Cincinnati Zoo kills gorilla after child gets into his cage, May 28, 2016

[nomoresorrow]

What would they be potentially criminally charged for? And what if the guy who shot the gorilla missed and hit the kid instead (gorilla could have moved the kid during the shot)? Would you then have him charged with murder? What if gorilla was wounded but not killed? It would have produced the same effect as tranquilizer.

I think these are all very good questions jjenny. I wonder what kind of training/experience zoo personal have, in terms of shooting accuracy, in these situations - just curious.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think the fact that this child jumped down a 15 foot embankment is being glossed over too easily here.

Yes, 4 year olds do impulsive things. They color on the walls. They bonk the dog in the face with a toy. They dart away from Mom in a crowded mall.

But they don't jump down 15 foot cement embankments. I am still shaking my head at the lack of survival instinct this child had.

Did he jump or slip?

 

[sonjay]

He certainly had enough time to do these things if he was so inclined (but he didn't, did he?). Frankly, if he killed the child he would probably be alive. Painted dogs that mauled the boy who fell into their enclosure weren't euthanized. Tiger who killed his keeper wasn't euthanized.

And if they tried to herd out the screaming crowd and lure him away with food, he would have had plenty more time to do those things. Just because animal didn't do something in this instant doesn't mean he's not going to do it in the next instant.

Animals are unpredictable.

The kid who fell into the painted dogs enclosure is dead. So is the tiger keeper. Are those acceptable outcomes?

 

[jjenny]

Did he jump or slip?

He reportedly told his mother he wanted to get into the water (in the enclosure). Then he had to get under (or over) 3 feet fence and four feet of bushes. I don't see how he could have slipped. It's not like you go over the fence and fall into enclosure.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I think the fact that this child jumped down a 15 foot embankment is being glossed over too easily here.

Yes, 4 year olds do impulsive things. They color on the walls. They bonk the dog in the face with a toy. They dart away from Mom in a crowded mall.

But they don't jump down 15 foot cement embankments. I am still shaking my head at the lack of survival instinct this child had.

Again, another thing I'd like to have accurate info on. When he breached the barrier (via crawling under the scrubbery...), were adults (i.e., parent, others) calling to him to come back and he turned to face those speaking to him, all while backing up and falling over the embankment? IMO, I could see how it could have happened that way.

 

[sonjay]

I think these are all very good questions jjenny. I wonder what kind of training/experience zoo personal have, in terms of shooting accuracy, in these situations - just curious.

Apparently, these DART team members had adequate training. They didn't miss. They didn't wound and enrage Harambe. They didn't shoot the little boy.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

He reportedly told his mother he wanted to get into the water (in the enclosure). Then he had to get under (or over) 3 feet fence and four feet of bushes. I don't see how he could have slipped. It's not like you go over the fence and fall into enclosure.

From the pictures, it looked like the bushes went right to the edge. He may have crawled through and been over the edge before he realized it was there. Three year olds aren't known for their foresight.

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[jjenny]

From the pictures, it looked like the bushes went right to the edge. He may have crawled through and been over the edge before he realized it was there. Three year olds aren't known for their foresight.

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What did he crawl through the bushes for? He was reportedly heard telling his mother he wants to go into the water (and mother told him no). Are you suggesting he crawled through the bushes for no apparent reason? How was he going to get into the water?

 

[JeannaT]

Did he jump or slip?

Since it was his stated intention to go into the moat, I'd say he jumped.

 

[sonjay]

The Palm Beach Zoo came under some criticism for not shooting the tiger:

Russ Rector, an animal rights activist who used to work as a dolphin trainer in Fort Lauderdale before fighting to close animal captivity facilities, criticized the zoo Thursday for not killing the animal.


"They should've had a protocol in place, if there's a vicious animal, the animal should be killed," he said. "If you had someone there with training, the ability and the expertise, that animal could've been put down with one shot and nobody else would've been hurt."

And a zoo official said:

"So we're clear, if this were the last animal of its kind and a human life were in danger, we would kill the animal if it were the right decision," Aiken said.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/p...-zoo-ceo-press-conference-20160428-story.html

Killing the animal to save a human life is always an option that's on the table. Sometimes, the decision by the experts on the ground is not to shoot the animal. Sometimes, the decision is to shoot the animal. Every situation is different, and every situation has to be assessed and a decision made "right now."

 

[Coldpizza]

Leave the snark at the door please, discuss the topic and not each other.

You guys know the drill so no more warnings.

Thanks

 

[JeannaT]

Again, another thing I'd like to have accurate info on. When he breached the barrier (via crawling under the scrubbery...), were adults (i.e., parent, others) calling to him to come back and he turned to face those speaking to him, all while backing up and falling over the embankment? IMO, I could see how it could have happened that way.

From the description I heard, Mom was not the closest person to him. Another woman who appeared to be the mother (to another witness) was close to him, and when the boy went through the barrier, the witness wondered why that woman didn't grab him. Then the woman who looked like the mom said "whose kid is this" and then others began calling and grabbing for him. I think also a man at that point made an attempt to grab him but it was hopeless. He had by that time gone all the way through the thick shrubs and jumped into the moat.

 

[Tssiemer]

I just wonder if the gorilla had killed the baby what the reaction would be.


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[jjenny]

The zoo claimed that shooting the tiger was too dangerous because tiger was close to the body of the woman. So don't blame me if I am a little confused. Is it dangerous to shoot an animal who is close to the human? Clearly so. But in shooting of gorilla it's presented as the only safe alternative (as opposed to other ways zookeepers could have used, such as bribing the animal with food or using a tranquilizer).

 

[jjenny]

I just wonder if the gorilla had killed the baby what the reaction would be.


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Reaction at what? Generally a wild animal is not assumed to be responsible. Tatiana (the tiger in San Francisco zoo) mauled her zoo keeper and killed a man, yet people were still upset at her being shot and killed. Killer whale Tillicum wasn't held responsible for several people killed.

 

[KaaBoom]

Did he jump or slip?

Brittany Nicely who witnessed him going over the edge said, “He physically fell into the moat, but it was purposely.”

Take that anyway you wan’t, but I take it to mean he fell.

 

[jjenny]

Brittany Nicely who witnessed him going over the edge said, “He physically fell into the moat, but it was purposely.”

Take that anyway you wan’t, but I take it to mean he fell.

Fell? Purposely? Doesn't that mean jumped?

 

[sonjay]

The zoo claimed that shooting the tiger was too dangerous because tiger was close to the body of the woman. So don't blame me if I am a little confused. Is it dangerous to shoot an animal who is close to the human? Clearly so. But in shooting of gorilla it's presented as the only safe alternative (as opposed to other ways zookeepers could have used, such as bribing the animal with food or using a tranquilizer).

No, it's presented as the decision that was made at that moment in order to save the boy's life. Is it possible they could have herded away the screaming crowd and lured Harambe away from the boy with his favorite food treats? Sure, it's possible. The experts who were there looked at the situation and decided that option wasn't worth the risk. They don't have a crystal ball. They have to make that decision right now, and if they choose wrong there's a dead little boy.

While zoo officials have received criticism for not shooting the tiger, which has not been named, Aiken continued to defend the zoo's actions. He wrote the zoo is equipped to use "deadly force," but there are many factors at work, including the configuration of the space and the possibility of a high-caliber projectile ricochet.
​

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-mauled-death-tiger-broke-zoo-rules/83436614/

 

[rob]

In my opinion, when it comes to the life of a child (or any human) or the animal, the child has to come first. I think the zoo did the right thing. I also think they were in a no win situation, if they had hesitated and the child was now dead, we'd have the same griping. I hate that the animal is dead for doing what comes naturally to an animal. I also hate that people have to 2nd and 3rd guess everything that happens so negatively, which is common place now.
I also hope the mother/family doesn't try to profit off this and if they do, I hope they lose and are charged for the animal.
Just my opinion.

 

[sonjay]

Fell? Purposely? Doesn't that mean jumped?

That's how I take it. You jump off the edge, then you fall into the moat. On purpose.