Found Deceased CO - Adam Gilbertson, 29, Denver, 14 Dec 2017

[Vail]

Can drowning even be determined after a body has been submerged for so long, or any toxicology results with water saturating all tissue, let alone determining if it was accidental?

RSBM

Thank you for your background on Adam!

In most cases the ME can tell if the individual drowned or was killed first due to water in the lungs. Water does not saturate tissue as much as you might expect thanks to oils and fats in the tissue. After some time, the body will develop a waxy coating that is often the reason bodies can be discovered months later intact. Toxicology is also taken from any blood or hair/nail clippings so Adam should have pretty conclusive results for both things IMO. If he was not found clothed, it would be an indicator of foul play to me.

 

[Philigumbo]

RSBM

Thank you for your background on Adam!

In most cases the ME can tell if the individual drowned or was killed first due to water in the lungs. Water does not saturate tissue as much as you might expect thanks to oils and fats in the tissue. After some time, the body will develop a waxy coating that is often the reason bodies can be discovered months later intact. Toxicology is also taken from any blood or hair/nail clippings so Adam should have pretty conclusive results for both things IMO. If he was not found clothed, it would be an indicator of foul play to me.

Not necessarily on the foul play and being unclothed. Victims of hypothermia often present with “paradoxical undressing.” They feel hot from a rush of blood to the extremities as the body tries to warm itself and will undress. We had that happen to a young mother here a year or so ago.

https://www.livescience.com/41730-hypothermia-terminal-burrowing-paradoxical-undressing.html

 

[dspdenver]

Thank you for this info!

 

[Razz]

Thank you for this info!

The video that best revealed to me he was struggling somewhat and perhaps depressed, was the video he sent to the friend who had cancer. He was weepy, and maybe had been drinking.
It was dark and it appeared he was walking alone. He was also getting down on himself for complaining about problems when others had it so much worse than he did. I don't know but that bit of video made me very sad. Not for his friend that had/has cancer but for him.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk

 

[Lbee787]

The video that best revealed to me he was struggling somewhat

Thanks for this info. Where did you see it? Like many other WS posters, I have been greatly affected by Adam as well. I had abanded my dreams of becoming a nurse after flunking out of school 15 yrs ago due to a bout of depression. Hearing and reading about Adam has inspired me to go back to school to become a nurse. Thank you Adam!

 

[Razz]

Thanks for this info. Where did you see it? Like many other WS posters, I have been greatly affected by Adam as well. I had abanded my dreams of becoming a nurse after flunking out of school 15 yrs ago due to a bout of depression. Hearing and reading about Adam has inspired me to go back to school to become a nurse. Thank you Adam!

That is wonderful!!

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk

 

[dspdenver]

The video that best revealed to me he was struggling somewhat and perhaps depressed, was the video he sent to the friend who had cancer. He was weepy, and maybe had been drinking.

I did not see this video anywhere, either. Was it recently that he sent it?

 

[Dingodogloco]

I did not see this video anywhere, either. Was it recently that he sent it?

https://vimeo.com/249049182


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NJcares]

https://vimeo.com/249049182


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. He seems under the influence here--not sure if drinking or pills? He's alone, walking at night. Hmmm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KWest51]

Absolutely no new info on the case since Adam's body was identified. The Denver Post did not even mention his funeral.

I would assume the coroner would have reported if any obvious signs of foul play were found even before releasing a final autopsy conclusion, but with nothing from the police or the ME, I have to expect an inconclusive ending to this unless they get something from his phone or clothes (assuming those were on him.) Can drowning even be determined after a body has been submerged for so long, or any toxicology results with water saturating all tissue, let alone determining if it was accidental?

Autopsy results in CO are open records, so even if no media report on it when the coroner releases it, Denver will supply a copy for a $12 fee upon request.

From his public online life there is no hint of depression I can see, so hard to believe from his apparent joy in life and his family saying none of his friends they spoke to in Denver thought he would do this voluntarily, that a bad night at a bar would push him to self-harm. Of course, I only have an idealized view of his public persona and reminiscences and his private posts might be more revealing.

After getting his third degree, in Nursing, Adam seemed genuinely stoked to move back to big city life at the end of July for his hospice job, which didn't start until October. So maybe his expectations of Denver were dashed during the summer when he was living alone and was not working. I did notice that just after his RN Board Certification tests in mid-August he announced a 40-day total social media sabbatical without further explanation online, so despite not showing an inordinate amount of public posts previously, maybe something was going on in his real life/online private life that he was trying to work out. His public posts resumed at the end of September and showed no change from his previous ones.

Looking from the outside, I really would like to believe this world was enough for a guy who seemed so loved, loving and joyful, but I think there won't be any definitive answer. I tried to find some closure by going to his riverside memorial site and watching his funeral service online, and that helped.

Maybe, for me, it's because I've idealized him as someone who lived in half my years a more complete life, but I did not expect to be so affected by someone I never knew.

I unfortunately got the opposite feeling about Adam’s social media. He reminded me of a friend I use to have. He was severely bipolar, but if you didn’t know him well, you’d never know it. He made sure to make his social media look like he was the happiest, most upbeat person you’ll ever meet — this multiplied when he was manic. He also took many risks when he was manic. He also deleted social media for extended periods when he was having a extreme depression episode. I see a lot of him in Adam, and it makes my heart hurt.

 

[dspdenver]

Interesting. He seems under the influence here--not sure if drinking or pills?

Hmm, this is the Tess who spoke at his funeral service. She said it was four years since she lost the use of her legs after getting cancer, so I expect this video clip is from years ago, as he says here it was her first six month scan.

 

[Owl4]

Interesting. He seems under the influence here--not sure if drinking or pills? He's alone, walking at night. Hmmm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Adam did attend two different bars. I believe within a hour and 45 min span. I will not speculate or pass judgement on taking pills. MOO... I don't feel he was inebriated. Possible a few drinks. It was also very cold and slight windy out. Hopefully the autopsy results will be back soon enough to tell if and what was in his system and if was a drowning or homicide.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

[dspdenver]

I unfortunately got the opposite feeling about Adam’s social media. He reminded me of a friend I use to have. He was severely bipolar, but if you didn’t know him well, you’d never know it.

Someone replied to one of his Instagram pics that they wanted to be with his 24/7 cheerfulness, and he replied he definitely wasn't always cheerful, but tried to see the good in things. The longtime friends who spoke at his funeral mentioned he was the one who would cheer others up, nothing about him ever being so down like you describe your bipolar friend and needing cheering up or hiding away from them (but maybe they wouldn't at the service. There certainly wasn't anything but one offhand remark regarding his homosexuality.) I also didn't pick up from his public posts much of any idea of boyfriends and break-ups, so maybe he kept all that private or had issues there.

Adam did have gaps in his public posts and it is possible he mainly posted good things publicly and others just to close friends, or he just didn't care to post that often, like many people. I saw one somewhat down post when he learned just after the 2016 elections that almost all his family voted Republican, but just said he was okay, just needed to trail run to try to help process that info. So still not convinced he was that up and down. His friends and family that he seemed so close to would know, I'd expect, but we'll likely never know.

 

[dspdenver]

Adam did attend two different bars. I believe within a hour and 45 min span. I will not speculate or pass judgement on taking pills. MOO... I don't feel he was inebriated. Possible a few drinks.

From the timeline his family posted of his phone pings, he left his friends (time not listed) and then at 9 PM passed or was at The Triangle at 20th and Broadway downtown. I assume he was walking as his car was left where he got together with friends. Then he got to Charlie's bar (two miles from his car) at 10:45 and stayed 45 minutes, which should have only been about a 25 minute walk from the 9 PM spot, so maybe he was at The Triangle for some time. I read on Yelp there was a private party there that night, but no info was released that he was actually in the bar.

He got a Lyft ride back to his car and it should have only taken 15 minutes or less for him to drive home, so home by a little after midnight, maybe. Then he walked to the last bar maybe 4-5 blocks from his house and got there at 12:38, so he was likely home for only 20-25 minutes or so. Only 15 minutes at that bar before he left, so I also don't think he was drunk, as he did not spend much time at either bar, but don't know about The Triangle.

Then he walked northwest toward Alameda Avenue which is the first street where you can walk west to the river area to get past the rail lines and I-25. The only thing open there at night is a Denny's before the highway overpass, but no info that he stopped there. From Alameda at the river he would have had to go south a couple blocks to reach the area where his body was found, as the river runs northward. He could have walked along a service road on the east side of the river where he was found, but it is just trees and underbrush along a narrow area there with some homeless campers.

Can't think of a good reason why he would walk on that side, unless he wanted to go into the deeper part of the river that runs along the east bank. On the west side there is a bike path south to the park area where they held his candlelight vigil after being found, and that would be a good spot if he just wanted to sit by the water and think and is directly across from where he was found. So somewhere around there he could have been attacked, or he could have gone into the water on his own. If he fell in by accident I would not think he would end up on the other side as there is a large sandbar right there splitting the water from the wider east side deep channel to the shallower west side channel. The river is only about 75 feet wide there.

Unfortunately, from the unlocked door and keys on the counter, perhaps so no one would have to break into his house or car when he was gone, the ambiguous final Instagram video "For all my loves" and walking to this deserted area, I think he chose to go into the water. Sad end to a sweet guy (by all accounts.)

 

[Philigumbo]

Hospice nursing isn’t the best field of nursing for nurses with a tendency toward depression or who don’t have a good local support system in place. Decompression is necessary and I get the feeling Adam was lonely. He was in a new town and in a new job. In nursing, unfortunately, it’s often difficult to express to other nurses your feelings of inadequacy, despondency, or despair, for fear of being seen unsuitable for the position. I see changes in that situation and hope that goes away completely but it still exists. I pray that wasn’t the case for Adam. Hospice nursing is very rewarding but can also be very taxing on the emotions, especially a newer nurse.

 

[dub]

It was also very cold and slight windy out.

I don't know why this notion keeps coming up that it was "very cold" that night.

It was unseasonably WARM that night, probably mid-upper 30s and not windy at all.

 

[Huoi]

It's been studied there are high degrees of emotional impulsivity with most suicides. That the decision happens within hours or minutes prior to the person doing it. The fact he got home and left his car keys on the counter without locking the door says he simply decided to do it then and there.

The UK gas stove study proves if you take away means it can drastically decrease the number of suicides when people don't have easy access. The fact the river is very close by and easily accessible is notable.

The proximity to the river from his house would mean this is something he's contemplated before. I.e. planned or at least thought about previously, maybe fleetingly.

Plenty of rationalization we can throw around but without a note it's hard to understand why he did it when he seems to have been very well adjusted.

Based on my feelings working in psych the last few years, my education, and looking through his Facebook it seems like Adam is a sensitive guy.

Moving to a new place without social support would be isolating. Working with elderly patients dying on a regular basis would normalize and perhaps trigger his own thoughts of death and or suicide. Especially if he is a very empathetic and emotionally caring person.

Asking for help would be against the persona he projected online during this time. Someone who has it together professionally, socially competent, thriving in a new place but floundering on the inside. That dichotomy would feed into intensifying emotional distress if you expect to be doing really well but actually are feeling just the entire opposite. Imagine faking it day after day. It's emotionally taxing and wares a person down.

Additionally most of his recent FB posts have a deadpan smile, some rather cryptic quotes with deeper connotations with depression (e.g. the sea quote from the Mexican movie on his Instagram), and one particularly photo saying "everything has changed" made a few months ago where he isn't smiling. That photo speaks volumes to me about his emotional state. It looks like he's on the verge of tearing up and hiding something awful on the inside; sad eyes are a thing you get used to seeing in psych and hide a lot of pain and anguish. A rather out of place and vulnerable post compared to the smiling selfies and group photos.

Add the fact his family is mostly conservative and seem to have traditional family lives might mean Adam felt burdensome and out of place compared to them.

Working in psych means applying a patient history to a person's behavior and circumstance to get into their shoes. Hopefully helping you relate to them and working towards confronting them in a therapeutic way regarding their behavioral and mental health issues. That is when they are intervened and brought to the hospital.

With Adam it seems he would have been hard to intervene since he did such a great job hiding it. The fact his suicide video ends with a smile and a blown out candle says a lot about how he wanted people to perceive him. A carefully edited and choreographed means to dampen the magnitude of his decision to kill himself. Applied to his life, a careful and deliberate way to mask how unhappy he was. I.e. to keep up appearences

In conclusion whatever justification Adam had for not disclosing or seeking help for his emotional distress ultimately contributed to his death. Seems like he was there for everyone but unable to feel comfortable seeking them out for support when he needed it.

And that is the real tragedy that he wanted to be a good person but couldn't help himself and or didn't want to burden anyone else with his problems.

The more we normalize talk of suicide and depression the easier people will have being open about their own struggles. With that would be easier intervention and treatment. Hoping this catalyzes that for all of us reading and perhaps gives you the tools to broach the subject if you ever need to.

 

[margarita25]

Thanks for this info. Where did you see it? Like many other WS posters, I have been greatly affected by Adam as well. I had abanded my dreams of becoming a nurse after flunking out of school 15 yrs ago due to a bout of depression. Hearing and reading about Adam has inspired me to go back to school to become a nurse. Thank you Adam!

...

 

[dspdenver]

and one particularly photo saying "everything has changed" made a few months ago where he isn't smiling. That photo speaks volumes to me about his emotional state. It looks like he's on the verge of tearing up and hiding something awful on the inside; sad eyes are a thing you get used to seeing in psych and hide a lot of pain and anguish. A rather out of place and vulnerable post compared to the smiling selfies and group photos.

Oh wow, I went searching for that pic on his Legacy page. I hadn't seen it before and that does look like he's falling apart. Looks like he posted or edited it in late October and titled it "August 2, 2017. Everything changed." It was two weeks later (Aug. 16) he went off social media.

That is a heartbreaking photo. RIP.

 

[Razz]

It's been studied there are high degrees of emotional impulsivity with most suicides. That the decision happens within hours or minutes prior to the person doing it. The fact he got home and left his car keys on the counter without locking the door says he simply decided to do it then and there.

The UK gas stove study proves if you take away means it can drastically decrease the number of suicides when people don't have easy access. The fact the river is very close by and easily accessible is notable.

The proximity to the river from his house would mean this is something he's contemplated before. I.e. planned or at least thought about previously, maybe fleetingly.

Plenty of rationalization we can throw around but without a note it's hard to understand why he did it when he seems to have been very well adjusted.

Based on my feelings working in psych the last few years, my education, and looking through his Facebook it seems like Adam is a sensitive guy.

Moving to a new place without social support would be isolating. Working with elderly patients dying on a regular basis would normalize and perhaps trigger his own thoughts of death and or suicide. Especially if he is a very empathetic and emotionally caring person.

Asking for help would be against the persona he projected online during this time. Someone who has it together professionally, socially competent, thriving in a new place but floundering on the inside. That dichotomy would feed into intensifying emotional distress if you expect to be doing really well but actually are feeling just the entire opposite. Imagine faking it day after day. It's emotionally taxing and wares a person down.

Additionally most of his recent FB posts have a deadpan smile, some rather cryptic quotes with deeper connotations with depression (e.g. the sea quote from the Mexican movie on his Instagram), and one particularly photo saying "everything has changed" made a few months ago where he isn't smiling. That photo speaks volumes to me about his emotional state. It looks like he's on the verge of tearing up and hiding something awful on the inside; sad eyes are a thing you get used to seeing in psych and hide a lot of pain and anguish. A rather out of place and vulnerable post compared to the smiling selfies and group photos.

Add the fact his family is mostly conservative and seem to have traditional family lives might mean Adam felt burdensome and out of place compared to them.

Working in psych means applying a patient history to a person's behavior and circumstance to get into their shoes. Hopefully helping you relate to them and working towards confronting them in a therapeutic way regarding their behavioral and mental health issues. That is when they are intervened and brought to the hospital.

With Adam it seems he would have been hard to intervene since he did such a great job hiding it. The fact his suicide video ends with a smile and a blown out candle says a lot about how he wanted people to perceive him. A carefully edited and choreographed means to dampen the magnitude of his decision to kill himself. Applied to his life, a careful and deliberate way to mask how unhappy he was. I.e. to keep up appearences

In conclusion whatever justification Adam had for not disclosing or seeking help for his emotional distress ultimately contributed to his death. Seems like he was there for everyone but unable to feel comfortable seeking them out for support when he needed it.

And that is the real tragedy that he wanted to be a good person but couldn't help himself and or didn't want to burden anyone else with his problems.

The more we normalize talk of suicide and depression the easier people will have being open about their own struggles. With that would be easier intervention and treatment. Hoping this catalyzes that for all of us reading and perhaps gives you the tools to broach the subject if you ever need to.

Wow. From what little has been pieced together, I"d say you have hit the nail on the head.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk