of San Francisco for Mikado. That was the very next weekend, we know Mikado's in his letters. Stine's cab was hailed in the theater district about a 12 min drive from Presentation Theatre. They were then headed to a location about four minutes from Presentation Theater. I believe Zodiac may have been at that theater earlier that day and was returning to a location near that area when he murdered Stine.

Backing up for a moment to the prior August, Zodiac sent a flurry of letters that spanned from July 31 to August 4, 1969. Auditions were advertised for the upcoming Mikado production just mentioned here on August 6. So Zodiac's correspondence ceased right around the time auditions were called for the performance, and resumed shortly before opening night after he murdered Stine. Moreover, one message was sent by Zodiac after he murdered Stine, I believe, (October 13) and more messages do not start again until November 8, which is closing night for the Mikado production previously mentioned.

I believe he murdered Cheri because of the "time for you to die" comment. It is in keeping with his sick, twisted jester persona. But it's not just the comment, it's the watch. He left that watch behind. I don't think it offered any real clue to LE, I think he left it there on purpose to dovetail with his comment about the time. It was not set to the time she died. Only Zodiac, jmo, knows why it's set to the time it is, and it may have been random. For all we know, that watch could have been related to a prior victim.

Someone on one of the Zodiac threads mentioned they thought his name might be Ken, and I have wondered on this, too. Does anyone else on here suspect Zodiac may be Dutch, of Dutch extraction? Maybe Belgian? The reason I'm wondering relates to that "Ken" point.

 

[snooptroop88]

Also, don't think Zodiac actually knew Cheri. Like Bundy, the hate he developed towards women generally rolled forward in his life and he acted out upon targets that for whatever reason triggered it, jmo. He may be thinking of "brush-offs," but I doubt in his thinking that this particular woman had to be the actual source of the "brush-offs."

 

[Rtrnofthemac]

I'm going to go with not. The letters were proven to be a hoax the poem is whatever.

 

[snooptroop88]

The poem was authenticated, although that authentication is controversial.

If one sees how they "proved" the letters were a hoax, it's arguably as controversial that they've been determined to be a hoax, but jmo.

 

[snooptroop88]

I'm wondering on this. Suppose that poem was written some time before Cheri Bates was murdered. She is actually going to be the "next time," next attempt/next target. If the poem were written before the murder, that "rh" might not have been an actual sign off, meaning those are not the author's initials. Perhaps the killer had already decided on Cheri as a victim. The "rh" could be "Ramona High." He would not insert the actual high school name, that information is much too specific for Zodiac's liking and if found before the murder is executed could ruin his plans. And if he would consider that piece of information with the high school name too specific, there's no way I think he left a poem with his actual initials, he knows his goose is cooked if they ever find a way to ID him. If you read that poem with its rhyming and cadence, saying "Ramona High" as the final two words of the poem-- it fits with its overall scansion/metrical pattern. Here is the full text of the poem with "Ramona High" inserted at the end:

cut.
clean.
if red /
clean.
blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress
oh well
it was red
anyway.
life draining into an
uncertain death.
she won't
die.
this time
someone ll find her.
just wait till
next time.
ramona high
(FINAL LINE "RAMONA HIGH" IS NOT ACTUAL TEXT/speculation)

 

[bdsjr]

I'm wondering on this. Suppose that poem was written some time before Cheri Bates was murdered. She is actually going to be the "next time," next attempt/next target. If the poem were written before the murder, that "rh" might not have been an actual sign off, meaning those are not the author's initials. Perhaps the killer had already decided on Cheri as a victim. The "rh" could be "Ramona High." He would not insert the actual high school name, that information is much too specific for Zodiac's liking and if found before the murder is executed could ruin his plans. And if he would consider that piece of information with the high school name too specific, there's no way I think he left a poem with his actual initials, he knows his goose is cooked if they ever find a way to ID him. If you read that poem with its rhyming and cadence, saying "Ramona High" as the final two words of the poem-- it fits with its overall scansion/metrical pattern. Here is the full text of the poem with "Ramona High" inserted at the end:

cut.
clean.
if red /
clean.
blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress
oh well
it was red
anyway.
life draining into an
uncertain death.
she won't
die.
this time
someone ll find her.
just wait till
next time.
ramona high
(FINAL LINE "RAMONA HIGH" IS NOT ACTUAL TEXT/speculation)

A couple of observations: Since it was found after the murder, there is really no way to ever confirm if it was before or after. If there was a statement from a staff member who could 100% confirm it did not exist until a specific date, that would good information. If we were looking at a timeline of a specific legitimate suspect, I think we could put all of that into perspective. Heck, it may have been written on that same Sunday since the library opened up at 6pm that day and she was murdered several hours later. Secondly, I will have to respectively disagree with you on the initials. A first and last initial could have been thousands of different men in a heavily populated area so there is a huge level of anonymity to it. If the Zodiac was her killer, he would have taken joy in that fact. I think the handwriting has some value that may be matched to someone someday, but other than that, there is not much we can take away from it other than he was a pure psycho, whoever wrote it.