Cindy's Coworkers @ Gentiva

[CuriousTwo]

TWA....

Looks to me (from link) that this Debbie P interview was released in doc dump on January 21 2009?

I thought Debbie P's interview was released 6/25/10?

http://www.wftv.com/news/23080678/detail.html

I didn't find an interview that was released in January '09 for her. Just wondering.

 

[LinasK]

The following is my humble opinion -- no expertise here and anyone is free to jump in.

I think CA made that phone call because she is a mandated reporter. CA was protecting herself and her ability to make a living. Things had gotten out of hand and the odor in the car didn't necessarily convince CA because she didn't want to believe it. We've seen the dynamics that in that family, truth is negotiable. However, the odor in the car along with KC's statement that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days was enough to nudge CA into making the mandated reporter call. Mandated reporter calls are required to go to law enforcement and that's who she called.

On the other hand, the fact that CA did make that call is also some strong evidence that CA did not believe Caylee was dead at that time. There is no requirement to make a mandated reporter report concerning a dead child. The child is no longer an abused child. The child no longer exists. The statute for protecting an abused child is no longer operative on the situation. At that point, it has become only a criminal homicide investigation.

The reason CA feels overwhelming guilt now for making that call is because she didn't have to make that call; when she thought she did have to make it to comply with the mandated reporter laws, to save her own nursing license and to save her ability to make a living.

Although I agree that Cindy is a Mandatory Reporter (in cases of abuse) because she was a Licensed Home Health Nurse/Case Manager*, I do NOT believe that is the reason she called 911. She wasn't at work and she wasn't in nursing mode. (Unless you are theorizing that Cindy had to call because she had told her supervisors and co-workers about the smell in the car, but she didn't report that in the initial call...) I really believe the 1st 911 call was made as a bluff to Casey with the theft of the car, and the stolen money. If Cindy had any idea that Caylee was really dead and not just with another person, she would have never called LE, and Caylee would have been out-of-sight, out-of-mind. Only the extended family might have inquired where she was, Caylee wasn't in pre-school, and had no regular friends, playgroups, or even a pediatrician. Who would have noticed???
* I spent several years working in Home Health as a Therapist, and even for Gentiva Health Services.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Although I agree that Cindy is a Mandatory Reporter (in cases of abuse) because she was a Licensed Home Health Nurse/Case Manager*, I do NOT believe that is the reason she called 911. She wasn't at work and she wasn't in nursing mode. (Unless you are theorizing that Cindy had to call because she had told her supervisors and co-workers about the smell in the car, but she didn't report that in the initial call...) I really believe the 1st 911 call was made as a bluff to Casey with the theft of the car, and the stolen money. If Cindy had any idea that Caylee was really dead and not just with another person, she would have never called LE, and Caylee would have been out-of-sight, out-of-mind. Only the extended family might have inquired where she was, Caylee wasn't in pre-school, and had no regular friends, playgroups, or even a pediatrician. Who would have noticed???
* I spent several years working in Home Health as a Therapist, and even for Gentiva Health Services.

I agree, LinasK. Your position is also strengthened by the fact that Cindy is the furthest thing from a rule follower that I've ever seen. (I'm having flashes of her waving her hand in court to get the judge's attention so she could address him from the audience!) She impresses me as the type that thinks rules were written for all the other people to follow in order to make her life easier ~ but don't necessarily apply to her. I just don't believe the fact that she was a mandated reporter ever weighed into her decision(s) to call 911.

 

[countzero]

Although I agree that Cindy is a Mandatory Reporter (in cases of abuse) because she was a Licensed Home Health Nurse/Case Manager*, I do NOT believe that is the reason she called 911. She wasn't at work and she wasn't in nursing mode. (Unless you are theorizing that Cindy had to call because she had told her supervisors and co-workers about the smell in the car, but she didn't report that in the initial call...) I really believe the 1st 911 call was made as a bluff to Casey with the theft of the car, and the stolen money. If Cindy had any idea that Caylee was really dead and not just with another person, she would have never called LE, and Caylee would have been out-of-sight, out-of-mind. Only the extended family might have inquired where she was, Caylee wasn't in pre-school, and had no regular friends, playgroups, or even a pediatrician. Who would have noticed???
* I spent several years working in Home Health as a Therapist, and even for Gentiva Health Services.

rbbm

The tow yard guy ONLY knew about the smell when GA pointed it out to him. This is what I don't understand about the As. ICA made up the squirrel story and told a few about it. CA tells her co workers about it, makes a text to ICA, "call me big prob" and GA moves his lips about it, yet they don't do a dang thing about until the people they talk to tell them there "might" be a problem. So six-seven hours later after smelling death, cleaning out the evidence in the vehicle, washing evidence from the vehicle CA makes two false 911 calls, picks up ICA and then decides the smell is important!!!!

I don't buy any of it. Had the tow yard guy not been in direct contact with the Pontiac and the odor, no one would have known Caylee had been murdered. He and Kronk are Caylees Heros.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I thought Debbie P's interview was released 6/25/10?

http://www.wftv.com/news/23080678/detail.html

I didn't find an interview that was released in January '09 for her. Just wondering.

My mistake....it was NOT the transcript of the actual interview that was released on January 21 2009...it was the OCSD Supplemental Report containing summary of statements by Debbie P, and then refers to the actual transcript (which had not been released at that point).

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I found it odd back then and still do. I know Cindy is just a grandmother to Caylee, but she was her main care taker, so why did Cindy not report Caylee missing either? Odd how she started saying that she had not seen Caylee in a while after her vacation in July. Who takes two vacations back to back normally? IMO, Cindy knew what happen..I used to wonder if what happen didn't happen at her hands. I know most will not agree, but just trying to keep an open mind here. Cindy to me has just as many "motives" as Casey. If, and that is a "Big" IF Casey is innocent, then IMO Cindy would be the one to blame. I am shocked that Baez has not used this as a defense. It would be a reason for Casey to party on like nothing was wrong. She thought Cindy had Caylee? Just thinking out loud here. Sorry for going off topic. I do feel IMO that Cindy knew Caylee dead and helped in the cover up. Why else would she just return to work with the car smelling bad and not seeing her grandchild that lived with her 24/7 that she cared for? The only difference is that Cindy did not give birth to Caylee. :truce:

"Snip" http://www.wftv.com/news/18530380/detail.html
PG 6
Debbie P. Said that in June 2008 Cindy asked to take some time off during the day to take care of some problems she was having at home that George and her were fighting, (about money?) Said that George was mad at Casey. Around this same time, Cynthia told Debbie that she was upset and complained that she always has Caylee. DP told her maybe she should get legal custody of Caylee. CA became agitated.
Cindy was scheduled to be on vacation the first week of June for a trip with Casey and Caylee so they all could "bond". Returning from vacation Cindy said that Casey was never around and she (Cindy) had Caylee pretty much the whole time. Casey had not even called her for her birthday on June 5th.
Between Cindy's vacations June and first week of July Cindy was heard around the office saying she hadn't talked to Caylee in a while.

Cindy was at work July 15th when George called her about having found the car at Johnson's wrecker. DP told her she should get the car, find out what was going on, get Casey.
A short time later, a co-worker came to Debbie P and said Cynthia was back at work. Cynthia told them the car was found at Amscot with the baby's doll and backpack inside. Cynthia also told Debbie P/ there was a "really really bad smell in the car". When asked if she opened the trunk, Cynthia didn't answer. Debbie asked Cynthia where Casey was and Cynthia replied "I don't know". Debbie P. told Cynthia she needs to go home and call the police. Cynthia refused, saying she had a lot of work to do. Debbie P. went to NR the area director and informed her of this situation. Nilsa told Cynthia to go home.

 

[LinasK]

After the bad PR she's brought to them, plus I wouldn't trust her as a nurse or manager at this point, Gentiva would be crazy to take her back unless they are forced to, by her agreement.
Her not getting prenatal care for Casey until 7 months, calling it "female trouble" and still not getting her to a Gyn, or even forcing Casey to have a pregnancy test done is reason enough to question her judgement as a nurse, let alone supposedly mistaking Chloroform for Chlorophyll, and her actions after recognizing the smell of decomp in the car.
Heck, I'd question her sanity now if she really believes Caylee is still alive, when the DNA clearly proved it's Caylee's ashes she's wearing around her neck, and that's whom she had the elaborate, invitation-only memorial for!

Bumping my post to add that Gentiva should definitely fire her, she's crazy to state under oath that she still believes Caylee's alive!!!:crazy:

 

[ZsaZsa]

Bumping my post to add that Gentiva should definitely fire her, she's crazy to state under oath that she still believes Caylee's alive!!!:crazy:

I doubt she is still on their payroll. If she has been on disability through her workplace insurance it only lasts 2 years. At that point you have to try for SS Disability or get a job. If Gentiva were legally obligated ( and I think their policies probably say that after 12 weeks they will not hold your own job for you) in some way to her then they would just hand her a job that is 'Mission Impossible', stand back with their arms folded and wait for her to quit..

 

[Tiki]

I wouldn't be surprised if CA has been on social Security disability for a while now. She has a good lawyer - that's what you need to get on it. It's not fair really - if you can't afford a lawyer, you don't have much chance of winning your case. Speaking from experience . . .

 

[RR0004]

I don't know why Debbie P. was late, but it was very obvious that she didn't want to be there. I can't blame her for not wanting to be dragged into this mess. IMO she doesn't believe it was anybody but Casey. It appeared to me she didn't want to give the defense anything that would help her.

 

[CentralFLMama]

She also did not look at Cindy when she entered or exited the courtroom.

 

[LinasK]

Bringing over ThinkTank's post from the other thread re: Debbie P's testimony:

I really liked that Cindy's boss - Debbie P. did NOT allow Mason to force her to say that GEORGE told Cindy about the "dead body smell", which Mason was trying very hard to get her to say. She said - NO! they BOTH said it smelled like a dead body. She was totally taken aback by where Mason was trying to lead her testimony. IMO

Go Debbie! You are my new hero!:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Gnatcatcher]

I wonder why she was late, too, that was very strange, almost monumental at one point. His honor even asked if there was any reason why she was late. He wasn't happy about that. I was very concerned, remember when Joe Jordan didn't show up that day for testimony? It just blew over then, nobody seemed to care, but this was too important. In fact, it's funny but I don't even remember reading that she was even SUPPOSED to be there at all! It was a shock to me when they announced it at the beginning of the hearing.

But in a way, her tardiness, her "entrance" if you will, is what made her testimony that much more compelling. She wore a lovely suit, well I wouldn't have chosen white, not at her age, but whatever, it was presentable and clean and appealing and not as if she were trying to hide something. She was nervous, who wouldn't be, none of us are seasoned testimony-givers at murder trials, right? Her walk up to the box was unsured, her voice was low and unsteady, but when asked to repeat herself she did. She raised her voice, repeated her same words, and ABSOLUTELY told her truth.

It came across so honest, and I think it's because she didn't appear to have any allegiance to anyone. So what if Cindy was her employee. They didn't have a socially engaging friendship, they didn't play cards on Friday night or go to Sunday brunches or flea markets together, Casey wasn't her niece or god-daughter, she didn't phone George on a Tuesday night to see what was for dinner, I mean, this was a woman who worked in the same office building as another woman, who witnessed a particular thing and she was nothing but damn honest about what she saw and said and heard.

I think all things considered, she was truly lovely. And I hope she sleeps well tonight, and I wish her health and peace.

 

[ZsaZsa]

She also did not look at Cindy when she entered or exited the courtroom.

That alone speaks volumes.

 

[Aedrys]

I wonder why she was late, too, that was very strange, almost monumental at one point. His honor even asked if there was any reason why she was late. He wasn't happy about that. I was very concerned, remember when Joe Jordan didn't show up that day for testimony? It just blew over then, nobody seemed to care, but this was too important. In fact, it's funny but I don't even remember reading that she was even SUPPOSED to be there at all! It was a shock to me when they announced it at the beginning of the hearing.

But in a way, her tardiness, her "entrance" if you will, is what made her testimony that much more compelling. She wore a lovely suit, well I wouldn't have chosen white, not at her age, but whatever, it was presentable and clean and appealing and not as if she were trying to hide something. She was nervous, who wouldn't be, none of us are seasoned testimony-givers at murder trials, right? Her walk up to the box was unsured, her voice was low and unsteady, but when asked to repeat herself she did. She raised her voice, repeated her same words, and ABSOLUTELY told her truth.

It came across so honest, and I think it's because she didn't appear to have any allegiance to anyone. So what if Cindy was her employee. They didn't have a socially engaging friendship, they didn't play cards on Friday night or go to Sunday brunches or flea markets together, Casey wasn't her niece or god-daughter, she didn't phone George on a Tuesday night to see what was for dinner, I mean, this was a woman who worked in the same office building as another woman, who witnessed a particular thing and she was nothing but damn honest about what she saw and said and heard.

I think all things considered, she was truly lovely. And I hope she sleeps well tonight, and I wish her health and peace.

ITA. I also felt like she would have had all the sympathy for Cindy in the world, but instead of accepting it, it was obvious by the fact that Debbie wouldn't look at her going in and out the courtroom that Cindy didn't accept that support, and possibly even distanced herself from people like Debbie. I used to wonder if people around Cindy that she wasn't talking to anymore ever really did have any like for her or sympathy for her. Through Debbie yesterday, I'm seeing that yes, they did. People were devastated by what happened to Caylee, and I am now sure they would have reached out and supported the family. But the family decided it was themselves against the world, and so they lost a lot of potential support from the people they worked with and knew.

Debbie was obviously devastated by what happened to Caylee, and that day that Cindy told her about the smell was still very much on her mind and it upset her to have to relive it. It upset HER more than it did CINDY to relive it, and Debbie was only part of a small portion of that day! Why wouldn't a person want sympathy and support from a person like Debbie, who seems to have a huge heart and a lot of sympathy for the fact that a child died and the grandmother, on that day, was in denial about how bad her situation was?

Debbie's testimony wasn't long, but it said volumes about the kind of people that were around the A's and weren't crazy or out there, people like you and me that really could have helped them through their grief. And what did the A's do? Alienate every last one of them in an effort to save Casey. And now those same people, like Debbie, are willing to tell the truth, but are not willing to cover for or lie for the A's. The more people like that that are on the stand at trial, the more the whole A family is going to sink like a stone, not just Casey.

It makes we wonder how many more people would have been willing to to testify and say nice things about Casey and her family had they not made it themselves versus the world. Now no one is going to step forward for anyone in that family other than poor sweet Caylee, and Casey is going to be all the worse off for it. It just goes to show that it's better to get along in today's world than make every little thing a personal war.

 

[countzero]

Thanks for your post Aedrys.

What I can personally tell you is this is how normal people react to a narcissist and/or sociopathic personality(s). They finally realize they have been manipulated and mentally abused by these people enough and no longer have any sympathy for them. They come to the realization that the relationships built over time were completely faked and they were being used. They being the normal and the victim .... and Debbie realized this immediately. So she was no doubt angry and mad with herself that she allowed herself to feel pity or concern for CA and CA returns it with ........ nothing ...... just drops her like a hot potato, probably without any explanation for CA didn't need her anymore.

 

[USARDOG]

What blows me out is that a woman like Cindy, described here as contolling among other things, would have allowed Caylee to be with a babysitter that she had never met, never nothing about. Makes no sense to me.

It appears to me that the A's relationship has a large basis of, "You lie to me, and I will pretend to believe your lies, and in return, you will pretend to believe my lies." In this way both can pretend to be in control as they both can think they are pulling something over on the other.

CA is able to hold to two dynamically opposite beliefs at the same time, quite an unusual trait. She is able to simultaneously believe Caylee is alive, all the while she knows Caylee is dead. I have a feeling this is quite a telling trait, as it would indicate to me anyway, exceptional personality disorder.

The family is dysfunctional to the point that they will IMO, end up in text books someplace.

I thought the co-worker's testimony the only honest testimony I heard all day. CA, sitting in the audience listening to the judges ruling, the only thing I can say when it came down was I saw a quick look of defiance, and lots of regret at being caught being honest.

CA makes my skin crawl and truth be known, I think I have found the one person in the whole world, who I would least like to be stranded on a desert island with.

 

[USARDOG]

Why wouldn't a person want sympathy and support from a person like Debbie, who seems to have a huge heart and a lot of sympathy for the fact that a child died and the grandmother, on that day, was in denial about how bad her situation was?

Your post nipped with loving care.

The best I can answer is, to accept support from Debbie et. al, would also have meant at least in some part, accepting their view of reality. Which would have asked CA to step out of her delusional world, the entire world of fantasy her family has constructed and lives in. Of course this would/could never be permitted and will not happen IMO, so you have CA, not be able to accept support from anyone who will not buy her lies and delusions.

 

[whiteangora]

In Session is replaying the testimony today and I have been listening to CM questioning Debbie.
Has anyone else noticed that CM has a snippy attitude and almost barks at his witness at times? I think this poor woman who comes across as quite meek was scared of him. He really needs to loose some of his McGruff tendencies. The jury will not care for these tactics at all.

 

[strawberry]

I just saw that too...loved her saying how upsetting it was, considering laughing lee's testimony prior