Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

[Bartholemeus]

Abundance of Sothis. Thank you Thank you Thank you. LOL at all the Anagrams on this thread. I solved this case and it was a crew. Arrests soon I imagine.

What anagrams? Or do you mean aliases?

 

[Sutton]

They came up with more than that. Everything fit. The only thing they didn't have was the smoking gun (blood or hair trace of the victims).

13 months after the last murder. Not sure how long any hair trace would stay in the car for? Blood would be able to be detected but the CSK likely killed the girls outside the car.

This is the biggest flaw in the case against LW. But it is possible he got a 100% hit rate.

We do know that up until now they do not have DNA.

All evidence points towards slit throats. Apparently CG was not sexually assaulted and JR's body was too decomposed to determine. I'm not serial killer expert but I don't think it's a stretch that a guy who kills women for sexual gratification without having sex also prefers not to have sex with prostitutes.

The search was 13 months after the last murder. They found a receipt for a car detail a couple of days after CG abduction. They also allegedly noticed a tool from a part of a tool set missing that exactly matched injuries that CG sustained.

What they didn't find was any forensic trace or the souvenirs. He likely didn't take the girls to his unit or his parents place. He could have secreted the souvenirs in the middle of the bush somewhere.

It also has to be noted that all the main suspects have been searched and nothing has turned up. Again, these were after an even longer time after LW was searched (years after) when trace evidence was unlikely to be still there.

This is an unknown quantity. Police also could have exaggerated LW's failing. But from what is in DM's book, it is alleged he failed it miserably and that 3rd party psychologists believed his demeanour and behaviour in police interviews was consistent with him being the killer.

???? He hits it out of the park. Probably the only one closer is Judoman but that's even debatable given LW's behavior and response to police pressure.

You're right. There was more than a milkshake. But I think saying "everything fit" is too vague.

Some things were missing:
•Past sexual crimes
•Past complaints from prostitutes. •Carpet fibers on the girls' clothes or bodies matching LW's car
•LW getting the girls in his car
•LW being enough of a mastermind to pull off the abductions, murders, disposals, and leave almost no evidence behind

We can't argue the hair evidence because 13 months is too long to say it should be there.

Regarding the missing tool, that is interesting. I don't see a link, so...? I'm willing to go with this possibility for the sake of discussion. But it totally depends on the tool. A bat would not be as conclusive as a handsaw.

I get your point about preferring not to have sex with his victims or with prostitutes. But he would not try to substitute a hand job. He would need something else (would not necessarily have to have sex with the prostitute).

I thought a psychologist said LW could not have committed the murders. Let me get back to that later...

Also, will reply to the profile issue later...I need to refresh my memory.

LW remains a suspect for a reason. I do consider him a serious possibility.

 

[billywhizz]

Anyone know who this guy is?

Tweet from Feb this year.

[video=twitter;570450416598536192]https://twitter.com/2671949/status/570450416598536192[/video]

Also anyone know if police spokesman (the one replying to Con Bayens allegations) Neil Stanbury is any relation to Jim Stanbury? Nothing suss - just interested to know.

Thanks

 

[Bartholemeus]

You're right. There was more than a milkshake. But I think saying "everything fit" is too vague.

Some things were missing:
•Past sexual crimes

DM claims that police claim he has a history of violent acts, one act in particular. Unknown if sexual.

•Past complaints from prostitutes.

He showed up at one prostitute's house. She had no idea how she knew where she lived but she lived at home with her parents and they had no idea that she was a worker.

When police visited the brothels, many immediately knew who he was and reported him as being extremely creepy.

•Carpet fibers on the girls' clothes or bodies matching LW's car

As per the above article, would be most unlikely to be present after a week let alone 13 months.

•LW getting the girls in his car

This is the million dollar question. To my knowledge there is no known circumstances of LW askig other women to get into his car(besides the decoys)

•LW being enough of a mastermind to pull off the abductions, murders, disposals, and leave almost no evidence behind

If what DM says is true, no doubt. Apparently was calm, never flustered, and often paused for up to 30 seconds before answering questions.

Regarding the missing tool, that is interesting. I don't see a link, so...? I'm willing to go with this possibility for the sake of discussion. But it totally depends on the tool. A bat would not be as conclusive as a handsaw.

I can't confirm this to be correct with absolute certainty but the tool wasn't quite conclusive enough for a forensics professional to sign off on it that the missing took definitely cuased the injury.

Apparently they were a cat-hair away from charging him.

I get your point about preferring not to have sex with his victims or with prostitutes. But he would not try to substitute a hand job. He would need something else (would not necessarily have to have sex with the prostitute).

He could have masturbated at the scene etc.

I thought a psychologist said LW could not have committed the murders. Let me get back to that later...

His shrink that he used in the aftermath said that. But the shrinks who watched the police tapes said it was typical for a person of innocence to protest their innocence. What did our mate Lance do? None of that. He never complained once. A normal person under intense questioning will snap and say stuff like "**** off. I didn't do it. It's impossible for you to have any evidence because there isn't any. I'm leaving because you can't hold me because you have no evidence", or "no I'm not coming down to the station you bacon ****. I didn't do it so **** off and solve the crime because while you're wasting time talking to me there's a killer out there".

The 3rd party psychologist who was an expert in such crimes felt he was a certainty. Allegedly.

 

[Sutton]

Anyone know who this guy is?

Tweet from Feb this year.

[video=twitter;570450416598536192]https://twitter.com/2671949/status/570450416598536192[/video]

Also anyone know if police spokesman (the one replying to Con Bayens allegations) Neil Stanbury is any relation to Jim Stanbury? Nothing suss - just interested to know.

Thanks

No clue, but he's tweeting with a vengeance.

(Also he spelled "whiz" as "whizz" on Feb. 24, 2015.)

 

[Sutton]

Some recent posts have mentioned how well LW did or did not fit the profile. These are all descriptors used to describe the CSK which I cut from 10 easily found articles.

General CSK Profile
•Arrogant
•Organized
•Clever, cunning
•Controlled man, with a job
•Ordinary person, indistinguishable in the community
•Motivated by sex, publicity and confounding the police
•Abductions planned and controlled
•Likely had a house in the area
•May fit easily into the Claremont club and pub scene
•Car enthusiast
•Almost obsessive about cleaning his car, would wash and wax almost daily
•Regularly takes long drives/likes driving
•Believed to have been familiar with the disposal areas

After the Discovery of the Bodies
•A person who is finding anxiety hard to hide
•May be absent from work
•Would be feeling stressed
*•May be experiencing headaches

IMO, LW fits these characteristics reasonably well. Of course we don't know him well enough to say on many of items.

 

[Sutton]

...The search was 13 months after the last murder. They found a receipt for a car detail a couple of days after CG abduction. They also allegedly noticed a tool from a part of a tool set missing that exactly matched injuries that CG sustained...

RSBM. Very, very interesting, if it's true. Was the alleged tool used in the abductions or only the murders? Any idea? Was it only used with CG?

 

[Bartholemeus]

RSBM. Very, very interesting, if it's true. Was the alleged tool used in the abductions or only the murders? Any idea? Was it only used with CG?

<allegedly>
Only CG. Most likely to subdue her once she got in the car.
</allegedly>

We don't know if the same weapon was used on SS obviously. JR's body was very decomposed but if this information is true then the injury sustained by CG would have been detectable after 8 weeks suggesting that the same tool was not used on JR.

 

[Froglady]

Interesting news today regarding dna from karrakata rape victim matching dna from one of the he girls I hope they are a step closer and it means they must have dna

 

[tracecomp]

http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/claremont-serial-killer-linked-to-fourth-victim/story-fns0kb1g-1227571349023

"Claremont serial killer linked to fourth victim"

"IT&#8217;S a mystery that&#8217;s haunted Perth for nearly two decades but now police investigating the Claremont serial killings have made a major breakthrough."

 

[GreenDevil]

Whilst this is exciting news, it is not entirely new. Police have always suspected that the Karrakatta rape may have been a pre-cursor or escalation of violence to the actual serial killing's. This rape victim would have been identified and extensively investigated as part of a living witness project and also a connected crimes focus. This however does not mean that the breakthrough is useless.

One of the reasons why this crime was not linked earlier is due to the MO of the abduction, which from what I recall was a blitz attack, where she was attacked from behind, bag over her head, knocked to the ground and bundled into a van. If this was the MO on all four occasions, it will/has turned the investigation on its head. It also means that it's a single offender.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Whilst I remain dubious I'm excited about the potential break through. A few thoughts;

1. It's still probably not DNA. Could be trace evidence that doesn't include DNA but links the CSK to both crimes

2. If there is in fact DNA then this would be through improved technology, most likely recently. We'd also assume before this goes public they would have compared it to LW, PW, SR, Judoman and any other prime suspect whose DNA they have. Add in all those taxi drivers. The mere fact that the media are presenting this story rather than "CSK arrested" suggests there is no match and CSK is not even in their echelon of suspects.

For this reason I believe it's still unlikely they have DNA.

3. Another option is that this story is a ruse to see how certain suspects react. A last ditch effort by Stanbury before he is transferred to a new role. Unfortunately my money is on this option but fingers crossed it's real and real break through is imminent.


A few more thoughts;

If these crimes are linked then police should be looking at every person who hired a van over the period that the Karrakatta abduction and rape occurred. None of the main POIs own a van so potentially they hired one.

This increases my belief that the CSK is a local man which to me sheds doubt on SR and TT.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Blitz Attack Discussion

One of the reasons why this crime was not linked earlier is due to the MO of the abduction, which from what I recall was a blitz attack, where she was attacked from behind, bag over her head, knocked to the ground and bundled into a van. If this was the MO on all four occasions, it will/has turned the investigation on its head. It also means that it's a single offender.

I still think unlikely but the odds on the tote board that sit inside in my head have reduced. The spot CG went missing is a prime spot for a blitz attack - some bushes right next to the path along Stirling Hwy and behind that a secluded carpark that doesn't front a road and is flanked by a church, a medical practice and the back yards of some large blocks. The question remains is why the occupants of that car never came forward?

SS was also in a decent spot for blitz attack. From memory there was a place called Monro, a home interiors showroom, and a few other business with little car parks off Stirling Rd and maybe bushes to hide behind.

Is it possible JR walked from Conti towards Shenton Park and was waylaid at the same spot as the Karrakatta victim?

Thinking about it, the CSK took all his victims from Claremont's Town Centre perimeter. The Karrakatta victim was about 3 blocks further than the perimeter. It's reasonable to assume he stepped in up a gear after the Karrakatta one.

 

[enzeder]

Fourth serial killer victim
http://www.postnewspapers.com.au/editions/20151017/view.php

Claremont serial killings: report links rape to Glennon, Spiers, Rimmer murders
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s-rimmer-murders/story-e6frg6nf-1227571502617

Police link forensic evidence from unsolved 1995 rape to Claremont serial killer
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...r/news-story/892372bf2e7886119c85f1860924685a

Claremont serial killer case: WA Police investigate 1995 rape lead
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...vestigate-1995-rape-lead-20151016-gkaq8i.html

 

[enzeder]

WA police silent on Claremont case
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...1647738?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

WEST Australian police say they recognise the intense public interest in the Claremont serial killer case but won't comment on media speculation as it may compromise one of Australia's longest-running investigations.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Read; "we will release a perfectly considered and strategic statement to the press to induce public exposure and won't make any other comment".

 

[enzeder]

Claremont serial killer investigation: Ciara Glennon's murderer reportedly linked to unsolved rape
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...claremont-serial-killer-investigation/6859620

Post editor Bret Christian said the link would not come as a surprise.

"When the Claremont series began, we went to an ex-FBI profiler in the United States and put the four crimes to him," he told Fairfax Radio.

"And he said, 'I would be looking thoroughly at that first sexual assault. I think that's your bloke.'

"I published this and we got criticised roundly for it and publicly for publishing this opinion, which turned out to be right."

Mr Christian said as far as he knew, police had not identified the man responsible for the 1995 rape, but had re-interviewed thousands of people since originally making the link a number of years ago.

"What's really chilling is that when they [the police] began a cold-case review of the serial killings in 2004 ... they announced they would be examining the disappearance of 16 women," he said.

"So who knows how active and for how long this guy has been before this."

 

[billywhizz]

interesting news

here is the Post article:
http://www.postnewspapers.com.au/editions/20151017/view.php

Says forensic link was made in 2009 - so that's 6 years of looking. it is not due to advance in technology.

Article also states that a crime expert back in 1997 told the Post that the first place they should look was links to the Karakatta attack. The police asked the media not to publish the views of outside experts. Well done.

however, article only links Karakatta to CG. may mean JR was exposed to elements for too long to get any useful forensic evidence

bartholemeus - you say CG attack wasn't sexually motivated/she was still semi clothed? whereas Karakatta crime was rape. anyone care to try and explain this? (sorry if I have misinterpreted latest lot of your posting, but I thought that's what you were getting at)

i think the cemetery holds some significance for this freak. it is located close to Hollywood SHS. I reckon CSK attended Hollywood or lived extremely closeby. it's not a place you'd want to go unless extremely familiar with.

Other quotes from article:
"breakthrough has led them to abandon focus on Cottesloe public servant" (LW)

Says PW has been eliminated also

 

[Hermithead]

Haven't heard from Barney Rubble yet. No political oportunity, no step closer to it being solved.

 

[enzeder]

Rape 'important' to Claremont killer case
Read more: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...n-claremont-case/story-fnihsfrf-1227571647738

A DETECTIVE who worked on the Claremont serial killer case says a rape in a Perth cemetery one year before the first murder could be "incredibly important" to the investigation.