Cincinnati Zoo kills gorilla after child gets into his cage, May 28, 2016

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  • #941
To those equating value as to Harambe vs. human; Rather than viewing the shooting/killing of Harambe as proof positive that a human life was more valuable than his, I'd suggest it be put in a different - and more accurate - perspective. Put aside for a moment that Harambe was an ape and instead imagine if he had been a male human whom a child had an encounter with. The "man" begins to act aggressively toward the child, swing and dragging him about... Onlookers and police are unable to advance and apprehend the child because their efforts only increase the "man's" aggression, thereby further risking the child's life. In order to prevent the "man" from seriously harming/killing the child, police have no alternative but to shoot the "man." They cannot risk tasing him for fear that the taser probes may not attach deeply enough to be effective and could then cause the man to become even more enraged. The "man" is shot and killed and the child is recovered. The choice was made on the merit of eliminating the one causing danger and harm.

So for those who continue to want to equate equality to this... imagine if a 3-year-old child, out walking with his Mom & siblings, slipped away and entered the gate to your yard. Do you view him as an intruder and begin dragging/tossing him around? Of course not, BUT if you did and the police were called and could not safely approach to recover the child from you, you'd likely be shot as well. Would anyone then be arguing about your value vs. the child? No.

JMO ~

(Not sure if you mean me, but...)

I think the zoo made the right decision to save the boy's life. For me it's not that in this instance there was an equality issue - it's the overall attitude of humans that we are more important and animals are lower beings and it's our right to use and abuse them as we see fit. That's how we got here and look how many animals are paying the price.
 
  • #942
I viewed the available video and at least from what is on video, I completely disagree that Harambe was acting aggressively. He wasn't trying to attack this child. He carried the child by child's limb, but there are videos of gorillas carrying gorilla babies that way (and they are not trying to harm them). Harambe was being a gorilla.

I completely agree. but the reality is that Harambe could EASILY have killed this child playing with him. People need to accept this.
 
  • #943
(Not sure if you mean me, but...)

I think the zoo made the right decision to say the boy's life. For me it's not that in this instance there was an equality issue - it's the overall attitude of humans that we are more important and animals are lower beings and it's our right to use and abuse them as we see fit. That's how we got here and look how many animals are paying the price.

(BBM^^^) I completely agree and wish this had never happened!!
 
  • #944
remove all mentions of aggression from the argument and it is still just as sound. additionally, the video does not show the entirety of the encounter.

So if the child went into somebody's yard, and that somebody was playing with that child, are you suggesting it would be just fine to shoot and kill that somebody?
 
  • #945
I completely agree. but the reality is that Harambe could EASILY have killed this child playing with him. People need to accept this.

Fact it, he didn't.
 
  • #946
So if the child went into somebody's yard, and that somebody was playing with that child, are you suggesting it would be just fine to shoot and kill that somebody?

if the person in the yard was playing with the child by repeatedly dragging him violently by an ankle over concrete and in and out of water, then yes, i could imagine people deciding to shoot the person after repeated attempts to get him to stop.
 
  • #947
So if the child went into somebody's yard, and that somebody was playing with that child, are you suggesting it would be just fine to shoot and kill that somebody?

We're talking about a silverback gorilla -- not a neighbor.
 
  • #948
I viewed the available video and at least from what is on video, I completely disagree that Harambe was acting aggressively. He wasn't trying to attack this child. He carried the child by child's limb, but there are videos of gorillas carrying gorilla babies that way (and they are not trying to harm them). Harambe was being a gorilla.

I don't agree, I think the boy would have died, he was dragging him aggressively through the water and there are reports he tossed the boy 10 foot in the air.

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/10208874

Article mentioning Harambe throwing the boy in the air: http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-01/witness-describes-harambe-incident/7468716

It's easy for us to look at a short video and think we know whether or not an animal unknown to us is acting aggressively, but we should defer to the experts who are trained in the field IMO.
 
  • #949
I viewed the available video and at least from what is on video, I completely disagree that Harambe was acting aggressively. He wasn't trying to attack this child. He carried the child by child's limb, but there are videos of gorillas carrying gorilla babies that way (and they are not trying to harm them). Harambe was being a gorilla.

This wasn't a gorilla carrying or playing with a baby gorilla. Human babies aren't meant to be carried by their limbs or violently shaken for that matter. I wonder how many parents would be fine with their three year old in the gorilla enclosure, because after all, the gorilla was just being a gorilla. I would wager not very many. Would you?
 
  • #950
So if the child went into somebody's yard, and that somebody was playing with that child, are you suggesting it would be just fine to shoot and kill that somebody?

If they are playing with him by dragging him around the yard by one leg or endangering his life in some other way, then yes deadly force would be 100% justified.
 
  • #951
This wasn't a gorilla carrying or playing with a baby gorilla. Human babies aren't meant to be carried by their limbs or violently shaken for that matter. I wonder how many parents would be fine with their three year old in the gorilla enclosure, because after all, the gorilla was just being a gorilla. I would wager not very many. Would you?

That human baby should have stayed away from that gorilla exhibit.
 
  • #952
  • #953
Sadly, even with the press conference's exoneration of the mother, I expect that many will continue to bash her. They'll deny the police findings just as they denied all of the witness statements.

I won't. I'm satisfied that there was a thorough investigation of the family, witness interviews/statements, video/photos, etc. of the incident. The parents have been cleared of any negligence on their part in the unfortunate incident.
 
  • #954
  • #955
oops...

http://kutv.com/news/local/leopard-escapes-cage-at-hogle-zoo-visitors-pushed-into-closed-buildings

A leopard at Hogle Zoo escaped its enclosure Tuesday morning, forcing patrons to take shelter.
That's the zoo I went to as a kid! I loved that place! It had a drinking fountain that looked like a lion and you had to put your head inside the lion's mouth to get a drink. Little flourish had such great times there, although that was also the zoo where I had a run in with a mean person later in life.

Anyway, scary! I tease my cats about being little leopards and tigers and panthers but I'd really be scared if I came face to face with a big cat.
 
  • #956
  • #957
  • #958
The new rope barrier in the gorilla exhibit seems perfect for kids to climb(their feet fit right into the rope holes). So, zoo sniper team, better get ready.
"And as this video shows, children are still able to scale the protective barrier to climb, or fall into, the area."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/harambe-gorilla-shooting-dont-jump-8134784


a quote above that video reads.........
[h=2]The shocking video shows adults warning a young boy from climbing in to the area at Cincinnati Zoo[/h]
so my question is......why couldn't the mother of the child who fell in do the same thing? :thinking:
 
  • #959
a quote above that video reads.........
[h=2]The shocking video shows adults warning a young boy from climbing in to the area at Cincinnati Zoo[/h]
so my question is......why couldn't the mother of the child who fell in do the same thing? :thinking:

Because a week ago no one thought a kid would be able to get past the barriers. Now everyone knows.
 
  • #960
IMO the ideal solution (which would never happen because zoos are so tourist/money hungry) would be clear waivers/rules for those that trespass into the animal enclosures.

If an animal is loose the zoo will put visitor safety first. If a visitor illegally enters an animal's enclosure for any reason the zoo will put the safety and well being of the animal ahead of that of the trespasser.
 
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