CO - Boy, 4, dies of self-inflicted gunshot, El Paso County, July 2021

[PawneeDew]

El Paso County, Colorado.
Maggie's Farm, parking lot (Marijuana dispensery)
Parents arrested after 4-year-old shot and killed in Manitou Springs parking lot

 

[al66pine]

El Paso County, Colorado.
Maggie's Farm, parking lot (Marijuana dispensery)
Parents arrested after 4-year-old shot and killed in Manitou Springs parking lot

@PawneeDew Thx for opening this thread. This phrasing caught my attention:
"... body of a child was found in the area at about 12:03 p.m. Manitou Springs police were first called to the neighborhood at about noon for what was described as an “incident.” The El Paso County Sheriff’s Office took over the investigation from there.
“After preliminary investigation by our Major Crimes detectives, it was learned that a 4-year-old child was with his mother and younger sibling in a vehicle while the father went to make purchases, when the child discovered a gun,... apparently was a self-inflicted gunshot wound to his head.” bbm sbm

If 4 y/o was in the vehicle mother & sib when s/he "discovered the gun" (presumably found it while in vehicle), why was child's body found "in the area"? And w a self inflicted gunshot wound? Strikes me as, well, odd wording.

RIP, 4 y/o. Hoping family can find peace.

Parents arrested after 4-year-old shot and killed in Manitou Springs parking lot

 

[al66pine]

Even More Baffling?
Story* updated an hr ago, w excerpts from arrest affidavits** for both parents.
Briefly, parents knew son previously picked up the gun on other occasions (yes, plural), knew he could exit booster seat & get into front seats, knew the gun was loaded & "in the open of the vehicle" but they failed to place loaded firearm in safe location.
Article also says: Mr. P. "allegedly admitted to showing his child the gun the day before while it was unloaded." bbm
And further: "On the day the family drove to Maggie’s Farm, Carlos Perez loaded the firearm and stashed it an open glovebox in the vehicle." bbm

Seems like a lottt of probable cause for arresting both parents imo. my2ct.
_____________________________________________
* Parents arrested after 4-year-old shot and killed in Manitou Springs parking lot
** "Your affiant [detective] is aware firearms have been taken away [the child] on other occasions where he has picked up the firearm and attempted to play with it. Due to those incidents occurring in the past, both parents should have been aware of the danger of this occurring and the probability that [the child] would pick up a firearm within his vicinity. Both Mr. Perez and Ms. Perez were aware of the loaded firearm being out in the open of the vehicle where the [child] could easily access it if he was not in the backseat of the vehicle. Both parents were also aware [the child] was capable of exiting his booster seat and gaining access to the front seat of the vehicle. Neither placed the firearm in a safe location despite knowing the past history of [the child] and firearms resulting in this incident occurring.” -
^ Excerpt from arrest affidavit for Carlos Perez

** "Ms. Perez advised [her son] had done this in the past. Ms. Perez told [her son] to re-buckle, but he refused to listen and climbed into the driver’s seat of the vehicle. Then as she turned her head to look out the window towards the gas station (opposite of the location), she heard a loud boom. Ms. Perez looked back at [her son] and noticed his eyes were looking in opposite directions. She began checking [her son’s] side for an injury due to the sound. ... At that time, Ms. Perez looked inside his mouth and noticed the injury. Ms. Perez began screaming and trying to call 911, however was to distraught to do so.” bbm
^ Excerpt from arrest affidavit for Ashlynne Perez.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

IMO there is more to this.

 

[al66pine]

IMO there is more to this.

@AzPistonsGirl Agree w you.
This phrasing in initial story (which I read last night) caught my attention: "... body of a child was found in the area." bbm
^ Almost made it sound as if parents drove away, leaving 4 y/o in parking lot.
But story as updated this a.m. edited this phrase out of article.

Maybe reporter's first phrasing was a bit sloppy, or maybe the "drove away" interp.
was totally incorrect. Or both?

 

[cvaldez1975]

ok put him back in his seat? tf.....RIP little boy

 

[PawneeDew]

From my understanding the gun was on the dashboard..in plain sight?? Maggie's Farm in Manitou Springs (marijuana dispensery) is where the body of a child was located inside a vehicle in the parking lot; the mother and another sibling were also inside the vehicle. They were waiting outside while the father went inside.
Affidavit: Parents left loaded gun on dashboard before purchasing marijuana the day their son shot himself | FOX21 News Colorado

 

[al66pine]

From my understanding the gun was on the dashboard..in plain sight?? Maggie's Farm in Manitou Springs (marijuana dispensery) is where the body of a child was located inside a vehicle in the parking lot; the mother and another sibling were also inside the vehicle. They were waiting outside while the father went inside.
Affidavit: Parents left loaded gun on dashboard before purchasing marijuana the day their son shot himself | FOX21 News Colorado

@PawneeDew bbm Thanks for the update & link to the arrest affidavit itself for Ms P. (ADP), describing it as: "open front seat dashboard cubby" not just as dashboard. So yes, I agree, likely in plain sight, regardless of how anyone describes the precise location.
Hmmm. my2ct.

 

[al66pine]

Pic of dash in 2018 Dodge Journey shows a cubby (well, that's what I'd call it) in front of the shifter & the cup holders, which is where the gun may have been placed. So backseat passengers, like the 4 y/o, may have have been able to see it.

2018 Dodge Journey - Carvana
Click on 360 spin button, then "View interior" button.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Pic of dash in 2018 Dodge Journey shows a cubby (well, that's what I'd call it) in front of the shifter & the cup holders, which is where the gun may have been placed. So backseat passengers, like the 4 y/o, may have have been able to see it.

2018 Dodge Journey - Carvana
Click on 360 spin button, then "View interior" button.

there or under the stereo.

 

[al66pine]

there or under the stereo.

@cvaldez1975 bbm Thanks for your post.
Yes, another location the gun could be placed.

 

[PawneeDew]

@PawneeDew bbm Thanks for the update & link to the arrest affidavit itself for Ms P. (ADP), describing it as: "open front seat dashboard cubby" not just as dashboard. So yes, I agree, likely in plain sight, regardless of how anyone describes the precise location.
Hmmm. my2ct.

Mannnnn. What were they thinking?? I wonder what the dynamics are in that household? I Hope the surviving sibling will be ok..So heartbreaking..I wonder if mom knew that the gun was in that particular spot?

 

[everybodhi]

snipped & bbm
..the mother and another sibling were also inside the vehicle. They were waiting outside while the father went inside.
Affidavit: Parents left loaded gun on dashboard before purchasing marijuana the day their son shot himself | FOX21 News Colorado

Wait. What?
A kid gets a loaded gun from the dashboard, or wherever, and kills himself before mom noticed anything?
I'm so curious about the age of the sibling.
The only way I can imagine this happening is mom is in the backseat with a newborn changing a diaper or nursing and paying no attention to the other child climbing around alone in the front seat with the loaded gun.
Amazing how casual some people are about guns.

ETA: Nevermind.
Just WOW

"While waiting in the car, the little boy freed himself from his booster seat and climbed into the front of the car, mother Ashlynne Perez reportedly told investigators.
Ms. Perez advised [her son] had done this in the past. Ms. Perez told [her son] to re-buckle, but he refused to listen and climbed into the driver’s seat of the vehicle. Then as she turned her head to look out the window towards the gas station (opposite of the location), she heard a loud boom."

 

[PawneeDew]

Wait. What?
A kid gets a loaded gun from the dashboard, or wherever, and kills himself before mom noticed anything?
I'm so curious about the age of the sibling.
The only way I can imagine this happening is mom is in the backseat with a newborn changing a diaper or nursing and paying no attention to the other child climbing around alone in the front seat with the loaded gun.
Amazing how casual some people are about guns.

ETA: Nevermind.
Just WOW

"While waiting in the car, the little boy freed himself from his booster seat and climbed into the front of the car, mother Ashlynne Perez reportedly told investigators.
Ms. Perez advised [her son] had done this in the past. Ms. Perez told [her son] to re-buckle, but he refused to listen and climbed into the driver’s seat of the vehicle. Then as she turned her head to look out the window towards the gas station (opposite of the location), she heard a loud boom."

In my opinion, mom surely knew the gun was there...And casually turned her head to look out the window. I wonder if they always had the gun loaded? Safety off? Why??!?!!

 

[al66pine]

....I'm so curious about the age of the sibling. ...

@everybodhi bbm sbm Me too.
This info is from link in post #1.*
"4-year-old child was with his mother and younger sibling in a vehicle...."
Seems younger sib should have been in special infant seat also.
Seems both infant seats should have been in second or back row.
If specific age of younger sib has come out, I've missed it. my2ct.
________________________
* same: Court documents: Parents left loaded gun in open glovebox on day child shot self in Manitou Springs parking lot

 

[al66pine]

Sequence of Events? Mother, which seat?

....
The only way I can imagine this happening is mom is in the backseat with a newborn changing a diaper or nursing and paying no attention to the other child climbing around alone in the front seat with the loaded gun....

@everybodhi bbm sbm A diff part of your post. Yes, it’s possible Mother was in backseat, w two kids in infant seats, also in back. Likely? IDK. My most recent experience w infant seats was ~100 yrs ago.
I’m trying to work out who was where when, & how this happened. Trying to see sequence of events from prosecutor’s angle. Possibilities?

Mother in Back Seat?
A. Mother, middle back seat; 4 y/o behind driver seat; sib, right-side backseat. Initially in parking lot, both driver & front pass seats are empty.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood, he was right next to her, so seems Mother would have known immed’ly. Seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he did not, she could have acted."
3. Then to climb into driver's seat, starting next to her, 4 y/o had to virtually climb over Mother in her middle seat. Again seems she could have just put arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Then could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him.

B. Mother in back seat by one window; 4 y/o in back seat by window; sib in middle backseat. Initially in parking lot, both driver & front pass seats are empty.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood, seems Mother would have known immed’ly. Seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he did not seems it would not have been so easy for her to reach across sib & act.
3. In climbing into driver's seat, 4y/o was close/next to Mother, so seems she could have put her arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Seems she could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him.

C. Mother, in back seat by window; sib behind driver seat, 4 y/o in middle backseat. Initially in parking lot, both driver & front pass seats are empty.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood right next to Mother, seems she would have known immed’ly, so seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he refused, she could have acted.
3.In climbing into driver's seat, he was next to Mother, so seems she could have put her arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Seems she could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him.

Mother in Front Pass. Seat? <--Does this sees more likely than back seat?
So, both 4 y/o & sib in backseat.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood up, seems Mother would have known immed’ly, so seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he did not, seems she could have acted.
3. Then w 4 y/o climbing into driver's seat, seems she could have just put arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Then could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him. More awkward to re-buckle him from front seat? Yes. Impossible? IDK.

Okay, a 4 y/o can be fast, but how in the heck did this happen? Other ideas?

Seems Mother was not alone in this; Father bears responsibility, too.
Victim blaming? Well, both parents have been charged.
Regardless, tragic for the parents too. Losing a child in this horrible way?
Sorry for crummy formatting, typo, grammar, etc. Too late for me.

 

[everybodhi]

Sequence of Events? Mother, which seat?
@everybodhi bbm sbm A diff part of your post. Yes, it’s possible Mother was in backseat, w two kids in infant seats, also in back. Likely? IDK. My most recent experience w infant seats was ~100 yrs ago.
I’m trying to work out who was where when, & how this happened. Trying to see sequence of events from prosecutor’s angle. Possibilities?

Mother in Back Seat?
A. Mother, middle back seat; 4 y/o behind driver seat; sib, right-side backseat. Initially in parking lot, both driver & front pass seats are empty.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood, he was right next to her, so seems Mother would have known immed’ly. Seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he did not, she could have acted."
3. Then to climb into driver's seat, starting next to her, 4 y/o had to virtually climb over Mother in her middle seat. Again seems she could have just put arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Then could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him.

B. Mother in back seat by one window; 4 y/o in back seat by window; sib in middle backseat. Initially in parking lot, both driver & front pass seats are empty.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood, seems Mother would have known immed’ly. Seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he did not seems it would not have been so easy for her to reach across sib & act.
3. In climbing into driver's seat, 4y/o was close/next to Mother, so seems she could have put her arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Seems she could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him.

C. Mother, in back seat by window; sib behind driver seat, 4 y/o in middle backseat. Initially in parking lot, both driver & front pass seats are empty.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood right next to Mother, seems she would have known immed’ly, so seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he refused, she could have acted.
3.In climbing into driver's seat, he was next to Mother, so seems she could have put her arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Seems she could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him.

Mother in Front Pass. Seat? <--Does this sees more likely than back seat?
So, both 4 y/o & sib in backseat.
1. When 4 y/o exited infant seat & stood up, seems Mother would have known immed’ly, so seems she could have acted.
2. If she "told him to re-buckle” but he did not, seems she could have acted.
3. Then w 4 y/o climbing into driver's seat, seems she could have just put arm out to prevent him from getting into front seat. Then could have moved him back into infant seat & re-buckled him. More awkward to re-buckle him from front seat? Yes. Impossible? IDK.

Okay, a 4 y/o can be fast, but how in the heck did this happen? Other ideas?

Seems Mother was not alone in this; Father bears responsibility, too.
Victim blaming? Well, both parents have been charged.
Regardless, tragic for the parents too. Losing a child in this horrible way?
Sorry for crummy formatting, typo, grammar, etc. Too late for me.

You have to do a lot of things wrong for this to happen

 

[al66pine]

You have to do a lot of things wrong for this to happen

@everybodhi Thanks for your post. Yes, lots of things going wrong.

But a GUN. LOADED GUN. WITHIN A PRE-SCHOOLER's REACH.

[[[ Okay, I'll lower my voice & see myself out. Walks away.]]]

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I can’t even imagine. I have a four year old. I would be terrified if a loaded gun was anywhere near him, I would have one eye on him and one on the gun at all times. Kids that age are so incredibly quick.

Does anyone else find it odd that he shot himself in the mouth? I feel like instinct would be to pick it up and “pretend” to shoot someone else or out the window at another car.

 

[Lilibet]

Does anyone else find it odd that he shot himself in the mouth? I feel like instinct would be to pick it up and “pretend” to shoot someone else or out the window at another car.

I wonder if there is part of the story left out…Mom wasn’t looking out the window passively, but actively grabbed for the gun. Kids do put things in their mouths, so it could have gone off.

And a negligent parent (father or mother) does not imply evil intent IMO.