GUILTY CO - Charles, 50, & Marilyn Long, 51, murdered, Burlington, 1 March 2011

[chemcopout]

oceanblueyes, my aunt was a 7th day adventist and she was one of the most sweetest people you'd have ever met. what i mean is that compared to other religions, they are stricter religiously. i don't want to come across wrong.

i just need to add i agree that a lot of children would benefit without a tv, or limited use of it. back in the day we'd go outside and play, read books. now it seems children are glued in front of a screen all day. it's sad.

now it's possible this boy didn't like the religious life and articles did state he was bored.
i'm not saying the father was a bad person, i was pointing out the part that they didn't have a television.
the boy was probably exposed to others who had tvs, maybe he grew to resent not having what others had.
he wanted out of his life. what gets me is that he chooses to kill his parents and siblings to get his "out".
it sounds like he was literally experimenting with murder stabbing the younger children. that's a disturbed mind to do something like that.

sometimes you may get a family with say 5 kids, and out of the bunch you have one bad seed. this is my family, and the bad seed is my sister. my wife also have 4 half siblings in her family, and her sister isn't a saint either. farthest from it. what causes it; they've done tests on my sister and found out that the part of her brain that controls impulses was never developed, it was underdeveloped. so she can't control her impulses like the rest of us who do.

now in my sister's case, it's a defect of that could be seen my medical/scientific testing.

if we were to give these young kids that kill these tests, i wonder the results...
i'm not using this as an excuse. my family tried everything for my sister and not a thing worked, still hasn't and she's an young adult now.

the area that controls impulses just never developed. all the other 4 of us are fine.

why is this area not developing and is this the case with these children that kill? if so, what is causing the area not to develop?

it's so strange. that you have one bad apple in a bunch that turned out fine...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks Chemcopout.

I have to agree with you. The ones I have known were not strict with their children per se. They all seemed very lovable, genuine, sweet, passive and soft spoken.

I didn't find them overly religious...such as being fanatical, but yes they did have a deep rooted faith and tried to live their lives accordingly. In fact none of them tried to persuade me to their religion. They knew I am a Baptist and have been all my life. Now here were I live they do have private schools and others not even of their faith have their children go there because they are very hands on with children and seem to know how to get the best results out of each child scholastically. They do not try to persuade the children or the parents to become 7th Day Adventist but do teach respect and morals. I have found them to be highly sociable and outgoing.

I sure hope this boy did not murder his parents and try to murder his siblings simply because he was simply bored.

If I had been given a dollar for everytime I have heard a child say they are 'bored' then I could take a free trip around the world. lol

I don't know what causes these particular children to become murderers. I read an article awhile back where it said in today's time 1 in 5 have a personality disorder of some kind by the time they are 18-21. So for them to be diagnosed with a PD then it had to begin forming much sooner when they were much younger.

All I know is when they go this far over the line of reasonableness and become murderers the juvenile justice system just isn't the answer for these particular type of children.

Imo, so many children in our society have become all about "Me" "Me" "Me", and I think we will see more and more of these cases from here on out, unfortunately.

JMO

 

[chemcopout]

my aunt was the sweetest person, and her daughters turned out perfectly fine, married and had their own children (who in turn are married with children and doing well). when my aunt was old, they had her live with them instead of go to a home. she never pushed her religion on anyone, yet herself was very religious.

what i am thinking is the boy may have seen other children having "more" than he perceived he had. he saw boys with tv, video games, the newest bicycles, what he thought in his mind was better than what he had.

while he should know the difference between right and wrong and life and death, he didn't seem to care. i'm not sure if at that age, he would process the consequences.
maybe he thought he would go to a foster care family, and escape his currrent life, thus obtaining what he thought other boys had that he didn't.

i'm not sure what it is about this "me,me,me" generation. in this case, the boy was homeschooled and didn't seem to be exposed to a lot of tv or such. however it's possible he had different types of exposure to things he began to "want". since he couldn't have he decided to kill his family.

i apologize if this link has been posted earlier:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...VgwdpA?docId=03641e976a8c40d0bfd618722c407242
"And by studying FBI crime data from 1976 to 2007, Heide estimates there were more than 1,900 cases nationwide of children 17 and under killing a parent."

..."Ultimately, experts say, the stunned citizens of the farm town on Colorado's far eastern plains will be offered a probable explanation for the slayings of a churchgoing couple, allegedly by their 12-year-old son."

a probably explantion...

the boy seemed lonely, possibly he thought that his younger siblings got more attention than he did, so he killed them as well.

i don't want to debate with anyone, yet he was homeschooled and aside from that attended church functions. was there any activities in his life that would have him engage with other youth his age aside from church?

in the link to the article it states:

"In cases of a child killing a parent, Heide said, perpetrators often are motivated by fear or terror, a protective instinct for another parent or a sibling, or a sense that a parent is getting in the way of inappropriate behavior. Other factors include mental health issues or adverse reactions to a drug, Heide said.

In attacks on siblings, motivations can include rivalry or jealousy and a desire to strike at a parent through the death of a child, Heide said. But she added that such attacks are rare because of the prevalence of strong bonds between siblings and, in the case of younger children, their vulnerability."

in this scenario, the boy lacked any strong bonds with his siblings. we have no evidence that the parents mistreated him.
he's described as a good kid, more outgoing than his peers. who are they referring to as his peers? other church going children?

obviously something was building up in this boy and he exploded. lord knows what it was..
maybe he really was bored, however i don't buy that excuse.

 

[Mouse]

I don't think it's as simple as saying that Seventh-Day Adventists (or members of any religion) aren't the "type" to be abusive, so that must not be the case here. Every religion has its bad apples--no denomination or sect is immune from abuse, and any religion can have its scripture twisted beyond reason to support an abusive agenda. Nancy Knuckles--who was also murdered by her children--was a Seventh Day Adventist, and in her case, her horrific abuse of her kids was pretty well documented. Her son was sent to a Seventh Day Adventist "work camp" (before his mother's death), and the treatment he received there (and witnessed being doled out to others) was certainly what anyone would consider abusive, as well. Being Seventh-Day Adventist doesn't mean that the parents in this case were abusive, but it also doesn't mean that they weren't. I keep thinking of that quote in To Kill A Mockingbird: "A Bible in the hands of one man can be worse than a bottle of whiskey in the hands of another." (Or something like that. For that matter, the quote is talking about Boo Radley, who was kept sheltered in the house and away from any friends his age, until one day out of nowhere he stabs his fanatically religious father with a pair of scissors.)

I feel like we'll end up finding out that there was some kind of well-hidden abuse going on here. Sure, this might have just been a bratty kid who was pissed that he didn't have an X-box, but statistically, there is much more hidden child abuse that happens behind closed doors than there are bratty children from well-adjusted families who flip out for zero reason. I think there will be mental illness, abuse, family dysfunction or instability...some kind of risk factor. (Not excuse, but risk factor. Combine a risk factor or two with easy access to weapons, and you have a tragedy in the making, regardless of religious affiliation.)

One thing that makes me think this is that we haven't really heard anything from the adult children. Usually in a case where a child kills a parent for insurance, or because of drugs or something, the other siblings are quick to defend the deceased parents as loving and supportive. They're the only other living people who might have some idea of what went on behind closed doors, and as far as I remember, they haven't stepped forward to say anything in defense of their upbringing yet. Could just be that they don't want the publicity, or to say anything that might derail the investigation, but I still find it a little odd considering similar cases.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have seen it totally different, Mouse. The ones who are supportive of the child murder defendant will come out very quickly and publicly announce they are going to stick by them. That has not happened in this case thus far.

They may just be very private people who aren't media hounds and really want to keep their pain silent.

As far as religion..........you are right.....it can happen in any religion......just like it can in families where there are no religious beliefs at all. I still do think it is very rare. Over the years I have rarely ever heard of Seventh Day Adventist being accused of gross abuse, neglect or murder of their children.

I don't know if there will be a abuse. Frankly, I sort of doubt it. Most of the cases we have seen recently weren't because the parents were being abusive but because the child who killed did not get his/her way somehow and flew into a murderous rage.

All I have seen from his family is they are all shocked and have no clue why he would do something like this. His uncle stressed he had talked with all of the family members and I would assume that would include the surviving siblings also. I would imagine they were the first ones he spoke with trying to figure out what in the heck happened.

IMO

 

[forthelost]

He could be mentally ill. Schizophrenia usually has its onset sometime in adolescence.

 

[cluciano63]

He could be mentally ill. Schizophrenia usually has its onset sometime in adolescence.

My brother was about twelve when he says he started hearing voices, although diagnosed until many years later. We (and he) are fortunate (comparatively) in that his voices only told him that he must wash his hands a certain # of times per day, not touch food other people have touched, etc...and are still saying those things to him decades later...but in many cases, the voices are telling the person that others mean harm to them, especially those close to them.

 

[emmcee]

Brother says no sign of trouble:

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_17575674

 

[belimom]

Brother: No warning signs from Colorado boy charged in parents' deaths

(CNN) -- The brother and uncle of a 12-year-old Colorado boy charged in the deaths of his parents and the wounding of two siblings said they are baffled by the allegations.

Jacob Long, 25, brother of the suspect, told CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight" Wednesday that he had stopped by the family's home shortly before the shootings. Children were running around and people were having a good time, he said.

He left and heard about the incident about 20 minutes later. "It's surreal," Jacob said.

.........

Jacob Long said "you couldn't ask for nicer people to be your parents. They were very loving, very outgoing."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/09/colorado.boy.slayings/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[mysticrose]

I am assuming they have evidence showing this child did this horrible act, but reading in this article that the brother had stopped by, then left and 20 mins later heard about this ? Seems odd that in a 20 minute time span that the kids go from playing and laughing to this child killing his parents and try to kill his siblings :waitasec:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/09/colorado.boy.slayings/index.html?hpt=T2

Another aspect that I find of interest is this child stabbed the one sibling in the groin area ? Why there ? I would have to ponder about possible abuse going on perhaps...moo

 

[mysticrose]

Town, experts baffled by shooting of Colo. couple

2011-03-09 01:10:00

Snipped................................................................

Experts who specialize in similar cases say there often is some type of abuse, anti-social behavior or mental health issue underlying those cases. But in Burlington, friends and family insist none of those factors played a part in the life of the Long family, which included seven children, four of them grown.

Kathleen Heide, a criminology professor at the University of South Florida in Tampa, has studied the phenomenon for decades. And by studying FBI crime data from 1976 to 2007, Heide estimates there were more than 1,900 cases nationwide of children 17 and under killing a parent.

What makes the Burlington case unusual is that it may have involved attacks on parents as well as younger siblings, said Heide, who wrote a 1994 book titled, "Why Kids Kill Parents." She said motives generally differ between attacks on parents and attacks on siblings.

In cases of a child killing a parent, Heide said, perpetrators often are motivated by fear or terror, a protective instinct for another parent or a sibling, or a sense that a parent is getting in the way of inappropriate behavior. Other factors include mental health issues or adverse reactions to a drug, Heide said.

In attacks on siblings, motivations can include rivalry or jealousy and a desire to strike at a parent through the death of a child, Heide said. But she added that such attacks are rare because of the prevalence of strong bonds between siblings and, in the case of younger children, their vulnerability

http://www.sify.com/movies/town-exp...f-colo-couple-news-hollywood-ldjaOqaebhb.html

 

[Soulmagent]

Or someone was abusing both of them and he killed his parents so they wouldn't find out. And he tried to kill his siblings so, in his mind, they would be safe from that.

Or an abuser had turn his attention toward the younger boy making he older boy feel rejected hurt used and all arround confused. Then angry and resentful. Just all the way arround confused.

 

[chemcopout]

I am assuming they have evidence showing this child did this horrible act, but reading in this article that the brother had stopped by, then left and 20 mins later heard about this ? Seems odd that in a 20 minute time span that the kids go from playing and laughing to this child killing his parents and try to kill his siblings :waitasec:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/09/colorado.boy.slayings/index.html?hpt=T2

Another aspect that I find of interest is this child stabbed the one sibling in the groin area ? Why there ? I would have to ponder about possible abuse going on perhaps...moo

the stabbing of the other sibling in the groin area is very very disturbing. i really think he may just be born bad and had everyone fooled.
he likely was "experimenting" with murder/sexual deviance by stabbing the younger children.

there seems to have been no warning signs with the boy, and that is very scary. this boy was able to perfectly "assimilate" to how he was "supposed" to be and then pulled a jeckll and hyde and just shot his parents to death and stabbed and experimented on his younger siblings.

they mention he stabbed the younger brother in the groin, yet nothing about any "sexual deviance" he experimented with his younger sister.
i would think at that age young boys would want to experiment to see about the opposite sex, my nephew would get in trouble for looking at .
unless details are being held back, they just mention he stabbed the younger brother in the genitals, which says a lot. although the a lot what it says, i don't know...

what is causing this to happen to children?

 

[chemcopout]

Or an abuser had turn his attention toward the younger boy making he older boy feel rejected hurt used and all arround confused. Then angry and resentful. Just all the way arround confused.

anything is possible, i would guess it be someone with access to the children

it's just very odd, as you'd think he'd go tell his parents. i don't know...
the boy was in a very vulnerable position in the sense he seemed like he really wanted to please everyone and just wanted friends in a way.

the neighbor mentions the boy always came over when he was gardening and offered to help. most 12 year old boys could care less about helping the neighbors with gardening, much less even greeting their neighbors.

they run around here screaming and playing with eachother and that's that if they aren't inside in front of the tv or playing videogames.

it's obvious the boy was bored a lot, he even used boredom as an excuse for the murders.

the boy showed all signs of being a happy, polite, raised up well kid and then boom! he shocks everyone, these types of things are very concerning.

 

[singers]

the stabbing of the other sibling in the groin area is very very disturbing. i really think he may just be born bad and had everyone fooled.
he likely was "experimenting" with murder/sexual deviance by stabbing the younger children.

there seems to have been no warning signs with the boy, and that is very scary. this boy was able to perfectly "assimilate" to how he was "supposed" to be and then pulled a jeckll and hyde and just shot his parents to death and stabbed and experimented on his younger siblings.

they mention he stabbed the younger brother in the groin, yet nothing about any "sexual deviance" he experimented with his younger sister.
i would think at that age young boys would want to experiment to see about the opposite sex, my nephew would get in trouble for looking at .
unless details are being held back, they just mention he stabbed the younger brother in the genitals, which says a lot. although the a lot what it says, i don't know...

what is causing this to happen to children?

I'm waiting to hear what went wrong in this family. The case is baffling. As to what is causing this to happen to children. IMO processed food. Food is becoming more and more processed and our brains need real food, (the raw fresh ingredients), they don't work as well on food that comes out of packets and boxes and has been stored for months like that. Also pollution. jmo you are what you eat.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I honestly don't have an opinion, we have so very little to go on.

The only thing that pops into my head as to why he may have knifed his brother in the groin area. Perhaps the perp, going through puberty was discovering he had homosexual feelings toward other boys? Maybe he experimented with his brother and felt the need to cover it up? Maybe his parents found out or the sibling told? Homosexuality is A HUGE no no in a family like this one. I could almost imagine the confusion, anger, and shame he would have felt if that were the case.

Fortunately, there are two survivors. The answers are there.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

the stabbing of the other sibling in the groin area is very very disturbing. i really think he may just be born bad and had everyone fooled.
he likely was "experimenting" with murder/sexual deviance by stabbing the younger children.

there seems to have been no warning signs with the boy, and that is very scary. this boy was able to perfectly "assimilate" to how he was "supposed" to be and then pulled a jeckll and hyde and just shot his parents to death and stabbed and experimented on his younger siblings.

they mention he stabbed the younger brother in the groin, yet nothing about any "sexual deviance" he experimented with his younger sister.
i would think at that age young boys would want to experiment to see about the opposite sex, my nephew would get in trouble for looking at .
unless details are being held back, they just mention he stabbed the younger brother in the genitals, which says a lot. although the a lot what it says, i don't know...

what is causing this to happen to children?

I truly did not expect to find out that the child lived in an abusive home. I think it is just easier to blame the parents for their own deaths rather than the young child murderer who actually did the crime.

To me what we are seeing is the 'new wave' of children who murders parents or siblings or both. Some children are changing and so are their motives, imo.

I have read countless cases in the recent years of the child killer coming from a well balance good home yet they seem to kill at will when things do not go as they think they should have.

When kids can become murderers because they have their X-Boxes or computer games taken away from them or because they don't like to do chores or they didn't like not being able to hang around with who they wanted to... then to me the motive of these child killers is evolving from what they were in yesteryears. Now we may have to add 'boredom' to that nonsensical list of motives.

I don't pay much mind to the stab to the groin. That could have happened by a wild flailing of the knife. I am sure the younger brother was trying with all his might to get away from his older brother. Trying to kick him if he had him down on the floor etc.

I am very glad that the older siblings will be able to testify to the wonderful life they lived with their parents. The parents truly seemed to be so genuine and loving. At least these children can keep the true legacy of their parents alive.

I think he is another child who has a Conduct Disorder. I think he was able to fool everyone into thinking he was the good son when he was the total opposite. I think he premeditated this and once his older brother had left that day he did it, and called his little siblings into the home, and tried to murder them too.

It shows he has an uncanny skill to deceive and can be a chameleon when it behooves him.

So of course he played the part to the hilt the day his older brother stopped by. He wanted him to suspect nothing and it worked. The older brother thought it was just a normal day in their loving family.

IMO

 

[belimom]

I'm not so sure the stab wound to the groin area in the other boy means anything. You have to think that this boy tried to escape and I think the 12-yr-old was maybe stabbing him as he was trying to get away. As much as we want to make sense of it, it may just mean nothing.

At this point we just don't know...

 

[Soulmagent]

anything is possible, i would guess it be someone with access to the children

it's just very odd, as you'd think he'd go tell his parents. i don't know...
the boy was in a very vulnerable position in the sense he seemed like he really wanted to please everyone and just wanted friends in a way.

the neighbor mentions the boy always came over when he was gardening and offered to help. most 12 year old boys could care less about helping the neighbors with gardening, much less even greeting their neighbors.

they run around here screaming and playing with eachother and that's that if they aren't inside in front of the tv or playing videogames.

it's obvious the boy was bored a lot, he even used boredom as an excuse for the murders.

the boy showed all signs of being a happy, polite, raised up well kid and then boom! he shocks everyone, these types of things are very concerning.

Often we have about kids not telling ther parents. Just because the older son reported a normal home does not mean it is a normal home.

His personality description seems to indicate he had a strong desire to please the adults arround him. I wondered if he had been conditioned to please them. He hasnt been reported to have been mean at all. Normal 12 year olds are not polite all the time.

I, at first thought this was going to be all about boredom until the stabbing infomation came out. Would his boredom make him more subjectable to a predator? I think he is going to show psycological disorders.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Often we have about kids not telling ther parents. Just because the older son reported a normal home does not mean it is a normal home.

His personality description seems to indicate he had a strong desire to please the adults arround him. I wondered if he had been conditioned to please them. He hasnt been reported to have been mean at all. Normal 12 year olds are not polite all the time.

I, at first thought this was going to be all about boredom until the stabbing infomation came out. Would his boredom make him more subjectable to a predator? I think he is going to show psycological disorders.

BBM

I would disagree with you there. Most children want to please their parents. ALL children should be raised to please their parents to some extent and it's a basic need of children to want to or they'd never learn anything! I would bet in this family it's actually a very important part of the family dynamic. It's a biblical teaching they take very seriously. Servants heart, obeying and respecting others is HUGE.

I can tell you without a doubt many children ARE polite ALL the time. Unfortunately, mine isn't, but I will say, outside of my home he is ALWAYS polite and respectful. But IMO it is in the way children are raised, how high the parents set the bar, and what parents are willing to put up with.